Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) Clemmensen would be just as good as a prospect. Look, Clemmensen obviously isn't an NHL-quality goaltender, but he's pretty close to it - he's got to be one of the best veteran AHL goalies, for sure. Even if the Devils had drafted a goalie in the last 3 years, Clemmensen would be the one on the roster, not that new goalie - goalie prospects take longer than that to develop. Since Lou has not at all hesitated about taking goalies in the 1st round in the past even with Brodeur in the stable, it's clear that he hasn't thought highly enough of the goalies in these drafts to get one. Clemmer is a terrbile option ( his stint on the leafs last year was a disaster 2 full games GAA of 3.900) !!! But my Issue is more with the future of the organisation, not this current situation (which has put it back into perspective how important it is). Look at it this way, imagine Martys career had just been ended due to this injury, then look at our depth chart, then assess where we would have been left. We would be F**ked, It IS terrible! Most people only consider Frazee as our only prospect, for an entire position! Most NHL teams have at least 4 prospects in the system. We should have been puicking up players with some potential in the second and third round Like Johnas Enroth and at least having a backup plan. As you pointed out Goalies take longer to develop than regular players, hence we should have already started looking for Martys replacement, even in this draft we could have picked up a few of the better prospects in the second or third like Hari Satteri and at least started to develop someone. Edited November 5, 2008 by Chimaira_Devil_#9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 As bad as it is, im not all that shaken up about the injury. Why? 1. Weekes is a solid goalie who can hold the fort down 2. Rolston and Martin, and all the other injured players are coming back soon 3. At least Marty will be rested for the 2nd half and playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Clemmer is a terrbile option ( his stint on the leafs last year was a disaster 2 full games GAA of 3.900) !!!But my Issue is more with the future of the organisation, not this current situation (which has put it back into perspective how important it is). Look at it this way, imagine Martys career had just been ended due to this injury, then look at our depth chart, then assess where we would have been left. We would be F**ked, It IS terrible! Most people only consider Frazee as our only prospect, for an entire position! Most NHL teams have at least 4 prospects in the system. We should have been puicking up players with some potential in the second and third round Like Johnas Enroth and at least having a backup plan. As you pointed out Goalies take longer to develop than regular players, hence we should have already started looking for Martys replacement, even in this draft we could have picked up a few of the better prospects in the second or third like Hari Satteri and at least started to develop someone. 2 games isn't enough to draw on for clemmensen. he's shown he can be a 3rd goalie in this league. most nhl teams have 4 prospect goalies? c'mon now. that just isn't true. and even if it were true, at least two of those prospects would be terrible. and if they weren't terrible and all of them had an NHL future, Lou should just sit on his hands and wait for these NHL guys to bubble up to the surface and get them for cheap because there's only 60 spots for goalies in the NHL. if brodeur were out and we had one of these goalie prospects, we'd be right where we were before. lou picks the best players available, he doesn't care about position. if he didn't think any of these goalies had the potential to be a future starter, he should've avoided them, because there's no use to cultivating backups in your own system - they are readily available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daneyko_booster Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Marty's deal with the devil finally ended. He went down for two reasons: 1) he lost his protective layer of whale blubber with all this personal training nonsense. He should go back to his old routine of riding a bike, stretching, and drinking sprite. 2) hubris, just like all the greek heroes. on a team that never markets individuals and emphasizes a team first attitude at all times, he was closing in on individual records and changed his mask from a team symbol to his own initials and numbers, and the gods smote him down for his pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 As bad as it is, im not all that shaken up about the injury. Why?1. Weekes is a solid goalie who can hold the fort down 2. Rolston and Martin, and all the other injured players are coming back soon 3. At least Marty will be rested for the 2nd half and playoffs You cannot take #2 to the bank. The team is not interested in letting us know the full extend to these players' injuries. We honestly have no idea what is wrong with Martin as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) Clemmer is a terrbile option ( his stint on the leafs last year was a disaster 2 full games GAA of 3.900) !!!But my Issue is more with the future of the organisation, not this current situation (which has put it back into perspective how important it is). Look