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Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!)


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Poll: Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!) (130 member(s) have cast votes)

When will we see hockey?

  1. Oct 12 (10 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  2. Nov 12 (19 votes [14.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.62%

  3. Dec 12 (26 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  4. Jan 13 (33 votes [25.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.38%

  5. Feb 13 (1 votes [0.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.77%

  6. Mar 13 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Apr 13 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Oct 13 (14 votes [10.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.77%

  9. Never (27 votes [20.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.77%

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#101 aylbert

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:54 PM

The players need the money more than the owners. The players will lose again... at best, the players will accept a deal slightly worse than the one they agreed to last time. Careers are short, they cant recoup the lost funds. Take your paycheck and play.

No employer can exist without its an employees. My job earns 2.4mm per employee. Im not asking for 1.2m
m.

Ice replacement players for all I care...
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#102 Satans Hockey

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:47 AM

Ice replacement players for all I care...


I'd be fine with this.

Both sides aren't even talking and the first pre-season games for the league are suppose to start sunday.

I saw Ottawa was offering season ticket holders 5% interest if fans don't get their money back. I think the Devils might have done something similar back in 04-05 but I can't remember cause I asked for a refund and will be doing the same this year.

Edited by Satans Hockey, 18 September 2012 - 08:48 AM.

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#103 NJDevs4978

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:50 AM

The players need the money more than the owners. The players will lose again... at best, the players will accept a deal slightly worse than the one they agreed to last time. Careers are short, they cant recoup the lost funds. Take your paycheck and play.

No employer can exist without its an employees. My job earns 2.4mm per employee. Im not asking for 1.2m
m.

Ice replacement players for all I care...


People don't pay money to watch you work either, you can't compare sports to 'normal' labor issues.
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#104 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:30 AM

I highly doubt we will see replacement players. Moreover, I will not pay to see replacement players unless the tickets are severely discounted to something like $5-10 per game.

A bunch of teams are offering 2-10% interest rates if you keep your season ticket money with them throughout the lockout (big surprise, the Wild are offering 10% to keep the $$$ from the 4000 new STH's they picked up after signing Parise and Suter). I haven't heard anything from the Devils, but they will have to offer something. I'm betting somewhere in the 2% range starting from the first missed regular season game.
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#105 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:35 AM

People don't pay money to watch you work either, you can't compare sports to 'normal' labor issues.


I'm gonna install bleachers in my office and see how my attendance is.
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#106 GoArmySports

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:38 AM

I'm gonna install bleachers in my office and see how my attendance is.


I'm sure this idea at some point has come up at an ESPN business meeting.
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#107 aylbert

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:56 AM

People don't pay money to watch you work either, you can't compare sports to 'normal' labor issues.

People pay to see my output though... it ticks across terminals and TV screens, etc.

NHL players are elite at their profession (compared to the endless ranks of semi-pros, etc) , and deserve to be paid salaries that far exceed the 'common' worker. Just as the senior execs are compensated far greater than I am. I just don't see how they deserve the majority of the revenue over the owners who are the ones invested in the team, and carry the burden of risk... I would argue even a 50/50 split is too much, but I'll leave that for the next CBA.
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#108 SterioDesign

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:35 AM

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I hate stuff like that on fb that people are sharing...

i mean no disrespect to the troops and all i have friends in the army but geez. Nobody had a gun to their head forcing them to sign in the army, they knew the salary and risks. Then they say that the owners and players are greedy, of course they are lol but geez, how many soldiers are REALLY in the army to "serve their country and bla bla" they joined cause they make a lot of money, they get their education paid, they'll have good retirement money, etc etc you really dont have to be the smartest tool in the shed to be able to join the army. In the NHL its all contracts, you never know whats up beyond your contract and thats something they should have in mind before posting and crying with those comparisons.

