NFL Week 4!

[Hi, I'm VALUE!]

Sparano's a clown.. plain & simple. A fat-ass feedbag that thinks he's cool, who got semi-fame off the Dolphins 11-5 record in 2008. Take the time to scratch the surface a little, and go check Miami's schedule that year. Of their 11 wins.. only TWO were against teams that had a winning record. (the Jets & NE) 2 fvcking wins!! And then they were one-&-done come playoff time, when the Ravens bitch`slapped them 30-9.

Since that playoff game, they have an overall win\loss record of 9-12. Their core players (Pennington, Taylor, Porter, etc) are all gone. And the wildcat is officially dead!

I wonder how bad the 2008 Jets would have gotten their asses kicked with a real schedule, considering they played 14 of the same 16 teams the Dolphins did.

And Rex Ryan is a skinny friendly man that doesn't need attention?

This +100

[grcenter47]

apparently Randy Moss might be going back to the Vikings...that should be interesting

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

apparently Randy Moss might be going back to the Vikings...that should be interesting

As a Pats fan I would love for this to happen. His first season with the Patriots was phenomenal, but it's been downhill ever since...he's gone back to taking plays off, not trying when he doesn't get enough balls thrown to him...against Miami there was a replay of him not even trying to throw a block when the play called for him to do so. And it's not at all hard to take him out of a game...just be physical with him and he'll disappear...he's not a tough football player and rarely ever has been. It wouldn't surprise me if he started trying again once if he goes to the Vikes, but I feel sorry for them if they sign him to an extension.

[CRASHER]

my money league fantasy team could sure use the boost of Moss wanting to play again I'll say.... but I'm wondering if this is a declining talent issue as much as an attitude one (though you kinda felt the Pats were sending a message Monday Night not throwing him a pass all 2nd half )

couple of other small releases too... Dwayne Jarrett (remember when he was gonna be the next Steve Smith ) and Julius Jones' NFL career seems FINALLY over

[MantaRay]

As a Pats fan I would love for this to happen. His first season with the Patriots was phenomenal, but it's been downhill ever since...he's gone back to taking plays off, not trying when he doesn't get enough balls thrown to him...against Miami there was a replay of him not even trying to throw a block when the play called for him to do so. And it's not at all hard to take him out of a game...just be physical with him and he'll disappear...he's not a tough football player and rarely ever has been. It wouldn't surprise me if he started trying again once if he goes to the Vikes, but I feel sorry for them if they sign him to an extension.

I disagree. The threat of Moss makes Welker and Faulk weapons. You can't blame Moss for a deteriorating defense and NO running game since Cory Dillen.

Moss is a leader in the lockerroom. This is Bellichek trying to outsmart himself similiar to what trading Richard Seymour did in destroy the Pats pass rush.

[SS#4-Life]

wow. there must be more than meets the eye here. cant believe theyd trade hikm for this late in the year

[Beezer34]

I wanted to wait until it became official before saying anything. And now it looks as though it is. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b1a1a9/article/vikings-reacquire-wr-moss-in-deal-with-patriots?module=HP_headlines

..all I can say is; Holy fvcking sh!t.

What the fvck are the Pats thinking?? Unless they have another trade planned for a top WR, this move is absolutely insane imo. I couldn't even believe what I was hearing this morning on WFAN, it shocked me so much. You don't go shake up chemistry on a 3-1 team going into Week 5.. I'm sorry.

Randy Moss is one of the best players on that team, and that's saying alot. His presence opens up so much underneath for others. You know why the league respects Brady's deep ball? Or why Wild`Wes is so hard to cover? Why Revis even got injured this year for that matter? -Randy Moss.

If he does nothing for 60 minutes.. he still commands coverage. Opposing team's defenses, still need to dedicate a player (or two) to Moss, and Moss alone. You know how many teams in the league have more wins than New England? ZERO! This is a quality football team, that could easily be 4-0.. and it aint' because of their defense, I can tell you that. They're winning games because of their offense.. and now they just traded their #1 receiver?! This is a team that, had they not put up 38 points.. may have lost to Buffalo in Week 2. That may have lost to Cincinnati, had they not scored 40 points. Their offense (an offense that lost Faulk & Taylor) is willing them to victory. And now you go and trade your star wide-receiver? He has only 9 reception's thus-far, and he still has 3 TD's in 4 games. I just don't understand the logic in this at all.

You want to talk to me about Welker & Woodhead.. bullsh!t. They're both great players, don't get me wrong. But Woodhead doesn't score that touchdown on Monday, if Moss isn't being double-covered. Welker doesn't have 2 TD's in Week 1, if Moss isn't being double-covered.

