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New Kovy Update ("As the Kovy Turns")


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#3201 njdevil26

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:05 PM

Well that's my last nerve.

No news, no reporters talking to us... just nothing. No kinds of updates from the Devils about ANYTHING. But of course they have no problem sending e-mails and letters and phone calls to try to get us to buy tickets. I am officially OUT OF HERE until he signs. Have fun everyone.
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#3202 Neb00rs

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:06 PM

Yeah, maybe a Russian hockey league with three teams.

Point about Sundin is that he absolutely screwed the Leafs for totally selfish reasons. I can't imagine that he was too stupid to realize that. That it was for only three months is exactly the point. Just as it would have been no skin off Sundin's back to play in another city for another few months when the team he supposedly loved would be better off in the long run. The same way a guy who you've signed to stick around for a long time, might achave his own selfish reasons to want to play through the life of the deal might not take one for the team.

I don't understand how the Sundin case relates. It's not like there was 5 years left on his contract and he intended to play out all five years while refusing to be traded. He played almost his whole career with the Leafs and wanted to finish up the season in Toronto.

Don't fault Sundin for a poorly managed team. After all, they're over the cap with a mediocre team.

Well that's my last nerve.


No news, no reporters talking to us... just nothing. No kinds of updates from the Devils about ANYTHING. But of course they have no problem sending e-mails and letters and phone calls to try to get us to buy tickets. I am officially OUT OF HERE until he signs. Have fun everyone.

Oh you know you'll be back before then. This thread is a drug.

Edited by ben00rs, 09 July 2010 - 03:10 PM.

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#3203 Daniel

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:09 PM

okay there's just no debating the fact that he was asked to leave and would've preferred to stay. would this sort of behavior be expected in any other business besides sports?



and some more poor logic. there is a giant gap between the two. a no-trade clause is an article negotiated in good faith between a team and a player. it's not mandatory. if the leafs had wanted to have the ability to trade sundin, they should've negotiated a contract without a no-trade clause.



You keep missing (or intentionally avoiding) the point. It was THREE MONTHS to get a team that was clearly going nowhere that year something valuable in return. If it were another job where the company had been more than generous to me over the years, and asked me to go somewhere else for a few months while still getting my full salary if it would be beneficial to the health of the company, I'd be a jerk not to accept.

Otherwise you're creating a distinction without a difference. How you arrive at a right has nothing to do with when it might be appropriate to waive it.
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#3204 njdevil26

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:10 PM

I don't understand how the Sundin case relates. It's not like there was 5 years left on his contract and he intended to play out all five years while refusing to be traded. He played almost his whole career with the Leafs and wanted to finish up the season in Toronto.

Don't fault Sundin for a poorly managed team. After all, they're over the cap with a mediocre team.


Oh you know you'll be back before then. This thread is a drug.


After I get up in a few minutes and leave the office. I'm done with it. I swear. I'm so aggravated at the time I've wasted.
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#3205 justdo3043

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:12 PM

other then the ninja's this is what i thought of today


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"The $297,297 Kovalchuk missed today is money he will never, ever get back. And the more cheques he misses, the better the deal is going to have to be for the players to justify him sitting out. And unlike the owners, the players can direct their leadership to get a deal done regardless of how disadvantageous it is to them."

#3206 Pepperkorn

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:12 PM

After I get up in a few minutes and leave the office. I'm done with it. I swear. I'm so aggravated at the time I've wasted.

suuuure -- we'll know it's you - the "guest" or worse yet: the "anonymous user"
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#3207 Neb00rs

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:15 PM

After I get up in a few minutes and leave the office. I'm done with it. I swear. I'm so aggravated at the time I've wasted.

Lol Read that aloud to yourself. You see what I mean about it being a drug? Sounds like something you'd say in an AA meeting. This thread is horrible.

Edited by ben00rs, 09 July 2010 - 03:17 PM.

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#3208 msweet

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:17 PM

I want a signing noooooooowwwww. :evilcry: :evilcry:


Monday I'd guess... waited so long might as well give it the weekend to convince the wife... maybe a trip to the Jersey Shore? A night at the Borgota? A quick drive from EWR to NYC for the Day?
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#3209 John Wensink

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:17 PM

other then the ninja's this is what i thought of today

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP0kWqJJZa4&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url]



LOG from Blammo....pure classic. MADE MY DAY!
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#3210 Daniel

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:19 PM

I don't understand how the Sundin case relates. It's not like there was 5 years left on his contract and he intended to play out all five years while refusing to be traded. He played almost his whole career with the Leafs and wanted to finish up the season in Toronto.

Don't fault Sundin for a poorly managed team. After all, they're over the cap with a mediocre team.


Oh you know you'll be back before then. This thread is a drug.


Actual scenario with Sundin; Leafs management: Hey Mats we have a deal worked out where we can get a first or second round pick in exchange for you spending the last three months of the season with a competitive team. Mats: Too bad, deals a deal. I'm comfortable here, and I can't stand to miss the Toronto local news for three months, so you're not gonna have that extra pick.

Potential scenario with aging superstar signed to long-term deal: (Very old) Lou: Ilya, your 40 years old, you're cap hit is enormous for very little actual take home pay per year for the life of the deal. Why don't you hang'em up and give us the cap space to re-sign a super awesome Matthias Tedenby. Kind of old Kovy: Deals a deal. I lI'm comfortable here, still think I'm good enough to be competitive, so I guess Matthias is just gonna go have to sign with the Rangers.

The common strand here is that both players are choosing not to sacrifice very little for an organization that was very good to them over the years.
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#3211 mrthemike

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:19 PM

Monday I'd guess... waited so long might as well give it the weekend to convince the wife... maybe a trip to the Jersey Shore? A night at the Borgota? A quick drive from EWR to NYC for the Day?


