Leafs, Devs, Bruins trying to land Bouwmeester..

[overtime98]

Just to play Devils advocate: Why are people just cooing over Boumeester? Are we overrating him?

He hasn't reallly accomplished anything IMO to warrant some of this praise.

Is he that good? He has done nothing in Florida.

Talk to me:

I agree. I want to know the same thing. He averages 35 points a year....

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3103/c...2Q29xV67vRivLYF

Why do some want to trade Gionta and Zajac for a defenseman that has never scored more than 15 goals a season and never had more than 46 points in a year?

Besides in my earlier post Florida has said they do not intend to trade him. I believe a Florida newspaper quoting the GM before I believe Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate) and the rumors.

[Devils Pride 26]

They would want Parise straight up.

[dali]

i don't really think the bruins or leafs have what it takes to land bouwmeester either.

Leafs are probably out, unless there

[overtime98]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/colu...bouwmeester.htm

Well this answers my question... Sounds like he has alot of potential to be a top 4 defenseman and a leader on any team... Just hasnt really shown it on Florida.

Still It doesnt look like Florida intends to trade him...... It sounds like they would like to make him the next captain since Jokinen left....

[Sharifijanov2099]

In terms of the money, I don't really think that's where the deal falls. I read an article the other day stating Jay B. would likely go to arbitration. So sure, if FLA can lock him up at 6m, they probably will. If he goes to arb and gets awarded a 1 yr deal, like Gomez, he's gone, and they get nothing out of him except one more year in Florida, which won't be meaningful for a team like that.

So, Gio's 4m I don't think is the issue. The issue is about 'what can you get to offset losing a player for nothing' and that all depends on what else every other team is offering. Gio, a top 6 forward (who they could opt to try and resign), Corrente, a prospect, and perhaps a pick really isn't terrible if you're planning on losing the guy for nothing.

NO, Florida wouldn't ask for Parise. Come on. That's just silly. You can't ask for Parise for a guy you might be losing for nothing, and I think that's what's being overlooked here. Florida may enter desperation mode if they can't get the guy signed. If Jay B. were a straight up trade not considering arbitration, then yes, we'd have to pay a lot more, but he's not (as of now).

And no, I don't think we're over-rating him. He had something like 46 and 43 points a few years back. Last two years he's scored 12 and 15 goals. He's 6'4, rushes the play, plays 27 minutes a game, and is really serviceable in all areas. He hasn't cracked 50 points yet, but he's only 24, has been in the league 5 yrs already, and is primed to take that next huge step into becoming a superstar. That's why I think he's worth it in the short and in the long term.

[Devils731]

I agree. I want to know the same thing. He averages 35 points a year....

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3103/c...2Q29xV67vRivLYF

Why do some want to trade Gionta and Zajac for a defenseman that has never scored more than 15 goals a season and never had more than 46 points in a year?

Paul Martin is 2 years older and had never scored more than 37 points in a season but we all know that as a defenseman Martin is very good.

Also, Florida has been a very poor offensive team so that is going to hamper JBO offensive numbers but the guy is a 25 year old workhorse of a defenseman who can play both ways. There are not too many of those in the league.

[overtime98]

Paul Martin is 2 years older and had never scored more than 37 points in a season but we all know that as a defenseman Martin is very good.

Also, Florida has been a very poor offensive team so that is going to hamper JBO offensive numbers but the guy is a 25 year old workhorse of a defenseman who can play both ways. There are not too many of those in the league.

I know I found an article from years back in the usa today and now I understand what Jay bo can bring to a team....

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

I don't know. The Devils opportunity to get a Puck Mover was in FA. FLA would probably want at least Zajac + a young player + Pick. Which is a large price to pay given our team's makeup. I think I would do it though, and then try to move Gionta for a natural center. Giving up Zajac hurts but you're getting one of the best young dmen in the game. It's a move that has to be done, given our teams deficiencies.

[Sharifijanov2099]

Just to play Devils advocate: Why are people just cooing over Boumeester? Are we overrating him?

He hasn't reallly accomplished anything IMO to warrant some of this praise.

Is he that good? He has done nothing in Florida.