A quote from a Pats fans, off another message board; "..he's 33 years old. It was time." <--This is perhaps the dumbest comment I have read all day from the New England Loyalist's. But like the old saying goes; *Be careful what you wish for* ..'cause now Randy's gone.. and the excuses go with him.

Moss is a leader in the lockerroom. This is Bellichek trying to outsmart himself similiar to what trading Richard Seymour did in destroy the Pats pass rush.

..or, believing he doesn't need a defensive-coordinator for that matter. Let BB strap the pads on, and go play WR. Because I tell you what, with some of the recent decisions that have been made throughout that organization.. It would not surprise me in the least.

[MantaRay]

I guess BB is just going to give away the season to the Jets. This was a MAJOR mistake by the Pats.

[Jerrydevil]

What are you going to do when a star player wants out and it's affecting his play? Irreconcilable differences.

[Beezer34]

I guess BB is just going to give away the season to the Jets. This was a MAJOR mistake by the Pats.

..hold that thought Manta, there's still 2 weeks 'till the trade deadline. NE's got 8 draft picks in the first 4 rounds. I smell a deal for Vincent Jackson here. There's NO WAY that organization is stupid enough to trade Randy Moss when they're 3-1.. and be content with only getting a 3rd round draft pick in return.

[MantaRay]

What are you going to do when a star player wants out and it's affecting his play? Irreconcilable differences.

The star player in question does not want out. He wanted an extension to stay with the Pats. His play hasn't been affected, Moss still draws defenders away from Welker and Hernandez of late and still has a few TD's. Its not his fault special teams killed Miami

..hold that thought Manta, there's still 2 weeks 'till the trade deadline. NE's got 8 draft picks in the first 4 rounds. I smell a deal for Vincent Jackson here. There's NO WAY that organization is stupid enough to trade Randy Moss when they're 3-1.. and be content with only getting a 3rd round draft pick in return.

I thought the deadline for Jackson to play this year had past. They are left with nothing.

[Hi, I'm VALUE!]

I thought the deadline for Jackson to play this year had past. They are left with nothing.

Jackson has to miss some number of games on suspension. Three of them are NFL-imposed, and I think the Chargers imposed three more games on him because he didn't sign his tender. The compromise between the league, the chargers, and the union was that, were he traded in that time frame specified, he would have been eligible to play week 5, effectively cutting out a lot of his suspension time.

Any team that acquires him will have to eat at least a 3 game suspension, but I'm not sure if the "didn't sign suspension" is team or league imposed (meaning that New England could waive the suspension for the non-signing of tender if it's team-imposed.)

And I agree with just about everyone else's sentiment. New England is either planning another move or believes Brandon Tate and Aaron Hernandez can produce what Moss can. Or they're ceding this season as a lost one and will draft ridiculous amounts of players, which is still a huge gamble. I guess their feeling was "well, we're not extending him, so he's not staying, so get what you can for him in a trade."

I just wonder if this is enough to save Minnesota's season. 1-3 is not dead in the NFC, where the two teams above you in the division are 3-1, and one (Bears) is probably spiraling out if Cutler can't play. Even 1-4 is not doomsday, but now we're starting to talk about needing a lot to go right, like the NFC East and West to stay mediocre record-wise.

[MantaRay]

Jackson has to miss some number of games on suspension. Three of them are NFL-imposed, and I think the Chargers imposed three more games on him because he didn't sign his tender. The compromise between the league, the chargers, and the union was that, were he traded in that time frame specified, he would have been eligible to play week 5, effectively cutting out a lot of his suspension time.

Any team that acquires him will have to eat at least a 3 game suspension, but I'm not sure if the "didn't sign suspension" is team or league imposed (meaning that New England could waive the suspension for the non-signing of tender if it's team-imposed.)

And I agree with just about everyone else's sentiment. New England is either planning another move or believes Brandon Tate and Aaron Hernandez can produce what Moss can. Or they're ceding this season as a lost one and will draft ridiculous amounts of players, which is still a huge gamble. I guess their feeling was "well, we're not extending him, so he's not staying, so get what you can for him in a trade."

I just wonder if this is enough to save Minnesota's season. 1-3 is not dead in the NFC, where the two teams above you in the division are 3-1, and one (Bears) is probably spiraling out if Cutler can't play. Even 1-4 is not doomsday, but now we're starting to talk about needing a lot to go right, like the NFC East and West to stay mediocre record-wise.