That would convince almost anyone NOT to stay. LOL.
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#3212 Devilsfan118

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:19 PM

After I get up in a few minutes and leave the office. I'm done with it. I swear. I'm so aggravated at the time I've wasted.


Home has been my escape from all of this waiting garbage. I have the thread up in the background all day, hoping for an update. I leave work pissed off at yet another day without a signing, then don't think about it until work the next morning. Waiting for that text update from twitter is enough for me.
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#3213 njdevil26

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:22 PM

Well this weekend while I'm not working I won't be sitting in front of the computer all day and hopefully that'll help me stay away. I'm just so freaking frustrated.
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#3214 justdo3043

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:27 PM

number 1 is great


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"The $297,297 Kovalchuk missed today is money he will never, ever get back. And the more cheques he misses, the better the deal is going to have to be for the players to justify him sitting out. And unlike the owners, the players can direct their leadership to get a deal done regardless of how disadvantageous it is to them."

#3215 Neb00rs

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:28 PM

Actual scenario with Sundin; Leafs management: Hey Mats we have a deal worked out where we can get a first or second round pick in exchange for you spending the last three months of the season with a competitive team. Mats: Too bad, deals a deal. I'm comfortable here, and I can't stand to miss the Toronto local news for three months, so you're not gonna have that extra pick.


I don't think you're way out there for arguing this point but Toronto shouldn't have relied on their longest tenured player/captain to just up and leave for three months.

My take:

Leafs Management: Hey Mats, we know you want to finish up as a leaf and that you put in a solid effort over your career here. But now trading you would benefit us, so please waive your no-trade clause and get the fvck out of here. Thanks for everything.

Mats: Ummmm,, yea...I think I'll stay here you a$$holes.


13 years and 5 Stanley Cups later...

Potential scenario with aging superstar signed to long-term deal: (Very old) Lou: Ilya, your 40 years old, you're cap hit is enormous for very little actual take home pay per year for the life of the deal. Why don't you hang'em up and give us the cap space to re-sign a super awesome Matthias Tedenby. Kind of old Kovy: Deals a deal. I lI'm comfortable here, still think I'm good enough to be competitive, so I guess Matthias is just gonna go have to sign with the Rangers.

Fixed.
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#3216 newarkdev01

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:30 PM

Home has been my escape from all of this waiting garbage. I have the thread up in the background all day, hoping for an update. I leave work pissed off at yet another day without a signing, then don't think about it until work the next morning. Waiting for that text update from twitter is enough for me.


Gotta be honestly, that is kinda scary...sort of like me going to Bon Jovi tonight scary...
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#3217 Daniel

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:34 PM

but Toronto shouldn't have relied on their longest tenured player/captain to just up and leave for three months.



Funny thing is, when Mats pulled a Brett Favre and decided to come back and play with a team on the other side of Canada, that's more or less what he did on his own.
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#3218 Neb00rs

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:45 PM

Funny thing is, when Mats pulled a Brett Favre and decided to come back and play with a team on the other side of Canada, that's more or less what he did on his own.

But like GB with Favre, Sundin knew Toronto wouldn't take him back.
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#3219 David Puddy

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:45 PM

Why stop there? Why not make it a 80 year, $104million deal, the same as this purported one only with an additional $2mill spread over the last 63 years. (that's a cap hit of $1.3million in case you wanted to know)

I think one way to absolutely end the whole practice would be to make cap hit the larger of the following two things: the actual salary for the player this season; the average salary over the lifetime of the contract. Obviously no GM would ever sign a player to a deal with different salaries in different years ever again, so that squashes the idea altogether.
Unless there's something I'm missing?


I think the better solution is to require teams to "pay back" the cap hit if a player retires early and total salary paid is great than the total cap space used.

e.g., you sign someone to a 15-year deal at $8m for the first 10 and $2m for the last 5. This is a cap hit of $6m. Now let's say the player retires after year 10.

Total salary paid after 10 years = $80m

Total cap value used in those 10 years = $60m

The team "owes" $20m in cap value, so they should required to pay that back. The simplest would be to pay the total $20m over the remaining years of the contract for a cap hit of $4m in each of the next 5 years.

The idea behind this is that by creating a front-loaded contract, the team effectively borrows cap space from the later years of the contract during the early years of the contract. For fairness, at the end of the contract total cap hit should be the same as total salary paid, so the team should have to "pay back" the cap space they borrowed from the later years of the contract. This would take away the impetus for deals where the team expects the player to retire before the end.

Similarly, if a player retires or otherwise leaves the NHL before the end of a back-loaded deal, the team should get a cap credit. Take a deal paying $1m in year 1 and $4m in years 2 and 3 for a cap hit of $3m. If the player retires after year 1, the team will have used $3m in cap space but only paid the player $1m. They should get a $2m total cap credit, or $1m in each of the last 2 years of the contract.
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#3220 Neb00rs

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:49 PM

I think the better solution is to require teams to "pay back" the cap hit if a player retires early and total salary paid is great than the total cap space used.

e.g., you sign someone to a 15-year deal at $8m for the first 10 and $2m for the last 5. This is a cap hit of $6m. Now let's say the player retires after year 10.

Total salary paid after 10 years = $80m

Total cap value used in those 10 years = $60m

The team "owes" $20m in cap value, so they should required to pay that back. The simplest would be to pay the total $20m over the remaining years of the contract for a cap hit of $4m in each of the next 5 years.

This is a good idea. But, the problem is that the penalty does not count against the cap. A team like NYR or Chicago wouldn't mind paying the cap hit back if they really wanted to pull a long-term offer with a low cap hit.

Really all that is, is a long-term luxury tax.

Edited by ben00rs, 09 July 2010 - 03:50 PM.

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