Talk to me:

I also disagree he hasnt proven anything in Florida. The guy plays a ton of hockey out there, nearly half the game every game, is all over the place. And yes, while he's a career minus (+-) player, he's on a terrible team, and he was +23 or so a few years back. I think he's shown exactly what he's been expected to show... he was very young when he came in, had big expectations, and is now starting to fill them. If we have any other defensemen on our team that can score 15 goals or so, let me know. I trust, JBO will be an elite player within the next 3 years, and in the right situation, maybe immediately.

Edited July 24, 2008 by bekim

[MantaRay]

I also disagree he hasnt proven anything in Florida. The guy plays a ton of hockey out there, nearly half the game every game, is all over the place. And yes, while he's a career minus (+-) player, he's on a terrible team, and he was +23 or so a few years back. I think he's shown exactly what he's been expected to show... he was very young when he came in, had big expectations, and is now starting to fill them. If we have any other defensemen on our team that can score 15 goals or so, let me know. I trust, JBO will be an elite player within the next 3 years, and in the right situation, maybe immediately.

That's valid.

There aren't too many elite D-men in the league (maybe 10 players total). Boumeester isn't one of them right now, but if you have a chance to get one, that has the potential we have to. It took 10 years for Pronger to blossom into an elite D man.

am not sure if he is worth Nieds or Lidstrom type of a contract, but then again Campbell gets paid the same as the Norris Trophy candidate now. At $4 million I say YES, but he is going to arbitration. I think what we deal is dependent upon our camp right now. Florida is going to want youth or picks.

[Crisis]

The Florida Panthers trade Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek and a 6th round (Sergei Shirokov) for Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Allen and Alex Auld.

Maybe they blow it again.

[MantaRay]

Maybe they blow it again.

That was a Mike Keenan deal. We won't get the same deal from Martin.

Martin just robbed Phoenix, in the Joiknen deal so we aren't dealing with a fool. But Ballard makes Boumeester more expendable.

Edited July 24, 2008 by MantaRay

[Triumph]

I don't know. The Devils opportunity to get a Puck Mover was in FA. FLA would probably want at least Zajac + a young player + Pick. Which is a large price to pay given our team's makeup. I think I would do it though, and then try to move Gionta for a natural center. Giving up Zajac hurts but you're getting one of the best young dmen in the game. It's a move that has to be done, given our teams deficiencies.

how are you going to move gionta for a center? you're either going to get an expiring contract (of which there aren't many), or a young player with 3rd line potential. you can get better than that at the deadline but you're not going to both improve the team and get rid of gionta at that point.

the problem is that you have to pay bouwmeester close to what he's worth on the market anyway AND ship a bunch of players there who are low-cost, filling them in with unsavory alternatives. it's worth noting that lou lams has rarely made a trade of this scope without dealing away players he thought were expendable due to his minor league depth. by dealing zajac and say, corrente, you really gut the minor league system AGAIN for 2 years, and the devils' system totally lacks centers who are anywhere near the NHL.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Triumph

[SC Devs Fan]

They would want Parise straight up.

+1

You don't trade a star for backups and a guy who would be leaving in a year.

Edited July 24, 2008 by SC Devs Fan

[MantaRay]

+1

You don't trade a star for backups and a guy who would be leaving in a year.

"star" is very subjective. And it depends on the market what you get back.

[nmigliore]

Lou isn't doing anything, its Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate). Dont get hopes up.

['7']

new jersey just can't be a part of these discussions. not now and probably not for a long time - with all the older players they signed, they are going to need to keep all their younger players around to replace them.

zajac corrente and a 1st would have to be where the discussion started - and then gionta would be moved somewhere for something like a 2nd. that's too much, what with madden and holik both UFA at the end of the year.

i don't really think the bruins or leafs have what it takes to land bouwmeester either.

well, if the Bruins and Leafs don't have what it takes, and Bouwmeester has asked for a trade, wouldn't that take some leverage away from Florida? They can't be as picky anymore.

It may take Corrente, a 1st and a 4th. Or at worst Corrente, a 1st and a 2nd. And then of course Gionta can be used to get that 2nd back.

[Triumph]

"star" is very subjective. And it depends on the market what you get back.

Florida has all the leverage here. Bouwmeester can either go to arbitration (not sure if he is or not), hold out, or try to sign an offer sheet with another team, entitling the panthers to a ton of draft picks.

