ghdi Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Similar to Florida teams is my exact concern. Outside the Dolphins and now the Lightning, at least for the time being, no one cares about Florida sports. The Rays are perennial contenders, and it's usually not even close attendance wise between Tampa and whoever comes in at 29th. And it's probable that Miami is in that 29th conversation yearly. The Panthers might as well not exist. Florida is not like anyplace in this country when it concerns professional sports. I lived there for my junior high through two college years. Its very weird that Florida sports teams besides the Dolphins (and the Heat when they're good) don't get any sort of meaningful attendance, espc considering its so football crazed, although the Bucs aren't devoid of a fan base. Jacksonville is not a tourist destination at all. The Panthers get attendance when they're good and they're going to be good again soon. I don't think the comparison to Vegas is apt. People go to Florida to hit the beach and places like Disney (there's a reason there's only an NBA team and an MLS team are in Orlando). People go to Vegas to have a good time and that doesn't always revolve around gambling. They want to do things in the evening, go to shows etc. NHL hockey is exactly the type of regular event that a place like Vegas could use as its not Celine Dion or Britney Spears concerts lol. Basically something that will lure more guys into. Things like UNLV sports do great gates in Vegas and they havent been relevant in most sports for more than 20 years now. Vegas' demographics also trend a lot younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Didn't the ECHL Las Vegas Wranglers do decently attendance wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeCups Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 If this happens I will fly out for the Devils' first Vegas appearance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Didn't the ECHL Las Vegas Wranglers do decently attendance wise? About ~4500-4600 their last two years, they went idle after the 13-14 season after losing their lease (Orleans Arena) and folded after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 If this happens I will fly out for the Devils' first Vegas appearance Same here. I haven't been to Vegas yet and this would be the perfect excuse to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Similar to Florida teams is my exact concern. Outside the Dolphins and now the Lightning, at least for the time being, no one cares about Florida sports. The Rays are perennial contenders, and it's usually not even close attendance wise between Tampa and whoever comes in at 29th. And it's probable that Miami is in that 29th conversation yearly. The Panthers might as well not exist. I misunderstood this post and thought you were saying that the Lightning couldn't draw for crap, and I was about to come back with this well-researched rebuttal about how Tampa actually tends to draw rather well, and then I reread it and realized you were talking about baseball instead. But yeah, the Rays are just pitiful when it comes to attendance. Lately Cleveland has been right down there with them, and the Marlins usually aren't too far off. I'd be careful about dissing the Panthers, though. Granted, they only drew a little over 11k this past season and a little over 14k the year before that, but typically they're in the same general neighborhood as the Devils; sometimes their attendance is better, sometimes ours is. Here's the last 10 seasons of attendance data (hopefully the formatting comes out right): Florida New Jersey difference 2014-15 11,265 30th 15,189 26th 3924 2013-14 14,177 29th 15,257 24th 1080 2012-13 16,991 22nd 17,114 20th 123 2011-12 16,628 21st 15,396 24th -1232 2010-11 15,685 22nd 14,775 25th - 910 2009-10 15,146 25th 15,535 20th 389 2008-09 15,621 24th 15,790 23rd 169 2007-08 15,436 25th 15,564 23rd 128 2006-07 15,370 22nd 14,176 26th -1194 2005-06 16,014 19th 14,230 26th -1784 Edited June 26, 2015 by RowdyFan42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I misunderstood this post and thought you were saying that the Lightning couldn't draw for crap, and I was about to come back with this well-researched rebuttal about how Tampa actually tends to draw rather well, and then I reread it and realized you were talking about baseball instead. But yeah, the Rays are just pitiful when it comes to attendance. Lately Cleveland has been right down there with them, and the Marlins usually aren't too far off. I'd be careful about dissing the Panthers, though. Granted, they only drew a little over 11k this past season and a little over 14k the year before that, but typically they're in the same general neighborhood as the Devils; sometimes their attendance is better, sometimes ours is. Here's the last 10 seasons of attendance data (hopefully the formatting comes out right): Florida New Jersey difference 2014-15 11,265 30th 15,189 26th 3924 2013-14 14,177 29th 15,257 24th 1080 2012-13 16,991 22nd 17,114 20th 123 2011-12 16,628 21st 15,396 24th -1232 2010-11 15,685 22nd 14,775 25th - 910 2009-10 15,146 25th 15,535 20th 389 2008-09 15,621 24th 15,790 23rd 169 2007-08 15,436 25th 15,564 23rd 128 2006-07 15,370 22nd 14,176 26th -1194 2005-06 16,014 19th 14,230 26th -1784 This is very misleading. The Devils charge way more per ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Does anyone know which markets have submitted applications? If these Coyotes rumors are true, and I know they are just rumors, but this opens up another market. That NY Post article mentions Toronto as a frontrunner with Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 This is very misleading. The Devils charge way more per ticketThe Panthers gave thousands of tickets away for games until this year. STHs were pissed for good reason, and attendance plummeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 This is interesting http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2015/04/09/capacity4.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 how do we think expansion will work in terms of the expansion draft? will it be something to the effect of, every team can protect all but 2 or 3 players? i wonder how the expansion draft will impact team management of contracts, ie, might some teams see the expansion draft as a get out of jail free card from their bad contracts, and might teams be more willing to take multi-year risks starting now with the knowledge that they might be able to jettison those guys later at the draft? just food for thought. hopefully the devils don't start signing any truly bad contracts in the shero era, but i wonder if a guy like zajac gets left unprotected at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If an expansion team is brought in for the 2016-17 season, it has the potential to effect where the Devils draft in next season's entry draft. From what I can remember, the expansion franchise will likely get the #3 pick, pushing everyone outside of picks 1 and 2 down a slot. Our luck is we will bad enough to get the third pick, then get bumped to 4th due to the expansion team. As for the expansion draft, I can't see the Devils leaving Zajac unprotected. He is overpaid, but he's still a good 2 way center that has the potential to put up descent numbers when he is surrounded by goods wingers. Usually it is a collection of 4th liners and way past their prime players that the expansion franchise has to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 i won't debate zajac's comparative real to contract value here (since it's polarizing and already beaten to death), but i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that nj sees a chance to do something better with his money and leaves him unprotected. the last expansion draft wasn't a cap era draft. i think there may be some more interesting complications this time around. 4th line scrubs may have little real value (and have been left open last time), but this time around, you might only do that if you happen to have a 4th liner signed to a really bad deal. otherwise, there's more value in contract purging than there is in low level talent purging. my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 that being said tho, they'll probably throw some rules in place that combined value of unprotected players can't exceed x amount (since the new expansion team will have to be cap compliant as well). can't have every team just leaving 6 million dollar contracts exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themightyall Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 that being said tho, they'll probably throw some rules in place that combined value of unprotected players can't exceed x amount (since the new expansion team will have to be cap compliant as well). can't have every team just leaving 6 million dollar contracts exposed. I think that is an idea and one that a lot of teams would be thinking about (Columbus with Clarkson, Philly with Vinny). I wouldn't think that they would restrict anyone more than just that they can protect the players they want and the expansion team can pick the players left over. I think that it'd have to get much worse with Zajac to get him to that point though. Just think of the ramifications when he finds out that he wasn't protected. Then worse yet, if he wasn't selected by the expansion team and had to come back to the Devils. That would create a huge situation. Better to trade him for a 7th rounder because then you at least know he'd be off the team. I wouldn't even know who else would be on the team to protect for the expansion. The only people I think signed beyond this year are Zajac, Henrique, Cam, Greene, Moore and Schneider (obviously the RFAs too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 How did the last expansion draft go? How many players were protected? Obviously guys on ELCs will be exempt, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If an expansion team is brought in for the 2016-17 season, it has the potential to effect where the Devils draft in next season's entry draft. From what I can remember, the expansion