NJDevs4978 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 how long do you think it takes to negotiate an NHL contract? If it's Brodeur, probably five minutes. If it's Kovy an entire offseason. Evidently Zach's deal will take two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 how long do you think it takes to negotiate an NHL contract? Depends on the player / situation i guess Could go from a few hours to a few days/weeks i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolts Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Regarding Lou signing Parise I do believe up until he got rid of BR's contract which was what 5 mil a year and took on hunter saving 3mil he could not offer Parise a short term deal let alone a long term one. This signing give Lou sometime to make some more moves and dump some salary which he as stated that " We have more moves to make " this roster is far from finished he will tweak it a little more and by the looks of it he is setting this roster up to make a run . Good job by Lou and good for Parise to stay on board. How do we know Lou did not give hime this contract and tell Parise that he will give him what he wants long term just give him some time to move some stuff around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Since the lockout, Lou has gone from the best ever to about average. The reason for that is he's been too generous to make sure he signs someone, and it's bitten him in the ass. Much as the Kovalchuk contract was too much money, it didn't hamstring the franchise last year as much as the many excessively generous contracts (Langenbrunner, Salvador, White, Elias, Zubrus, Clarkson, Rolston at the very least). Some of those guys are very good players and most of them are likeable guys who were good in the clubhouse and inspired loyalty. That doesn't mean they deserved the money they got. Furthermore, most of the time, we liked the deal at the time Lou made it, but it didn't work out LONG TERM. This time, Lou didn't bite. It will suck to lose Zach. It will not hamstring the franchise. We have a reason to be concerned about Zach. Without more evidence that he's the same player, it's stupid to keep him for years, at least if he wants too much money. I hope he comes back spectacular, and we have to pay even more. I'll deal with him coming back strong and signing somewhere else. That said, there is a distinct possibility that Zach is not the same player -- he's smallish, especially considering how much of a beating he takes around the net, and he was out longer than expected with the knee injury last year. Giving him 5+ years at over 6 mil would be a disaster if he's not a superstar, especially with a superstar on the roster at his position. He's only worth that hit if he's part of a filthy 1 - 2 punch. Let's see if he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienDev Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Seems to me that a lot of you have forgotten that in Lou we trust. Seriously - Lou has had a great summer so far, and the franchise is looking in great shape for October. What I want to see next is the "C" on Parise's chest. Can't help but think that this is the biggest bond for Zach to the Devils. Oh - and we are going to have an awesome season, and I can't wait already!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oconnellrules Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 stop overreacting everyone. zach is heart and soul. theyll hammer out something in the 9-10 year range when some more money is set to come off the books. malkin/crosby backstrom/ovechkin parise/kovalchuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin226 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Colin -- I dont think he'll sign mid-year. That just never happens. There is always a reason and a decent one to push it off until last minute and Lou just always seems to let his UFAs test the market - it's what he does. Well he might wait until the offseason, but either way I see him resigning long term before he goes UFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayday Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 malkin/crosbybackstrom/ovechkin parise/kovalchuk Lets look at this by position...center/center, center/winger, winger/winger Exact problem we have here, center/winger duo is ideal and center/center is also workable and almost always sucessful but having two star wingers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 With Rolston gone, we could have signed parise to a long-term deal and still had wiggle room under the cap. This. And the amount of time we've had to sign him long term makes this inexcusable and unnecessary. We have more than enough space to give him what he wants. No reason to be playing w fire. Lou doesn't even like giving out contracts during the year and zach can't focus completely on the season now. His injury type is not going to change the caliber player that he's been either, and he's gotten a ton of time to recover and get his game back. He even played last yr after the surgery, so that lou could see he didn't lose a step. Screw Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I am amazed at how this is still going on about "Lou screwing up" a long term contract. This is 90% ownership issues and 10% knee issue. It's essentially 0% Lou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Lets look at this by position...center/center, center/winger, winger/winger Exact problem we have here, center/winger duo is ideal and center/center is also workable and almost always sucessful but having two star wingers... How do you know a winger/winger duo can't work? Has it ever been tried? Just because center's generally looked at as the key position, doesn't mean you can't have wingers as your two best offensive players if you have guys like Zajac, Elias and Josefson around to play pivot. Well he might wait until the offseason, but either way I see him resigning long term before he goes UFA And how many guys sign upwards of $5 million per year contracts in the same offseason they're about to become UFA? Off the top of my head just Jay Bouwmeester, but that's cause he wanted to go to