Now they might think that a package of younger players is better for them - and that might be true. But New Jersey really doesn't have that to offer. Again, while Vrana is listed on HF as a center, I don't think he stays there, and that's really it. They drafted a bunch of centers this year who won't be NHL ready for 3 years at least.

[MantaRay]

Florida has all the leverage here. Bouwmeester can either go to arbitration (not sure if he is or not), hold out, or try to sign an offer sheet with another team, entitling the panthers to a ton of draft picks.

Now they might think that a package of younger players is better for them - and that might be true. But New Jersey really doesn't have that to offer. Again, while Vrana is listed on HF as a center, I don't think he stays there, and that's really it. They drafted a bunch of centers this year who won't be NHL ready for 3 years at least.

Exactly, circumstances favor Florida in this instance, but many times GM's just want to or have to get rid of players as a salary cap dump.

[Triumph]

well, if the Bruins and Leafs don't have what it takes, and Bouwmeester has asked for a trade, wouldn't that take some leverage away from Florida? They can't be as picky anymore.

It may take Corrente, a 1st and a 4th. Or at worst Corrente, a 1st and a 2nd. And then of course Gionta can be used to get that 2nd back.

That's assuming that they're the only teams in the discussion, which is patently absurd. There's 20 teams that would be interested in Bouwmeester at that price. Boston can fob off David Krejci and Milan Lucic and get Bouwmeester if that's what it takes.

Manta, the team just got rid of Olli Jokinen. They have to be close to the salary floor.

[brodeurrocks]

What do the Leafs have left to give?

Nothing, that is why there is no chance they will get him.

[Sharifijanov2099]

Florida has all the leverage here. Bouwmeester can either go to arbitration (not sure if he is or not), hold out, or try to sign an offer sheet with another team, entitling the panthers to a ton of draft picks.

I would say Florida only has the "leverage", simply because it is their player whose rights they own; but I wouldn't say Florida has all the "leveraging" power.

The reason trade rumors are popping up is due to the possible arbitration. Sure, Florida has no obligation to trade him before arbitration, and then can hold on to him during the season too (if say he gets awarded a 1-yr deal).

But in-season trades are rare, and most teams are entirely willing to wait and wait once the season has begun to see how their team performs (instead of taking on added cap weight), which is why most wait until the trade deadline (less cap hit, less money to pay) before trading for players.

That is why I feel Florida may field offers now, prior to the season, prior to arbitration, to make certain they get a decent return on their player - but by no means do I consider that 'all the leverage' since their leverage is only as good as teams are willing to make good offers. If 20 teams aren't willing to give up a 1st rounder or a top line player, Florida will have to settle for something less.

As always, teams consider the offers and decide what's best for their organization. It really wouldn't surprise me to see JBO go for a package like the one's I've suggested. It wouldn't surprise me to see him go for a better package either, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as Florida being able to get an amazing return on a guy who may well go to arbitration (thus, other teams risking not being able to resign him either).

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

how are you going to move gionta for a center? you're either going to get an expiring contract (of which there aren't many), or a young player with 3rd line potential. you can get better than that at the deadline but you're not going to both improve the team and get rid of gionta at that point.

the problem is that you have to pay bouwmeester close to what he's worth on the market anyway AND ship a bunch of players there who are low-cost, filling them in with unsavory alternatives. it's worth noting that lou lams has rarely made a trade of this scope without dealing away players he thought were expendable due to his minor league depth. by dealing zajac and say, corrente, you really gut the minor league system AGAIN for 2 years, and the devils' system totally lacks centers who are anywhere near the NHL.

Worst comes to worst, Elias, Rolston, Madden, and Holik (or even FEDOROV???) can play center. If you look to move Gionta you can find someone like Robert Lang, Todd White, or maybe even Jochen Hecht if Buffalo wants some cap flexibility (signed until 2012 cap hit of 3.525). I'm just throwing names out there but basically Zajac is replaceable and the team becomes much more dangerous with Bouwmeester in there. The farm system has been depleted for quite a while, Bouwmeester would be more valuable to our future than Zajac/Correntte/ and a First ever would be.

