sundstrom Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 http://www.mc79hocke...=3266#more-3266 this ignores the fact that by kovy having less of a cap hit, the devils can actually pay more guys more money rather than having to have 6 guys on the roster making $750k or less. escrow stinks for the players and this hurts it. but would you rather get hit w/ a bigger escrow bill but make $1.2MM/year as a lunch pail guy or be out of the league because teams have to supplement their roster w/ cheap AHL filler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) I'm a few Jamesons deep, so I'll admit the article lost me after the second paragraph. I'll just say that, despite the natural inclination to hate lawyers, you'd be hard pressed to get a lawyer to intentionally pull punches to lose a case. it's simple. salaries that are larger than cap salaries throw off linkage. too much money in % goes to the players. if the money gone to players is above the amount, everyone gets charged through escrow. for the guy who makes more money than cap and never reciporates by having less salary than cap, he comes out ahead. for joe schome who can't get himself one of these cool deals, he's always out there waiting to pay the escrow bill. I also believe that if the league misses the linkage mark, the guy who gets paid over his cap value still gets the reverse escrow payment. great deal if you can get it. as for the lawyers, yes I see. obviously a bad rumor although the other guy's site is down right now. maybe those were background guys? eh, it sounds better that way. Edited August 10, 2010 by maxpower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattyElias26 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I still think that we will end up getting Kovy, if you think Lou didn't see this happening and didn't have something else planned you're off your rocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) this ignores the fact that by kovy having less of a cap hit, the devils can actually pay more guys more money rather than having to have 6 guys on the roster making $750k or less. escrow stinks for the players and this hurts it. but would you rather get hit w/ a bigger escrow bill but make $1.2MM/year as a lunch pail guy or be out of the league because teams have to supplement their roster w/ cheap AHL filler. this is a surprisingly false dichotomy. mc79hockey's point is that players on every single team are subsidizing other teams' ability to compete. i don't think the effect you describe is powerful enough to overcome the fact that every single player in the NHL feels the brunt of these contracts. only 2 or 3% of players get to be in the situation you describe, but 99% of players lose money because of these contracts. Edited August 10, 2010 by Triumph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilgriffey84 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Salary cap systems are essentially a set of detailed rules,” said Jeffrey Kessler, outside counsel for the NFL and NBA players’ unions, who has represented the NHLPA in the past. “Think of it like the tax code. There’s nothing wrong if the rules allow for people to do it to structure things to take advantage of the tax code to reduce your taxes. There’s nothing wrong with taking advantage of the salary cap rules to create more room to sign players. … “Intent should not matter. What should matter is whether you follow the rules or not.” why couldnt we have this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I think the Devils would have been ok if they offered something like Hossa's contract. Instead they offered something even worse than Hossa's contract and so the league voided it, as the league said it most likely would. It's not about the Devils being surprised that the deal got rejected. It's about the Devils believing that the contract was legal. Whether the Hossa contract was "worse" than Kovy's is minute as long as the both contracts are proven to comply with the CBA. The contract was also not way worse. I expect Lou to call it a lower body injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 why couldnt we have this guy Maybe because the league didn't want a union lawyer deciding the case. Can't say I blame them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 this is a surprisingly false dichotomy. mc79hockey's point is that players on every single team are subsidizing other teams' ability to compete. i don't think the effect you describe is powerful enough to overcome the fact that every single player in the NHL feels the brunt of these contracts. only 2 or 3% of players get to be in the situation you describe, but 99% of players lose money because of these contracts. i do understand this - trust me, i'm not totally dense. while its true NOW that only 2% to 3% get these, if the NHL let them continue, more would and then it would start to do what i say. every player does feel escrow yes. but if there were 2 of these on every team, is jay pandolfo still in the NHL? (perhaps pando is a bad example but you get my drift). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I do think the PA likely doesn't care too much about the escrow-paying nobodies, because it's never been about them. at the same time, though, I don't know exactly what constitutes the PA at this moment. and this CBA has been a good deal for the escrow paying nobodies, compared to former ones. check salary lists from '04 and you'll see the rich guys and the 30 year old RFA who hasn't been able to drag himself up into much pay, comparatively. now the market seems more even handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) I do think the PA likely doesn't care too much about the escrow-paying nobodies, because it's never been about them. at the same time, though, I don't know exactly what constitutes the PA at this moment. and this CBA has been a good deal for the escrow paying nobodies, compared to former ones. check salary lists from '04 and you'll see the rich guys and the 30 year old RFA who hasn't been able to drag himself up into much pay, comparatively. now the market seems more even handed. Eh. I think the PA exists to stand up for the little guy. There isn't much work in the line of representing the high payed players. Escrow has been pretty tough on the players the past couple years. I think that is going to be a stiff negotiating point in the next CBA...it's gonna be a tough argument. Edited August 10, 2010 by ben00rs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 This may have been posted back when the league first rejected the contract, but it bears posting again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCrOFHnk0YI Now THAT is how you serenade Bettman. (EDIT: Wrong video.