Calgary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BelieveinBrodeur Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) I am amazed at how this is still going on about "Lou screwing up" a long term contract. This is 90% ownership issues and 10% knee issue. It's essentially 0% Lou. +1 Per TG Parise confirmed that his agent, Wade Arnott, plans to continue talking with the Devils and the goal still is to sign a long-term extension with the Devils that begins after the upcoming season. (He can’t officially sign until Jan. 1, 2012 Edited July 31, 2011 by BelieveinBrodeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Puddy Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Once a player request or a team demands arbitration the only contract that can be signed per the CBA before the arbitration date is a one year contract. Do you have a citation for this? I've never heard anything like that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtime98 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 What is the big freaking deal?................Most Devils fans (hockey fans) would make horrible GM's. This isnt fantasy video hockey land this is real life. Lou was smart locked him up to what he could AVOIDED arbitration!!! He probably needs to move other players, Zach's age comes into play with the CBA, and his team cap. Also, Zach is coming off a major knee injury. Also Maybe Zach wants to see if the coach will stick around for longer than a year, we make the playoffs WITH the almighty kovalchuk. Zach wants to win and the devils havent been winning.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyrsuck26 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 how long do you think it takes to negotiate an NHL contract? If it's July 1st, apparently about 2 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv4Life Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) I am amazed at how this is still going on about "Lou screwing up" a long term contract. This is 90% ownership issues and 10% knee issue. It's essentially 0% Lou. If that were the case what's with the FA signings so far? How come there hasn't been a major salary dump? Folks need to stop acting like Lou's innocent and can't do any wrong. We've seen this before. Edited July 31, 2011 by Marv4Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 This is partly a Lou issue. This is Lou's organization, and ZP9 has been here for several years - seen many coaches come and go, seen bad signings, seen a new LW be brought in at a tumultuous mega contract when they might not have needed him, has not had ANY playoff success, where the goaltender and Elias are getting older and older, the system seems out of whack.... And all the while he's seen Gomez, Gionta, Madden, Rupp, Martin go on and sing praises about playing for other teams - all the while having more playoff success (save Martin). ZP9 isn't looking for a long term deal yet. He wants to wait and see if this team is going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) Since the lockout, Lou has gone from the best ever to about average. The reason for that is he's been too generous to make sure he signs someone, and it's bitten him in the ass. Much as the Kovalchuk contract was too much money, it didn't hamstring the franchise last year as much as the many excessively generous contracts (Langenbrunner, Salvador, White, Elias, Zubrus, Clarkson, Rolston at the very least). you have the causality wrong here. from 1999-2004, the devils drafted 3 worthwhile players - parise, zajac, martin. that's IT. 2005, we got bergfors who we traded, and fayne who looks like a keeper. but there hasn't been anyone else capable of taking a regular NHL shift. lou's also found some free agents in greene, clarkson, and oduya. these have turned out to be average-ish players. but so you have an entire team getting older. the 2003 devils who were in the nhl in say, 2009, (gionta, gomez, elias, white, langenbrunner, niedermayer, brodeur, madden, pandolfo) were making a combined 40.6M on their contracts. would that team win a stanley cup? or even compete for one? i don't really think so. plus you have to pay guys right away now - parise was making 3.125M after his 2nd year in the NHL. without many entry-level contracts, or promising young players, lou has had to dip into the free agent pool. each year he seems to sacrifice dollars for years - he'll only slightly overpay a player (underpaying compared to market price), but he'll give them one or two many years. this is something he's had to do, otherwise the team will have giant holes in it. there was paul martin and david hale, and then there was andy greene, and now there's taormina and fayne. but martin and hale came up in 04, greene in 08, taormina and fayne in 2011. that's a long time to go between rookie defensemen. but now he doesn't have to do that. this year he's signed 0 important players off the free agent market. next year he might sign 0 - just slide larsson into colin white's spot. This is partly a Lou issue. This is Lou's organization, and ZP9 has been here for several years - seen many coaches come and go, seen bad signings, seen a new LW be brought in at a tumultuous mega contract when they might not have needed him, has not had ANY playoff success, where the goaltender and Elias are getting older and older, the system seems out of whack.... And all the while he's seen Gomez, Gionta, Madden, Rupp, Martin go on and sing praises about playing for other teams - all the while having more playoff success (save Martin). ZP9 isn't looking for a long term deal yet. He wants to wait and see if this team is going anywhere. but this team is going somewhere. this team hasn't had this many promising young players since 2000. even if it doesn't win a round next year, it's going somewhere. Edited July 31, 2011 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtikl Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 For your sake, Tri, I hope the Devils put up an entertaining product this season, ZP performs a miracle, IK doesn't svck, MB rebounds, and the fans keep each other going. I think you're right, the real game for Lou has been to shepherd the franchise