capo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Ok, so now Lou was suppose to sign players who clearly had personal reasons for leaving? Let's look at some of the "stars" who left: Gomez? Gionta? Clarkson? Parise? Martin? Kovy? How about giving some credit to Lou for finding these guys in the first place? It seems like except for a couple of guys over the years, Lou seems to have a keen sense for knowing when to sell. In the case of Parise, you can't fires a guy to stay. Clarkson? If he gave us the same performance he's giving Toronto, you same people would be screaming how it was a stupid signing. I just don't understand the Lou haters. Let me ask you this: who would you replace him with? I never said he's done a horrible job overall. The poni trade 2 years ago was a great deal. Of course he's done good things. But he plays russian roulette with these guys instead of locking them up because of his policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 What's the difference between 7/1 and 8/29? The most money he's going to get is going to be from the Devils, the system sees to this. This too...so long as you offer Cory an eight-year deal (which there's no real reason not to assuming he doesn't nosedive the rest of the season) there's really no reason he wouldn't be signed barring getting bitten by the 'I want to go home' disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 You think Elias, Stevens, and Brodeur are worse players than Parise and Niedermayer? Okay then. I believe Parise is a better player than Elias and Niedermayer was a better player than Stevens. Brodeur never thought of going anywhere at any point hence the reason he didn't need an agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 This too...so long as you offer Cory an eight-year deal (which there's no real reason not to assuming he doesn't nosedive the rest of the season) there's really no reason he wouldn't be signed barring getting bitten by the 'I want to go home' disease. Yep, the only downside in this would have been if he turned out to not be as advertised when he's stretched out and plays more. So far he seems better than advertised and he's snuffing Marty, which would have been the other concern. He has the numbers he has WITH a rough patch in there. He's really good. He'll play alot down the stretch, he'll play the playoff games if there are any, and he'll have a stooge as a backup next year, whether it's Marty or Kinkaid or something. I don't see what the panic is about. I believe Parise is a better player than Elias and Niedermayer was a better player than Stevens. Brodeur never thought of going anywhere at any point hence the reason he didn't need an agent. If you think Neidermayer was a better player than Stevens, you started watching hockey around 11-12 years ago. Parise also probably isn't better than Elias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils102 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Interviews with players are up now on NHL.com and NJD.com, Funny Jagr clip when asked if he took time to look around and take in the experience. "Yeah, it looked like we all did in the second period." It feels good to laugh again. And Marty does say it's the worse ice he ever played on.... but it was in response to a later question about the condition of the ice before and after the delay... It wasn't -- Why did you suck today Marty? "Well it was because the ice was the worst I ever I played on!" He does blame his play on bad luck and having no feel in the outdoor game, which will probably still be upsetting for a lot of people. Edited January 27, 2014 by devils102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Scott Stevens had 908 points and nearly 2800 penalty minutes as well as being the most feared hitter in the game. He's head and shoulders above Nieds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH26 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) I believe Parise is a better player than Elias and Niedermayer was a better player than Stevens. Brodeur never thought of going anywhere at any point hence the reason he didn't need an agent. I think you're forgetting how good pre-2002 Scott Stevens was. And Parise, if he keeps going at this pace *may* end up being as good as Elias, but probably not. Elias' career high in points was higher during the dead puck era. He's played center too. He never played with anyone as good as Kovalchuk. It's arguable whether Parise's even a better player than him *now* and I'd argue he's not edit: parise: 27 pts in 39 games (not star material there) Elias: 27 points in 37 games going into today I assume? Just searched on ESPN. Elias all day err day Edited January 27, 2014 by DH26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I think you're forgetting how good pre-2002 Scott Stevens was. And Parise, if he keeps going at this pace *may* end up being as good as Elias, but probably not. Elias' career high in points was higher during the dead puck era. He's played center too. He never played with anyone as good as Kovalchuk. It's arguable whether Parise's even a better player than him *now* and I'd argue he's not Parise is a class of player that is allowed to exist because of the rule changes. If they didn't change the rules, you'd need to be John Leclair's size to play his style. Without it, he's probably a checking winger who plays off transition. A John Madden type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Yep, the only downside in this would have been if he turned out to not be as advertised when he's stretched out and plays more. So far he seems better than advertised and he's snuffing Marty, which would have been the other concern. He has the numbers he has WITH a rough patch in there. He's really good. He'll play alot down the stretch, he'll play the playoff games if there are any, and he'll have a stooge as a backup next year, whether it's Marty or Kinkaid or something. I don't see what the panic is about. If you think Neidermayer was a better player than Stevens, you started watching hockey around 11-12 years ago. Parise also probably isn't better than Elias. This is really a stupid argument.... I look at Niedermayer and I watch him play with a Ken Daneyko for years long after Daneyko should have retired and I see a player who is virtually playing D without a partner... I see guy who holds every championship known to his sport. I see a guy who left a team and a system and put a new team on his back and carries them to a championship. Like I said, this is a stupid argument they are both HOFer's. If I was starting over with both of them I'd take Niedermayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Met him in Hoboken at City Bistro over the summer right before I moved to LA. Dude is funny as hell and as random as hell in person in casual conversation. First thing he says to me, "brooooooo, LAAAAAAAAA...good luck mannnnnn....I almost got divorced 6 times because of that (effing) place". He was cool and I became a bigger fan after chatting with him that night...super approachable, laid back, kinda douchey but funny as hell. Roenick was one of my most hated players growing up but I've completely changed my opinion on him now that he's on tv. I love his personality. Will be interesting to see if the NHL moves to Seattle and he ends up being a part of the front