Also... take lets say 100 10years old kids with a dream of playing in the NHL, then take 100 10 years old kids dreaming of being in the army (if that even exist) and see at 22 years old where they are... maybe... MAYBE there will be one of those kids in the NHL but probly not, while maybe 90 of the other bunch will be in the army. Way way wayyyy easier to get in the army than making the NHL its taking so much talent and sacrifice to get there and those guys are living their dream and its taken away from them, the soldiers went to afganistan for their paychecks, who's really greedy in that case? why should i feel sorry for the soldiers seriously? they had a choice, NHL players also have a choice to take less to play now but its totally unfair so they are fighting for it.

anyways

/rant

those shares are just pissing me off so bad

Edited by SterioDesign, 18 September 2012 - 11:36 AM.

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#109 NJDevs4978

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:58 AM

Plus there's no 'strike', the players aren't striking, the owners locked them out.
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#110 aylbert

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:20 PM

A contract is a contract in the NHL, sometimes.


If I was a player... rollbacks and escrow are the biggest thorns in my side.
I have a contract that I need to abide to. I can't hold out for a new deal like in the NFL.
The owners shouldn't be able to escape either on paying me... other than a buyout which was already accepted.
(I think it should be full cash value, netting only paper cap savings for the team the following year)

If I had a sh!tty agent that convinced me to sign under my value, that sucks for me.
If a GM signed me to a deal over my head, sucks to be him.

The NHL owners should be able to determine how much of their money they want to spend on the players and how much they want to reinvest or spend on jets... it doesn't matter. If the players don't like it, they don't have to sign. They can play in the KHL or other elite league... We're headed there soon anyway.

/rant

those shares are just pissing me off so bad

Right on!

Edited by aylbert, 18 September 2012 - 12:20 PM.

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#111 Triumph

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:45 PM

The NHL owners should be able to determine how much of their money they want to spend on the players and how much they want to reinvest or spend on jets... it doesn't matter. If the players don't like it, they don't have to sign. They can play in the KHL or other elite league... We're headed there soon anyway.


But then the owners lose. The players are the product - replacement players would never work.

What I find particularly loathsome about this lockout is that it's the big market teams who signed the players to the big contracts and it's the big market teams instigating the lockout. I could see if there were a split, or some teams who didn't agree with what some other teams were doing, and let's all get this sorted out - but it's a cash grab. It's signing players to contracts and then trying to devalue those contracts or else.
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#112 Daniel

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:00 PM

But then the owners lose. The players are the product - replacement players would never work.

What I find particularly loathsome about this lockout is that it's the big market teams who signed the players to the big contracts and it's the big market teams instigating the lockout. I could see if there were a split, or some teams who didn't agree with what some other teams were doing, and let's all get this sorted out - but it's a cash grab. It's signing players to contracts and then trying to devalue those contracts or else.


I haven't followed the position of all owners, but it appears that at least Dolan has expressed a willingness to keep the status quo. Otherwise, doesn't seem to me that there's much of a big market/small market divide.

Don't take it too hard Rafterman. It's just business.
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#113 devilsfan26

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:25 PM

If they lose an entire season again, "Season Not Played" will be engraved on the Cup as many times as "Philadelphia Flyers."

With that said, I think the Stanley Cup transcends the NHL and should be competed for every year regardless of what the NHL does. I know the NHL won't let it happen but there should be some sort of tournament or something where elite players can compete for the Cup. Obviously it wouldn't be the same as winning it in the NHL but to me, the Stanley Cup should be competed for every year. Can you imagine what Lord Stanley would think of his trophy not even being played for because of one league's stupid labor dispute? This is not at all what he had in mind.
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#114 Triumph

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:38 PM

I haven't followed the position of all owners, but it appears that at least Dolan has expressed a willingness to keep the status quo. Otherwise, doesn't seem to me that there's much of a big market/small market divide.

Don't take it too hard Rafterman. It's just business.


The small markets don't have a choice. They also want salaries to come down and are willing to get on board with however the big market teams want to do it.
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#115 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

panthers laid off their mascot, i'm having a hard time being compassionate after the playoffs :noclue:
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#116 aylbert

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:15 PM

But then the owners lose. The players are the product - replacement players would never work.