through the lean years when their past success catches up with them. He has to do what the owners want, maybe they want to maximize revenue, maybe they want to win ONE cup and then sell... Anyway, he hasn't had much to work with lately. His choice has been to tank for the draft picks and hemorrhage fans, or to hobble along wisely and frugally with a team that plays well enough to make the playoffs most seasons and retain most of the fanbase but keep getting poor draft picks and almost never draft another superstar. There's a lot of competition in the area and the Devils haven't been around long enough to have the multi-generational loyalty of, say, the Bruins, so Lou really to worry about the on-ice product every year. And it's hard to gauge the fanbase's real preference based on surveys and polls. For instance, people might say they don't mind not winning the Cup as long as the hockey's good to watch and the team makes the playoffs, but lose interest when the team goes for a decade without winning. It's not what they say they want (cf. cognitive dissonance) it's what they do with their ticket money that matters. He won't have an easy job for awhile, I hope he gets a lot of mileage out of landing Larsson but I expect that's down the road. Meanwhile, since there's no hockey in Low Hell again, I'm still gonna root for the players I like. GO, ZACH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) If that were the case what's with the FA signings so far? How come there hasn't been a major salary dump? Folks need to stop acting like Lou's innocent and can't do any wrong. We've seen this before. What FA signings, Greene and Hedberg? They cost $4 million in real money (cause Greene's deal is slightly backloaded) this year and we got rid of $3 million of that with the Rolston-Hunter swap, that's not a big deal either way. What other payroll are we supposed to dump, Zubrus? That's not a big deal and could be even more counterproductive. Despite the fact 95% of Devils fans want Clarkson to go he ain't going anywhere with DeBoer here at this point. Elias isn't going anywhere, even if we wanted to trade him the NMC and his $7 million salary would make it unlikely. Lou's not innocent but you have to wonder what's going on with ownership when they spend around $150 million of contracts last FA and yet all you hear is there are going to be issues with paying two guys big money over the next few years when Kovy gets his giant paydays. Edited July 31, 2011 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 If that were the case what's with the FA signings so far? How come there hasn't been a major salary dump? Folks need to stop acting like Lou's innocent and can't do any wrong. We've seen this before. This. not trying to piss off people since we got the news but some people need to open their eyes here. It's ridiculous to make Lou look like a genius out of this situation. And again we don't know why exactly they went for the one year deal. So to say that it was good or bad nobody knows... but the way he did it is bringing a huge risk If its because of the ownership situation: you would imagine that Lou knew about it for awhile that they had a problem coming with signing Parise long-term to big money. Maybe thats why he was waiting for that long waiting for the problem to get solved. Either that or he was way too confident and ran out of time. Well again, if thats the case thats what happen for waiting last minute for everything Lou. If its because of Zach's knee: And if its ONLY reason preventing the organization to hand him a big paycheck well thats just dumb. Should have made him do some tests or wtv, i know that knee injuries sucks but buddy hasnt lost his hands, his shot, his will and wtv, its easy to test the speed, endurance and everything else, i know that theres nothing like a real NHL game but still. If the doctors are saying he's 100% and that it shouldnt bring any problem well what? Do you REALLY have to go and take the risk to lose the guy to FA (they may not but its still a big risk) instead of finding a way to know during the summer before the arbitration? Maybe Zach wanted too much? i dont know about that... we had quite enough cap space for him this season and have money coming off the book next season so we were good. And IF his demands was ridiculous lets say he wanted 9m per season or wtv... i can't see Lou going for that deal next season eventho we would have the money, it would be another bad overpayment. So what now? If thats the case its either that they trade him or hope that he's changing his mind. Maybe Lou was lowballing (Louballing) the offer and that it wasnt enough for Zach: You would assume watching Lou overpaying a bunch of players that he would have no problem giving the right money to our team MVP and face of the franchise. so i don't think that's it. Lou's patience is seriously becoming a problem, last season we got in a terrible cap mess when the season started. Why? from the outside it seems like Lou waited last minute to make a lineup change or trade someone or wtv, i guess what he had in mind didnt work so we got fvcked. Well again when you wait last minute and that your plan is not working you dont have time to recover. We got kinda lucky that so many players got injured and it got us through the season with that cap mess. Then it took forever to fire MacLean, he admitted that he should have done it before and that he was too patient. well you should have learned from it Lou. And now Zach, again something went wrong cause both side wanted something and they didnt get it and "ran out of time" again im not here saying that i think that Lou was just sitting in his chair looking at the sky or playing NHL11 doing nothing. But there was NO REASON not to begin talks earlier with Zach and his agents AT ALL, again im not saying getting a deal done earlier, but at least get the ball going and get an idea of what Zach wanted and if there was ownership problem well to let them know that they were waiting for "something" to happen before getting into serious talks. Cause from Zach's quote he was absolutely clueless of what was going on, and i don't like that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 