THanks Value for the clarification.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

To everyone who is questioning the Moss deal, unless you watch the Pats every season, and most of their games (like I do), then it might be hard to understand this deal. Like I said, his first season as a Patriot was truly spectacular...the guy fought for every ball that came his way, and came down with catches that were truly mind-blowing. The last 2+ years, despite some good numbers, he hasn't been that player. He quits on a lot of plays, and there was one game last year in particular where it obvious to everyone he wasn't even trying. He's been in douche-mode since the beginning of the season, when he started pissing and moaning about his contract situation to the press...yes, he's a talent, but he's become more and more of a handful as his Pats career has worn on.

Even though they're 3-1, that defense is a big problem, and though the offense can put up points, they can be shut down by quality defenses (the Jets handled them just fine), so even if they go 10-6 or 11-5 or whatever, I can't see them going that deep into the playoffs. Not sure if the Pats hang on to all of those picks or not, but they need to rebuild this D in the worst way.

[Beezer34]

"..the Patriots scored over 40 points, without Moss getting a catch, and New England immediately was blinded by the notion of them; Not needing him. The problem there is, New England's special teams' isn't going to score 21 points for them every game. As we all saw this past Monday, Brady's got 100 career victories. 40 are with Moss. Brady's thrown 87 touchdown passes, since Randy joined the Patriots. 50 of those were to Moss. With Moss, the Patriots have only lost 12 games since 2007. With Moss, the Patriots have won two Division titles. With Moss, the Patriots won 16 games, during his first season in New England. With Moss, the Patriots went to a Superbowl. How will the New England Patriots look now without Moss? We're all about to find out." --Chris Myers. FOX Sports Radio.. Sirius-XM (142)

perfect

[grcenter47]

i can't imagine him playing as bad as he did when he was with the raiders

Edited October 6, 2010 by grcenter47

[CRASHER]

I thought the deadline for Jackson to play this year had past. They are left with nothing.

There was a deadling to waive the league-imposed suspension for him holding out, but the Chargers INSISTED on holding on to him... which is why AJ Smith became the "Lord of no Rings"

Loving the Moss debate... about time we had some intelligent football talk in here!!

Remember the WR corps that Brady won Super Bowls with.... I think the pats are trying to get back to that WR by committee mold...even Welker has a guy like him on the team in Edleman (sp?)

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

"..the Patriots scored over 40 points, without Moss getting a catch, and New England immediately was blinded by the notion of them; Not needing him. The problem there is, New England's special teams' isn't going to score 21 points for them every game. As we all saw this past Monday, Brady's got 100 career victories. 40 are with Moss. Brady's thrown 87 touchdown passes, since Randy joined the Patriots. 50 of those were to Moss. With Moss, the Patriots have only lost 12 games since 2007. With Moss, the Patriots have won two Division titles. With Moss, the Patriots won 16 games, during his first season in New England. With Moss, the Patriots went to a Superbowl. How will the New England Patriots look now without Moss? We're all about to find out." --Chris Myers. FOX Sports Radio.. Sirius-XM (142)

perfect

How many Super Bowls have they won with Moss? Without him they went to three Super Bowls and won them all. Suddenly due to Myers' selective memory Brady and the Pats did nothing until Moss arrived?

Only lost 12 games since 2007...if I say "lost only 12 games since 2008" (which is also true) that number is less impressive. The 16-0 season skews things a bit.

[Beezer34]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b1c854/article/belichicks-gamble-leaves-contending-patriots-short-on-talent?module=HP_cp2

"It's hard to question Bill Belichick's football decisions with the New England Patriots, but there are some rare exceptions.

One came last November, when he decided to go for it on fourth-and-2 from the Patriots' 28-yard line while holding a six-point lead with 2:08 left at Indianapolis last year. Predictably, the attempt failed, Peyton Manning got the ball, and the Colts got the win.

Now, in trading Randy Moss, Belichick has again made what looks like an ill-advised gamble.

There is no disputing the Patriots are significantly weaker without Moss, that they have gotten rid of one of the best players on their roster and don't have an equal replacement.

After Monday night's blowout victory in Miami, the Patriots had surged back into top-contender status in a league that doesn't offer a clear-cut best team. After saying good-bye to Moss, they appear to have become more ordinary and a lot less threatening.

Did Moss, who had made his displeasure over his contract a public issue from the start of the season, do something to infuriate Belichick to the point where he simply couldn't tolerate having him around? Or, and this seems more likely, did Belichick simply do what he often does (what he did right before last season by sending defensive lineman Richard Seymour to Oakland) and cash out on a veteran while the getting was good? If so, the move is highly questionable given the third-round pick the Patriots received from the Vikings.

Is such a head-scratching transaction going to end up making more sense because the Patriots will get disgruntled standout San Diego Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson? Don't hold your breath on that one. Jackson wants $30 million in guaranteed money and is a behavioral risk to boot.

