CarpathianForest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I guess you feel that this season is gonna be different in scoring goals. Enjoy watching Schneider lose 1-0 and 2-1 games 40 times a year. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk We will lose a lot of games if we don't address our offense, but if we trade Cory for offense and get a less talented goalie in the process it all cancels out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 We will lose a lot of games if we don't address our offense, but if we trade Cory for offense and get a less talented goalie in the process it all cancels out.Not really. First, CS is most likely gonna get 8 years. There isn't a goalie in this league I want for 8 years, especially at large dollars and the way guys plow the net now. Again, without a finite return it's hard to present an argument. However, if in return they get league average goaltending while boosting their anemic offensive play and hopefully by proxy, the PP and SO, I would be all over it. I am amazed that the fan base doesn't see how bad this team really is going into this season.(maybe ownership is in tank mode) Watching the playoffs this year was a real eye opener. What happens if Schneids doesn't sign this summer? What if Jagr disappoints? I think that me rooting for Sislo to make the opening day roster says it all. Again, I am a huge CS supporter, which is why I would like to see what he COULD fetch in a trade, as the return excites me. I bet you Lou is at least listening to offers. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Trading away your best player is ludicrous. There's no argument for it unless he will not re-sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Not really. First, CS is most likely gonna get 8 years. There isn't a goalie in this league I want for 8 years, especially at large dollars and the way guys plow the net now. Again, without a finite return it's hard to present an argument. However, if in return they get league average goaltending while boosting their anemic offensive play and hopefully by proxy, the PP and SO, I would be all over it. I am amazed that the fan base doesn't see how bad this team really is going into this season.(maybe ownership is in tank mode) Watching the playoffs this year was a real eye opener. What happens if Schneids doesn't sign this summer? What if Jagr disappoints? I think that me rooting for Sislo to make the opening day roster says it all. Again, I am a huge CS supporter, which is why I would like to see what he COULD fetch in a trade, as the return excites me. I bet you Lou is at least listening to offers. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk If Schneider is the real deal there is absolutely no way to get the value you would get out of Schneider out of someone else in the free agent market. Just no way. If Schneider is a .925 goalie who plays 65 games, NHL average last year was ,914, that's 19 goals prevented. You can't find that on the open market on offense at the price you would give Schneider. Who the hell is trading for Schneider? Who has an opening at starting goalie? I don't see anybody with one. You name a team, I show you a starting goalie. And in addition, how can the Devils get back what they just traded for him? He has a year left on his contract. Part of the reason Schneider was so valuable is because he had 2 more years remaining on an awesome deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 If Schneider is the real deal there is absolutely no way to get the value you would get out of Schneider out of someone else in the free agent market. Just no way. If Schneider is a .925 goalie who plays 65 games, NHL average last year was ,914, that's 19 goals prevented. You can't find that on the open market on offense at the price you would give Schneider. Who the hell is trading for Schneider? Who has an opening at starting goalie? I don't see anybody with one. You name a team, I show you a starting goalie. And in addition, how can the Devils get back what they just traded for him? He has a year left on his contract. Part of the reason Schneider was so valuable is because he had 2 more years remaining on an awesome deal. It's easy to say no way and be comfortable with a great tender like CS between the pipes while watching his team struggle to score 2 goals a night. What is the plan? What is the means of fixing this offensive drought? How? Is the plan to shop the clearance rack each July? I know what the owners are gonna say... tank it up. The team has no assets and NO ONE wants to come here unless they are overpaid or given additional years. This team is screwed and so are we as fans. The lean years begin now...Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 It's easy to say no way and be comfortable with a great tender like CS between the pipes while watching his team struggle to score 2 goals a night. What is the plan? What is the means of fixing this offensive drought? How? Is the plan to shop the clearance rack each July? I know what the owners are gonna say... tank it up. The team has no assets and NO ONE wants to come here unless they are overpaid or given additional years. This team is screwed and so are we as fans. The lean years begin now... Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk This team is screwed if they trade Schneider, you are right. The means of fixing the offense is via trades, free agency, and the draft. You don't have to have a great offense if you have a great goaltender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 hystyk28 does make a good point about UFAs. Despite arguing about it I'm still firm in my belief that we have difficulty attracting free agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 hystyk28 does make a good point about UFAs. Despite arguing about it I'm still firm in my belief that we have difficulty attracting free agents. Totally agree, they way overpaid Jagr and Zidlicky this offseason, in years and dollars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Totally agree, they way overpaid Jagr and Zidlicky this offseason, in years and dollars Conversely I can say, "Ah I stand corrected. Apparently overpaying in years and dollars to Clowe was because he really wanted to come here and CS' veiled WTF response to being traded to NJ was discreet enthusiasm." Zids wanted to come here. Jagr is the premier player on our team. I'm sure that helped his decision a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Yeah no ufas ever sign here... Just in the past four seasons, Kovalchuk Jagr Zidlicky Tallinder Volchenkov Ryder Clowe. All players who were coveted during their respected free agency summers. I'm probably missing a few others as well. You also can't use the overpaying excuse because that is exactly