you have the causality wrong here. from 1999-2004, the devils drafted 3 worthwhile players - parise, zajac, martin. that's IT. 2005, we got bergfors who we traded, and fayne who looks like a keeper. but there hasn't been anyone else capable of taking a regular NHL shift. lou's also found some free agents in greene, clarkson, and oduya. these have turned out to be average-ish players. but so you have an entire team getting older. the 2003 devils who were in the nhl in say, 2009, (gionta, gomez, elias, white, langenbrunner, niedermayer, brodeur, madden, pandolfo) were making a combined 40.6M on their contracts. would that team win a stanley cup? or even compete for one? i don't really think so. plus you have to pay guys right away now - parise was making 3.125M after his 2nd year in the NHL. without many entry-level contracts, or promising young players, lou has had to dip into the free agent pool. each year he seems to sacrifice dollars for years - he'll only slightly overpay a player (underpaying compared to market price), but he'll give them one or two many years. this is something he's had to do, otherwise the team will have giant holes in it. there was paul martin and david hale, and then there was andy greene, and now there's taormina and fayne. but martin and hale came up in 04, greene in 08, taormina and fayne in 2011. that's a long time to go between rookie defensemen. but now he doesn't have to do that. this year he's signed 0 important players off the free agent market. next year he might sign 0 - just slide larsson into colin white's spot. but this team is going somewhere. this team hasn't had this many promising young players since 2000. even if it doesn't win a round next year, it's going somewhere. Good post. I agree about the draft especially. Its pretty remarkable that we have been so competative with little help from our farm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) sterio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3dUfykR-_g wade arnott said at the beginning of this that lou told them that he would get back to them when the ownership situation was settled. it's not settled. you're being incredibly naive on all fronts here. "Still, Parise’s agent, Wade Arnott, said last month that Lamoriello told him, “He was awaiting some direction on the whole ownership situation." 6/21 So yeah, it has nothing to do with ownership, that was a lie so lou could go to his house on martha's vineyard Edited July 31, 2011 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) For your sake, Tri, I hope the Devils put up an entertaining product this season, ZP performs a miracle, IK doesn't svck, MB rebounds, and the fans keep each other going. I think you're right, the real game for Lou has been to shepherd the franchise through the lean years when their past success catches up with them. He has to do what the owners want, maybe they want to maximize revenue, maybe they want to win ONE cup and then sell... Anyway, he hasn't had much to work with lately. His choice has been to tank for the draft picks and hemorrhage fans, or to hobble along wisely and frugally with a team that plays well enough to make the playoffs most seasons and retain most of the fanbase but keep getting poor draft picks and almost never draft another superstar. There's a lot of competition in the area and the Devils haven't been around long enough to have the multi-generational loyalty of, say, the Bruins, so Lou really to worry about the on-ice product every year. And it's hard to gauge the fanbase's real preference based on surveys and polls. For instance, people might say they don't mind not winning the Cup as long as the hockey's good to watch and the team makes the playoffs, but lose interest when the team goes for a decade without winning. It's not what they say they want (cf. cognitive dissonance) it's what they do with their ticket money that matters. He won't have an easy job for awhile, I hope he gets a lot of mileage out of landing Larsson but I expect that's down the road. Tanking is for idiots. Only an idiot franchise chooses to lose intentionally, or doesn't do whatever they can to put the best team out on the ice (without seriously jeopardizing the future). That hasn't been Lou's choice. What Lou has gotten between 1999 and 2005 in the draft is 3 excellent players, 3 legitimate first-liners, but nothing else. No 3rd line players, no 2nd line players. Martin's a top 40 defenseman, zajac is a top 30 center, and parise is one of the top 5 left wings. but there's been nothing behind that. so there's a lot of reason, with those guys and with some of the other players the devils have retained, to expect the team to be competitive, and it has been. but it hasn't quite gotten the depth needed, and things haven't gone right in the playoffs - they've gotten pretty much no breaks, they haven't faced any weak sisters since 2007 in the 1st round. but now the organization is suddenly full of promising players. and there's kovalchuk, also. and a great signing in tallinder. things are definitely looking up. Edited July 31, 2011 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) sterio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3dUfykR-_g wade arnott said at the beginning of this that lou told them that he would get back to them when the ownership situation was settled. it's not settled. you're being incredibly naive on all fronts here. "Still, Parise’s agent, Wade Arnott, said last month that Lamoriello told him, “He was awaiting some direction on the whole ownership situation." 6/21 So yeah, it has nothing to do with ownership, that was a lie so lou could go to his house on martha's vineyard ahhhhh well there you go, i totally missed or forgot about that quote, i dont remember reading that at all. you should have brought it up sooner man, not wait til you see me arguing my ass off for 2 days looking like an idiot and talking out of my ass. like i said earlier i can only hope that youre right but still... denying thats there's no huge risk to lose him is silly Edited July 31, 2011 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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