franchise will likely get the #3 pick, pushing everyone outside of picks 1 and 2 down a slot. Our luck is we will bad enough to get the third pick, then get bumped to 4th due to the expansion team. As for the expansion draft, I can't see the Devils leaving Zajac unprotected. He is overpaid, but he's still a good 2 way center that has the potential to put up descent numbers when he is surrounded by goods wingers. Usually it is a collection of 4th liners and way past their prime players that the expansion franchise has to choose from. While that's mostly true, there's definitely some notable exceptions - in 1998 the Predators got an up and coming 25 year old Andrew Brunette and a 22 year old Tomas Vokoun. In '00 the Wild got a 24yr old Filip Kuba, and the Blue Jackets got a 28yr old Geoff Sanderson. This is interesting http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2015/04/09/capacity4.html Sarasota is on that list... lol. I laugh because I live there, and, well, if anyone else did, you'd know an NHL team coming here isn't an option, so I am not sure why it was even considered and wasted time computing the economic possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think that is an idea and one that a lot of teams would be thinking about (Columbus with Clarkson, Philly with Vinny). I wouldn't think that they would restrict anyone more than just that they can protect the players they want and the expansion team can pick the players left over. I think that it'd have to get much worse with Zajac to get him to that point though. Just think of the ramifications when he finds out that he wasn't protected. Then worse yet, if he wasn't selected by the expansion team and had to come back to the Devils. That would create a huge situation. Better to trade him for a 7th rounder because then you at least know he'd be off the team. I wouldn't even know who else would be on the team to protect for the expansion. The only people I think signed beyond this year are Zajac, Henrique, Cam, Greene, Moore and Schneider (obviously the RFAs too). that's a valid point... but also at the end of the day, hockey players are professionals being paid mega sums of money. i think it's more pragmatic nowadays. players with large contracts know they are at risk of being bought out if they are not performing to some expectation. it shouldn't be a shock to player x that he signed a nice deal and didn't put up #s, and then his team left him open. it'd be more shocking to me if they protected him just to maintain face and have a good relationship. i mean, it's about winning. chicago makes no bones about it and makes hard decisions seemingly yearly. but yeah, we shall see. i'm not predicting this as a lock by any means. i dunno what the cap will look like in 2 yrs and what zajac's contract against it will look like, or what he'll do in this upcoming season to stake his value on the re-building devils. but if zajac has another stinker season (he aint 24 anymore), i'd say he'd be a candidate to be left unprotected if there are no nhl rules about max value on unprotected players. if no one were to take him in expansion... that'd be surprising. but if that happened, he comes back to earning millions of dollars a year. i think he'd be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 And contrary to popular belief, there ARE people who live in the Vegas area who are from there and didn't move from somewhere else- don't discount the civic pride aspect of those people to support the first and only major pro sports team in Vegas history. Yeah but how many of them have a 9-5 job that's conducive to a post-work/7PM game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themightyall Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 that's a valid point... but also at the end of the day, hockey players are professionals being paid mega sums of money. i think it's more pragmatic nowadays. players with large contracts know they are at risk of being bought out if they are not performing to some expectation. it shouldn't be a shock to player x that he signed a nice deal and didn't put up #s, and then his team left him open. it'd be more shocking to me if they protected him just to maintain face and have a good relationship. i mean, it's about winning. chicago makes no bones about it and makes hard decisions seemingly yearly. but yeah, we shall see. i'm not predicting this as a lock by any means. i dunno what the cap will look like in 2 yrs and what zajac's contract against it will look like, or what he'll do in this upcoming season to stake his value on the re-building devils. but if zajac has another stinker season (he aint 24 anymore), i'd say he'd be a candidate to be left unprotected if there are no nhl rules about max value on unprotected players. if no one were to take him in expansion... that'd be surprising. but if that happened, he comes back to earning millions of dollars a year. i think he'd be okay. This might be an interesting exercise with everything so quiet. Who would we protect? Here were the rules for the 2000 expansion from Wikipedia: - One goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards or two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards. - For teams protecting only one goaltender, there was no experience requirement for those left unprotected. For teams protecting two goaltenders, each goaltender left unprotected must have appeared in either 10 NHL games in the 1999–2000 season or 25 games in the 1998–99 season and 1999–2000 seasons combined. A goaltender had to be in net for at least 31 minutes in each game for the game to be counted against these totals. - At least one defenceman left unprotected by each team had to have appeared in at least 40 games in the 1999–2000 season or 70 games in the 1998–99 season and 1999–2000 seasons combined. At least two forwards left unprotected by each team had to have met the same requirements. Schneider Merrill Gelinas Greene Larsson Severson Cam Henrique Zajac Palmieri Boucher Matteau Josefson 2 scrubs I'm realizing now that it's probably hard without a full team yet. But with the team we have now, that's what I'd do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) re: zajac (and others), nobody is mentioning NMC and NTC which would require being protected. so players that have to be protected: zajac elias clowe cammalleri rutuu(!) zubrus(!!) greene schneider that's 6 f, 1 d and 1g so protect 3 more f and 4 more d henrique palmieri josefson larsson merrill severson gelinas John Moore would be the guy that would fill in the GP requirement for defensemen left unprotected. As for forwards, Boucher and Matteau would have to be exposed. And Kinkaid would be exposed. Assuming 2 teams come in at the same time to keep it balanced, and to make it fair to all teams, there would likely be 60 players selected (2 per existing team). But you can only have a 23 man active roster so I'm not sure what would happen with the other 7 players selected. i doubt any teams are currently even thinking about it, but it's probably not a bad idea to keep this in mind for contracts that will be in place in 2 years. Edited July 8, 2015 by sundstrom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 re: zajac (and others), nobody is mentioning NMC and NTC which would require being protected. so players that have to be protected: zajac elias clowe cammalleri rutuu(!) zubrus(!!) greene schneider that's 6 f, 1 d and 1g so protect 3 more f and 4 more d henrique palmieri josefson larsson merrill severson gelinas John Moore would be the guy that would fill in the GP requirement for defensemen left unprotected. As for forwards, Boucher and Matteau would have to be exposed. And Kinkaid would be exposed. Assuming 2 teams come in at the same time to keep it balanced, and to make it fair to all teams, there would likely be 60 players selected (2 per existing team). But you can only have a 23 man active roster so I'm not sure what would happen with the other 7 players selected. i doubt any teams are currently even thinking about it, but it's probably not a bad idea to keep this in mind for contracts that will be in place in 2 years. Do NMC's actually require being protected from expansion drafts? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Do NMC's actually require being protected from expansion drafts? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk it doesn't say from 2000 expansion draft but I don't recall if it was actually something that was even out there to begin with. i actually looked at the latest expansion drafts in all 4 leagues and there wasn't a requirement to protect no trade/no move players. but i'd bet that it would be something that would have to be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) I don't even think NMC's were a thing 15 years ago. Some guys had NTC's, but they were really good players who'd likely be protected anyway. Now everyone has a NMC/NTC. Edited July 9, 2015 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themightyall Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) it doesn't say from 2000 expansion draft but I don't recall if it was actually something that was even out there to begin with. i actually looked at the latest expansion drafts in all 4 leagues and there wasn't a requirement to protect no trade/no move players. but i'd bet that it would be something that would have to be considered. I was confused too. It seemed like it didn't have anything protected about prospects either. So say a person like Zacha who would have his ELC most likely sliding; would they have had to protect him previously? Would we have to protect him too? Obviously it's still speculation now because it's for the future expansion but how did teams fill their prospect rosters (the 50 man roster) before? Edit: It almost seemed like in the previous system, it would be good to do 2 goaltenders since we could protect Kinky and Schneider, then automatically protect someone like Blackwood if we had to worry about prospects since he won't play 10 games. That's only if prospects were a worry, obviously. Edited July 9, 2015 by themightyall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.