The owners lose, but the players lose more. Replacement players are a gimmick and more of an 'fu' to the players. I don't honestly believe they would go that route. But the NHL unfortunately does not have the impact the NFL has, etc. That said, they can recover quicker because they have a smaller, but hardcore fan base. Fans are pissed. But once games are back on, they will return very quickly. The casual fans, less so... but then again, the casual fan really has less impact in hockey than it does in any other major sport.

The owners should just play hardball, get what they want and stop this nonsense of trying to do it over a couple CBA's.
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#117 Triumph

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:43 PM

The owners lose, but the players lose more. Replacement players are a gimmick and more of an 'fu' to the players. I don't honestly believe they would go that route. But the NHL unfortunately does not have the impact the NFL has, etc. That said, they can recover quicker because they have a smaller, but hardcore fan base. Fans are pissed. But once games are back on, they will return very quickly. The casual fans, less so... but then again, the casual fan really has less impact in hockey than it does in any other major sport.

The owners should just play hardball, get what they want and stop this nonsense of trying to do it over a couple CBA's.


Sigh. Replacement players don't work, that's why they won't go that route. They didn't work in the NFL, and they wouldn't've worked in MLB. The players ARE the game.

The NHL has clearly gotten into a pattern whereby they lock out the players, make a bunch of demands, then realize that they totally underestimated themselves and the market and again they have to return to the drawing board. And that's why I can't get behind this - it's utter horsesh!t. Sure, the players can't stay at 57% of revenue, I think we all know that. However, it doesn't mean that all the money that the players give back end up in the pockets of the 6 most wealthy teams, whose wealth largely comes from government subsidies of arena costs and artificial market protections, and that's where it will mostly end up. The smaller markets will lose more because of a lockout - their hold on their fanbases is already tenuous - while the big markets have got plenty of corporations and wealthy fans willing to pony up.

The NHL is in this mess because it underestimated how popular its game is. I bet they never thought they would even hit the 57% revenue threshold, or that the players would vote for the 5% cap inflator every single year.

Edited by Triumph, 18 September 2012 - 03:46 PM.

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#118 devilsrule33

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:38 AM

Sigh. Replacement players don't work, that's why they won't go that route. They didn't work in the NFL, and they wouldn't've worked in MLB. The players ARE the game.

The NHL has clearly gotten into a pattern whereby they lock out the players, make a bunch of demands, then realize that they totally underestimated themselves and the market and again they have to return to the drawing board. And that's why I can't get behind this - it's utter horsesh!t. Sure, the players can't stay at 57% of revenue, I think we all know that. However, it doesn't mean that all the money that the players give back end up in the pockets of the 6 most wealthy teams, whose wealth largely comes from government subsidies of arena costs and artificial market protections, and that's where it will mostly end up. The smaller markets will lose more because of a lockout - their hold on their fanbases is already tenuous - while the big markets have got plenty of corporations and wealthy fans willing to pony up.

The NHL is in this mess because it underestimated how popular its game is. I bet they never thought they would even hit the 57% revenue threshold, or that the players would vote for the 5% cap inflator every single year.


Well said. Really couldn't have said it better myself.
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#119 thefiestygoat

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:17 AM

2 more Devils jump overseas:

https://twitter.com/...438361365307393

"The latest NHLer to join Jaromir Jagr's HC Kladno? #devils defenceman Marek Zidlicky."

Elias played there before he came over to North America in the early 90's. I wonder if he will join his friend there?

https://twitter.com/...437665786109952

"I'm told New Jersey Devils defenseman Anton Volchenkov is finalizing a deal with CSKA, and will join Datsyuk & Bryzgalov."
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#120 Zubie#8

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:51 PM

Just the beginning...

NEW YORK – The National Hockey League announced today the cancellation of the 2012 preseason schedule through Sept. 30. In addition, the 2012 Kraft Hockeyville preseason game, scheduled for Oct. 3 in Belleville, Ontario, has been postponed to 2013.


http://www.nhl.com/i...641879&cmpid=fb
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