at it this way, imagine Martys career had just been ended due to this injury, then look at our depth chart, then assess where we would have been left. We would be F**ked, It IS terrible! Most people only consider Frazee as our only prospect, for an entire position! Most NHL teams have at least 4 prospects in the system. We should have been puicking up players with some potential in the second and third round Like Johnas Enroth and at least having a backup plan. As you pointed out Goalies take longer to develop than regular players, hence we should have already started looking for Martys replacement, even in this draft we could have picked up a few of the better prospects in the second or third like Hari Satteri and at least started to develop someone. This where 1st-rounders JF Damphousse ('97) and Ari Ahonen ('99) not becoming anything stings a little, although if either had really shown much, they likely would have been dealt for something fairly significant anyway...as it turned out, Damphousse became a throw-in in the Freisen deal, and Ahonen was never able to win the backup job, despite being given chance after chance to do so. It's not much to go on, but when I saw Ahonen in the pregame warmups (backing up Clemmensen when Marty hurt his knee) he looked absolutely terrible and extremely beatable. Edited November 5, 2008 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils01 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 we will be fine marty hasent been playing all that well anyways in weeks we trust!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) 2 games isn't enough to draw on for clemmensen. he's shown he can be a 3rd goalie in this league.most nhl teams have 4 prospect goalies? c'mon now. that just isn't true. and even if it were true, at least two of those prospects would be terrible. and if they weren't terrible and all of them had an NHL future, Lou should just sit on his hands and wait for these NHL guys to bubble up to the surface and get them for cheap because there's only 60 spots for goalies in the NHL. I didnt say they were all top quallity, but having two good prospects and two awfull is better than having, one mediocre player. And i know not all of them are going to make the NHL, but have a look on Hockeys future (which i did before i made my post) each team has a depth chart, most teams have 3-4 prospective goalies in their organisation, we have ONE. If you want some proof here is the Central divisions entire Depth chart: St Louis: Goaltenders Ben Bishop 7.5C Jake Allen 7.0C Marek Schwarz 7.0C Konstantin Barulin 7.0D Reto Berra 6.0C Nashville: Goaltenders Chet Pickard 8.0C Mark Dekanich 7.5C Jeremy Smith 7.5D Atte Engren 6.0D Rustam Sidikov 3.0C Detroit: Goaltenders Thomas McCollum 8.0C Jimmy Howard 7.5C Daniel Larsson 7.0C Columbus: Goaltenders Steve Mason 7.5C Dan LaCosta 6.5C Allen York 7.0D Chicago: Goaltenders Corey Crawford 6.5C Josh Unice 7.0D Joe Fallon 6.0C Joe Palmer 5.5D 20 prospects in total, 5 teams in the division average per team 4. In the whole NHL there are only 4 teams with less than 3 goal tending prospects: Islanders Oilers Sens Devils Take a look if you dont believe me, but dont just say its not true because you haven't botherd to look. if brodeur were out and we had one of these goalie prospects, we'd be right where we were before. lou picks the best players available, he doesn't care about position. if he didn't think any of these goalies had the potential to be a future starter, he should've avoided them, because there's no use to cultivating backups in your own system - they are readily available. I aknowleged that in our current situation it wasn't a solution, but , as i stated if the scenario had been different and Marty was now done for good we have no back up plan. According to your theory rather than using a low value draft pick and getting someone in the third round and developing them over time, we wait till they actually look like they could be a solid starter, then their value goes up, we are now parting with potentially a first rounder and a roster player, (if they are a true number one, not a weekes), so then not only do we lose picks for futrue drafts, we lose our other picks in the form of players we developed. All im saying is this is a huge hole in the organisation which Lou has done nothing to fill. Edited November 5, 2008 by Chimaira_Devil_#9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) Half of those guys probably won't even play for their respective team's AHL squad. You are still claiming that New Jersey should simply stockpile goalies. I am saying that based on Lou's history of taking goalies even though he has Martin Brodeur tells me that he's not neglecting the goalie position, he has simply not found one he likes enough to pick at a particular point. And given the general lack of any talent in this system about 2 years ago, I think taking a goalie with a high pick would be a rather large waste - and a tacit admission that Frazee isn't all he's cracked up to be. Now maybe you say, "Okay, fine, but if anyone could predict if a goalie was going to be a starter or a future backup at 18, they'd be a genius - you can't do that, you can only hope to stockpile a bunch of guys and hope one of them turns into a starter." That's fair. I'm just saying that if the guy's not there, he's not there. I have no doubt New Jersey