what free agency is. Wanting free agents but not wanting to overpay for them is a contradiction, usually can't have it both ways. Edited June 25, 2014 by Zubie#8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 We threw money and terms at Clowe, Kovalchuk and Volchenkov. Which team is hardly ever mentioned when big name FAs come up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 We threw money and terms at Clowe, Kovalchuk and Volchenkov. Which team is hardly ever mentioned when big name FAs come up? I edited my post above but I will say it again, overpaying is exactly what free agency is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I edited my post above but I will say it again, overpaying is exactly what free agency is. I ask that you consider the free agents that left New Jersey in the past 9 seasons or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas0nMacIsaac Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Vokoun for a backup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I ask that you consider the free agents that left New Jersey in the past 9 seasons or so.Gionta Gomez Martin Clarkson Neidermayer has been talked at nauseum and four of the five weren't worth the contracts they got, Lou wouldn't overpay for them (you dont like overpayments so you should be fine with that). Parise is the biggest loss but he made his mind up and wanted to go home, I dont see him making a different decision if he was on a different team. Kovalchuk is a unique example so that doesn't help your argument. It is what it is, this team has signed a lot of notable free agents as of late. Its all about the money. Edited June 25, 2014 by Zubie#8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Gionta Gomez Martin Clarkson Neidermayer has been talked at nauseum and four of the five weren't worth the contracts they got, Lou wouldn't overpay for them. Parise is the biggest loss but he made his mind up and wanted to go home, I dont see him making a different decision if he was on a different team. Kovalchuk is a unique example so that doesn't help your argument. It is what it is, this team has signed a lot of notable free agents as of late. Its all about the money. Again, show me even rumors that a notable free agent has waived their NTC/NMC clause to be traded to several teams including NJ. Your list of free agents that left NJ far outweighs what we've gained as far as impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Again, show me even rumors that a notable free agent has waived their NTC/NMC clause to be traded to several teams including NJ. Your list of free agents that left NJ far outweighs what we've gained as far as impact. The discussion was free agency, waiving of no trade clauses to go to the Devils is an entirely different situation with many different variables and it is not a usual occcurence for any NHL team. Its a trade, its such a different discussion.EDIT: and as far as impact goes it doesn't change anything. Free agents pan out and sometimes they don't. And if you have forgotten Zubrus Kovalchuk Zidlicky (waived ntc) Tallinder Volchenkov and Hedberg were on the 2012 Devils team that made it to the Final. So thats a good impact in my opinion. Edited June 25, 2014 by Zubie#8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The discussion was free agency, waiving of no trade clauses to go to the Devils is an entirely different situation with many different variables and it is not a usual occcurence for any NHL team. Its a trade, its such a different discussion. I was aware of that as I was typing but I included it anyway. However, the second part of my post is true: Look at what we lost compared to what we signed in regards to free agency and there's definitely an imbalance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I was aware of that as I was typing but I included it anyway. However, the second part of my post is true: Look at what we lost compared to what we signed in regards to free agency and there's definitely an imbalance. But look at why they left. You can't complain that we have to overpay and then complain that players left because we wouldn't. Free agency is overpayment. That's the name of the game. How many big free agents signed reasonable contracts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I was aware of that as I was typing but I included it anyway. However, the second part of my post is true: Look at what we lost compared to what we signed in regards to free agency and there's definitely an imbalance. There will always be an imbalance, in a good or bad way. We lost a lot of good players but we gained Zubrus Kovalchuk Tallinder Zidliky Volchenkov and they helped the team to the Cup. What if Ryder Clowe and Brunner panned out this season? Maybe you'd have a different opinion. It's all about adapting, lets see what happens this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Again, show me even rumors that a notable free agent has waived their NTC/NMC clause to be traded to several teams including NJ. Your list of free agents that left NJ far outweighs what we've gained as far as impact.Zidlicky. And we were the only team he wanted to go to.This idea of us being Siberia is way overstated. If it was that undesirable you wouldn't have had Marty staying 20 years, Elias playing his whole career here and other alums constantly coming back. Jagr could have wrote his own ticket almost anywhere after last year but he came back. Hell even Zubrus has signed here for nine years over two contracts. Edited June 25, 2014 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 NJ is clearly middle of the pack as NHL destinations go. It's near New York, taxes aren't as bad as Canada, the weather isn't great but not Canada bad, and if you like not being hassled everywhere you go that's a plus too. There's been a lot of stability at the GM spot in NJ also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 NJ is just not that sexy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Vokoun for a backup Doesn't he have some health issues? I'd be okay on a one yr incentive laden deal provided his health checks out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) NJ is clearly middle of the pack as NHL destinations go. It's near New York, taxes aren't as bad as Canada, the weather isn't great but not Canada bad, and if you like not being hassled everywhere you go that's a plus too. There's been a lot of stability at the GM spot in NJ also. Found something we agree on finally. While everybody thinks all the Canadian players want to play in Canada I've recalled reading or hearing just as many that would prefer not to. Edited June 25, 2014 by coldply123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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