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 i do understand this - trust me, i'm not totally dense. while its true NOW that only 2% to 3% get these, if the NHL let them continue, more would and then it would start to do what i say. every player does feel escrow yes. but if there were 2 of these on every team, is jay pandolfo still in the NHL? (perhaps pando is a bad example but you get my drift). it only helps in years where the league makes more revenue than expected. otherwise, no - you are taking just as much money as you are giving back. every player making more than his cap hit is taking away from players who make exactly the amount of their cap hit. the more front-loaded, retirement deals there are, it just increases the amount that salary exceeds revenues and the amount of money taken from escrow. that's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 This may have been posted back when the league first rejected the contract, but it bears posting again: Now THAT is how you serenade Bettman. (EDIT: Wrong video.) If he didn't hate us yet he did after that night...Perhaps he's exacting revenge...Oh wait I forgot I'm an idiot because I put blame on Bettman right Triumph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 If he didn't hate us yet he did after that night...Perhaps he's exacting revenge...Oh wait I forgot I'm an idiot because I put blame on Bettman right Triumph? yes, you are. and you're the one who said it, not me. gary bettman didn't sign kovalchuk to a ridiculous deal and expect to get it past league censure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) yes, you are. and you're the one who said it, not me. gary bettman didn't sign kovalchuk to a ridiculous deal and expect to get it past league censure. I'm just an average Joe who's pissed and holds the NHL's foremost representative responsible for what the league does...if that makes me an idiot...so be it. Edited August 10, 2010 by ben00rs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Eh. I think the PA exists to stand up for the little guy. There isn't much work in the line of representing the high payed players. Escrow has been pretty tough on the players the past couple years. I think that is going to be a stiff negotiating point in the next CBA...it's gonna be a tough argument. it's never been about the little guy. if it was about the little guy, they wouldn't have been forced to sit a year for what happened. it's always been about the guys who make the big money. look at salary lists from before the lockout and tell me there was anything even handed about it. Scott Niedermayer had been in the league for 12 full seasons and had only made it to $4M even. do you think a Scott Niedermayer in this environment would be making that? and scrubs were basically glued to their qualifier or whatever the team was so inclined to give them. considering most normal players would flame out before making UFA, or be a rotting husk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-SS Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I'm not mad at this decision since I know that the contract will be reworked but this piss me off when I think about all the time we will be waiting once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grcenter47 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I'm not mad at this decision since I know that the contract will be reworked but this piss me off when I think about all the time we will be waiting once again. i agree. its like waiting for your gifts at xmas time when you are little and when you wake up, you parents tell you, they are locked in storage and the key was lost ::sorry that was a horrible metaphor but this thread is making me tired:: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice dog Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 anyone want to hire this guy for a birthday party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 according to Mirtle, the Canucks have been contacted to round up information and wait for further instructions. to the fallout shelters, if Mirtle isn't being overly dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrthemike Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I haven't read the comments but I think LL is secretly pleased with the decision as he has always looked down on these kinds of deals. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattyElias26 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 ugh I was hoping I'd wake up and this would all be a bad nightmare. LL sign Kovy please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer91 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 anyone want to hire this guy for a birthday party? I wonder if he will have to change his phone number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtime98 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Training camp starts Sept. 17th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) And, for my next trick, I'm going to shred the credibility of the NHL and fvck the Devils over! *Poof* all of the non-hockey sports fans i talked to about this thought that the 17 year contract length was either a joke or a misprint. the contract shredded the credibility of the NHL. Edited August 10, 2010 by Triumph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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