At the very least I'd be talking to his agent with a nice offer sheet (~7 mill for 7 years)

edit: or maybe you even sell gionta at the deadline for prospects on other teams you like, and just go into the playoffs with Elias,Rolston, Madden, and Holik up the middle.

Edited July 24, 2008 by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

[Triumph]

any chance we can add multi-quote on the next board update, DM? it's a great feature.

Anyway, bekim, in response to your post - Bouwmeester is UFA at the end of this year, I believe, if he re-ups for only one more season. However, whatever team signs him is going to know they can get him to re-up for a long-term deal - it's the only thing that makes sense. They're going to have ot be able to check with Bouwmeester's people before they make a deal, otherwise it's foolishness.

Worst comes to worst, Elias, Rolston, Madden, and Holik (or even FEDOROV???) can play center. If you look to move Gionta you can find someone like Robert Lang, Todd White, or maybe even Jochen Hecht if Buffalo wants some cap flexibility (signed until 2012 cap hit of 3.525). I'm just throwing names out there but basically Zajac is replaceable and the team becomes much more dangerous with Bouwmeester in there. The farm system has been depleted for quite a while, Bouwmeester would be more valuable to our future than Zajac/Correntte/ and a First ever would be.

At the very least I'd be talking to his agent with a nice offer sheet (~7 mill for 7 years)

edit: or maybe you even sell gionta at the deadline for prospects on other teams you like, and just go into the playoffs with Elias,Rolston, Madden, and Holik up the middle.

I am not talking about this year. After this year, Holik and Madden are UFA, and both are old. You've got literally nothing in the system with which to replace them except Rod Pelley. The team as a whole is rather old, and there's a lot of contracts that don't expire for a long time. You throw out Zajac and Corrente and a 1st, and you are throwing out the team's future - you've got Rolston, White and Salvador's contracts all expiring in the same year, then Elias and Zubrus's the year after. That's a lot of sub-optimal performance you'll be getting out of all of them - you desperately need younger players to fill those gaps. Zajac nor Corrente won't be a cheap salary at that point, true, but he will still be an RFA, which is cheap enough - there's no upcoming players to fill the void of an Elias. Bouwmeester just adds yet another enormous salary to a team that's committed a lot of dollars down the road, leaving it almost no flexibility when it comes to locking up Parise and/or Martin long term - one of them would be sacrificed, and then you've got no players in the system with which to replace them. The Devils' system as it is appears to be generating a lot of depth-ish players - great for a team that has a lot of dollars committed to top end talents - you'd be ripping away the top layer of that with no backup plan in place. While I think Bouwmeester would make New Jersey the favorite in the East for the Stanley Cup this season, it would seriously hurt the team down the road.

edit - also i think you're all ignoring the fact that the devils are right up against the cap now and would have to drop gionta and vishnevski right away if they got bouwmeester.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Triumph

[Sharifijanov2099]

any chance we can add multi-quote on the next board update, DM? it's a great feature.

Anyway, bekim, in response to your post - Bouwmeester is UFA at the end of this year, I believe, if he re-ups for only one more season. However, whatever team signs him is going to know they can get him to re-up for a long-term deal - it's the only thing that makes sense. They're going to have ot be able to check with Bouwmeester's people before they make a deal, otherwise it's foolishness.

The foolishness of GMs doesn't seem to concern itself at the trade deadline, when picks and prospects are given for players who often end up not re-signing (Campbell, Hossa, etc.)... it wouldn't surprise me any more at this time of year then it would at the deadline. All the same, Lou Lams is not likely one of those GMs who will make an uncertain deal unless he's certain it will really put us over the top, so in his case, I do think he'd try to get pre-knowledge, but that still doesn't mean Florida has all the chips, as it were. New Jersey, on the other hand, has a good team, will most always make the playoffs, and can afford to do nothing more going into this season if they like (and probably will do). So, it all depends on Florida's desperation. If they're worried enough, desperate enough, that they won't be able to resign JBO, or worried that a trade deadline deal wouldn't be as lucrative as a pre-season trade, they'll ship him off now.

Of course, also likely he could just re-sign long term with the Panthers, but I don't know how much he likes it there or thinks he can win anything on that team. I know that I'd want out. On the bright side, if JBO came to Jersey, this board could have a whole additional conversation about jersey numbers.