will take a goalie in next year's draft, somewhere, or maybe even 2. If Brodeur's career is over, there's NEVER anything that can be done - it's time to sign a free agent goalie and move on. Edited November 6, 2008 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezer34 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I think by the time Febuary rolls around, we'll be looking at this as a blessing in disguise. ...maybe this is just me being pessimistic, but I feel it will be at least March until we see Marty again. (maybe April) Weekes had similar surgery in May, and in his own words wasn't 100% 'till September. The two big differences are -1. Kevin's biceps tendon wasn't completely torn from the bone, and -2. he's three years younger than Brodeur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Half of those guys probably won't even play for their respective team's AHL squad. I already said that not all of them will be of any great potential, and you answered that issue in your post. You are still claiming that New Jersey should simply stockpile goalies. I am saying that based on Lou's history of taking goalies even though he has Martin Brodeur tells me that he's not neglecting the goalie position, he has simply not found one he likes enough to pick at a particular point. And given the general lack of any talent in this system about 2 years ago, I think taking a goalie with a high pick would be a rather large waste - and a tacit admission that Frazee isn't all he's cracked up to be. No where did i mention the word stockpile, i fell there is a difference between having 2 or 3 options , than say doing what san Jose has done and have 7 prospective net minders, thats what i would call stockpiling, and I in no way feel the devils should persue this method, as you quite rightly point out, the holes in the Center and defensive positions were pretty vast the last few drafts, but taking one or two goalies over three years late in the draft wouldnt have hurt that much. On the issue of Frazee and admitting hes not good enough i just dont believe, and think it has reverse implications. The kid is seen as the only potential starter in the system to go on to replace Martin Broduer, because right now he is our only prospect, i think that might place a little bit of pressure on him , dont you think??? Everyone on here should know , no one will ever replace Marty, but Frazee is in a system where that is who he has effectivley been drafted in to replace, and would have a slightly different vue on the situation. With another two potential prospects in the system the pressure is relieved in the sense that an entire organisation looking soley at one young guy to replace the best ever, and yet is still maintained in a healthy way through means of competition on a level which is achievable Frazee's the current level. If Brodeur's career is over, there's NEVER anything that can be done - it's time to sign a free agent goalie and move on. I 100% agree there is nothing that can be done, he is the best , he is not replaceable, but i would rather bring in a Kid we have developed and is comfortable with the organisation than paying an overpriced FA to come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) So Brodeur's surgery is scheduled for this morning. I wonder how soon we'll hear an update... Edited November 6, 2008 by Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 So Brodeur's surgery is scheduled for this morning. I wonder how soon we'll hear an update... I'm anxious to here how it went myself, but we're Devils fans. The doc could accidentally saw his arm off and Lou would say 'the surgery went very well, and now we'll have to wait and see.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucifersDog Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I'm anxious to here how it went myself, but we're Devils fans. The doc could accidentally saw his arm off and Lou would say 'the surgery went very well, and now we'll have to wait and see.' How true is that? Lou needs to learn how to build a fan base and keep it alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 per TG: Lou says 100% success - time table still the same 3-4 months of recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 per TG: Lou says 100% success - time table still the same 3-4 months of recovery. 3 - 4 months is a long time. I realize the team could fall apart in that time, but I'm going to be optimistic and say that they will pull together and show that the Devils aren't only Brodeur. The return of Rolston and Holik as veteran leadership will help that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevils2003champs Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Sorry for the long delay in this message but this is a huge lost and now its time for the Devs to show there depth and for the defense and offense to step it up more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oconnellrules Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 this is terrible. but hey now he will rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice dog Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 i'm not sure i buy the 100% recovery line. having your bi-cep rip off the bone like busted serpentine belt in a car engine...hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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