office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) This is really a stupid argument.... I look at Niedermayer and I watch him play with a Ken Daneyko for years long after Daneyko should have retired and I see a player who is virtually playing D without a partner... I see guy who holds every championship known to his sport. I see a guy who left a team and a system and put a new team on his back and carries them to a championship. Like I said, this is a stupid argument they are both HOFer's. If I was starting over with both of them I'd take Niedermayer. He played with Colin White when Daneyko was shot, and Colin White was actually good for awhile, and even then, I was down in the defensive zone during Game 7 in Ottawa... he had a bad game. Obviously yeah, they're both great players, but Stevens threw away a portion of his game for a reason and Neidermayer got to play his second chapter in a friendly environment. Edited January 27, 2014 by maxpower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 quite embarassing to see marty blaming the ice conditions now... brrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 The latter argument is flawed because Nieds was arguably not even the best defenseman on the Ducks. He didn't carry mediocre teams to the Finals the way Pronger did TWICE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH26 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) This is really a stupid argument.... I look at Niedermayer and I watch him play with a Ken Daneyko for years long after Daneyko should have retired and I see a player who is virtually playing D without a partner... I see guy who holds every championship known to his sport. I see a guy who left a team and a system and put a new team on his back and carries them to a championship. Like I said, this is a stupid argument they are both HOFer's. If I was starting over with both of them I'd take Niedermayer. that sounds pretty much exactly like you aren't aware of how good or what Stevens did or was pre-2000s Parise is a class of player that is allowed to exist because of the rule changes. If they didn't change the rules, you'd need to be John Leclair's size to play his style. Without it, he's probably a checking winger who plays off transition. A John Madden type. maybe a bigger pre-lockout Brian Gionta? There are outliers like St Louis, but either way, he wasn't putting up 96 points in 01 like Elias did Edited January 27, 2014 by DH26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 The latter argument is flawed because Nieds was arguably not even the best defenseman on the Ducks. He didn't carry mediocre teams to the Finals the way Pronger did TWICE. He carried them through the finals. He was by far their best player in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH26 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 He carried them through the finals. He was by far their best player in the playoffs. Chris Pronger says hey how's it going. Remember the 06, 07 and '10 playoffs? He was involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 that sounds pretty much exactly like you aren't aware of how good or what Stevens did or was pre-2000s maybe a bigger pre-lockout Brian Gionta? There are outliers like St Louis, but either way, he wasn't putting up 96 points in 01 like Elias did Yeah, but that's what I think Gionta was basically, a defensive transition winger. If Parise's scored more than 5 goals in his career outside of the circles, he scored 2 or 3 of them recently. He would have been beaten stupid. St. Louis is dangerous anywhere on the rink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 that sounds pretty much exactly like you aren't aware of how good or what Stevens did or was pre-2000s maybe a bigger pre-lockout Brian Gionta? There are outliers like St Louis, but either way, he wasn't putting up 96 points in 01 like Elias did You can't look at Elias in this case in isolation of the A-Line. Elias is a great player but the A-Line inflated his numbers some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmann422 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 It's unfortunate that it was a blowout loss on national tv in a first ever event, but it's one loss. And it's on the entire team, not Marty or Salvador or Fayne or anyone individually, because clearly nobody's early had a good game today. Positives to take for me: - the defensive breakdowns that we saw constantly are rare for us, so I'm not worried about it. - the power play continues to produce. It's a shame we couldn't draw a few more penalties late because I think we could have made it interesting, but if our power play continues to convert at this rate we will be in good shape. - josefson looked halfway decent on the jägr line, better than Boucher did. I hope to god Pete keeps him there for Tuesday - broduer letting in 6 goals will further cement Cory as the starter. I hope and think he will get at least 20 of the final 29 games, probably more than that. Hopefully they will be fired up on Tuesday because you know St. Louis will be after they were embarrassed by us last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 You can't look at Elias in this case in isolation of the A-Line. Elias is a great player but the A-Line inflated his numbers some. And what do Parise's numbers look like without Zajac and Langs? They went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 And what do Parise's numbers look like without Zajac and Langs? They went down. I would argue the Parise was the driving force on that line and the others were hitch hikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmann422 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 quite embarassing to see marty blaming the ice conditions now... brrr I hate when quotes are taken out if context. The question to him was probably along the lines of: "Marty, how was the ice conditions today?", not "Marty, why did you let in 6 goals."People see the quote and assume he was blaming the ice. I'd like to hear the entire conversation to understand what exactly he was responding to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) I would argue the Parise was the driving force on that line and the others were hitch hikers. well, he needs to start being more of a driving force because he's back to being a 60-65 point player now. and btw, Elias was the best player on that line by a mile. Arnott was a 50 point player. I'm starting to think you didn't actually watch alot of this stuff. Elias almost had a fvcking 100 point season during the dead puck era.... playing 18 minutes a night Edited January 27, 2014 by maxpower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 ESPN - Devils G Martin Brodeur says "worst ice I ever played hockey on" after loss to Rangers at Yankee Stadium Bro you're a goalie. Quit complaining about the ice, there were plenty of skaters that had to tough it out Yeah, that's a lame excuse. He really just sounds like he's making excuses with that one. Everyone played on the same ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Yeah there's no way Parise's a better player than Elias. He's a marginally better goal scorer, though not a particularly varied one since all of Parise's goals come within a 5x5 box and Elias is better everywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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