Even at 33, Moss is still one of the most dynamic playmakers in the NFL, which is why Brett Favre is anxious to begin throwing passes to him in Minnesota and why Tom Brady (even if he never admits as much publicly) can't be all that happy.

Moss' mere presence on the field requires opposing defenses to make certain they have an answer for him. And in having an answer for Moss, they leave questions for themselves regarding Wes Welker and other Patriot receivers.

Supporters of the trade are quick to point out that the Patriots handily beat the Dolphins without Moss making a single catch.

But that win was driven by an inordinate number of big plays on special teams. Are the Patriots going to do that on a weekly basis? Doubtful. Just ask the Dolphins, whose Tuesday firing of their special-teams coach would strongly indicate that New England's success had a whole lot to do with their own failure in the kicking game.

Others who think shipping Moss out of town is a good idea cite the fact the Patriots won three Super Bowls before his arrival from Oakland. True, but the Patriots had a better defense during that run -- certainly a much stronger one than they have now.

The current version of the Patriots relies almost exclusively on offensive explosiveness to win games. Moss was a huge part of that mixture. Let's not forget the three touchdown catches he made through the first three weeks of the season, including that incredible, one-handed gem against the New York Jets. Let's not forget his ability to get open for the game-breaking play at any time.

Brady certainly won't.

Sure, he still has Welker, and rookie Brandon Tate has shown promise. He also has a new, exciting target in rookie tight end Aaron Hernandez, and the Patriots' passing attack is making greater use of the tight end than it has in previous years. However, tight ends benefit from Moss' ability to draw coverage just as any other New England pass-catcher. Someone with Hernandez's skills would clearly benefit more than previous tight ends who weren't as talented and, therefore, given a lesser role.

Expect opponents to adjust their coverage to focus on minimizing Welker and Hernandez. That should be a little easier to do now that they don't have Moss to worry about ... unless they have the Vikings on their schedule." --Vic Carucci NFL.com

..again, PERFECT!

[Devils Dose]

You know what the Pats should do. . . turn this set of scattered picks into a smaller group of first round picks, because once the new collective bargainning agreement is set, those will be things that you'll actually want to have.

I don't seem them using all the picks as they are. That's the way to rebuild a defense in 2-3 years, not for next season.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b1c854/article/belichicks-gamble-leaves-contending-patriots-short-on-talent?module=HP_cp2

"It's hard to question Bill Belichick's football decisions with the New England Patriots, but there are some rare exceptions.

One came last November, when he decided to go for it on fourth-and-2 from the Patriots' 28-yard line while holding a six-point lead with 2:08 left at Indianapolis last year. Predictably, the attempt failed, Peyton Manning got the ball, and the Colts got the win.

Now, in trading Randy Moss, Belichick has again made what looks like an ill-advised gamble.

There is no disputing the Patriots are significantly weaker without Moss, that they have gotten rid of one of the best players on their roster and don't have an equal replacement.

After Monday night's blowout victory in Miami, the Patriots had surged back into top-contender status in a league that doesn't offer a clear-cut best team. After saying good-bye to Moss, they appear to have become more ordinary and a lot less threatening.

Did Moss, who had made his displeasure over his contract a public issue from the start of the season, do something to infuriate Belichick to the point where he simply couldn't tolerate having him around? Or, and this seems more likely, did Belichick simply do what he often does (what he did right before last season by sending defensive lineman Richard Seymour to Oakland) and cash out on a veteran while the getting was good? If so, the move is highly questionable given the third-round pick the Patriots received from the Vikings.

Is such a head-scratching transaction going to end up making more sense because the Patriots will get disgruntled standout San Diego Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson? Don't hold your breath on that one. Jackson wants $30 million in guaranteed money and is a behavioral risk to boot.

Even at 33, Moss is still one of the most dynamic playmakers in the NFL, which is why Brett Favre is anxious to begin throwing passes to him in Minnesota and why Tom Brady (even if he never admits as much publicly) can't be all that happy.

Moss' mere presence on the field requires opposing defenses to make certain they have an answer for him. And in having an answer for Moss, they leave questions for themselves regarding Wes Welker and other Patriot receivers.

Supporters of the trade are quick to point out that the Patriots handily beat the Dolphins without Moss making a single catch.

But that win was driven by an inordinate number of big plays on special teams. Are the Patriots going to do that on a weekly basis? Doubtful. Just ask the Dolphins, whose Tuesday firing of their special-teams coach would strongly indicate that New England's success had a whole lot to do with their own failure in the kicking game.

Others who think shipping Moss out of town is a good idea cite the fact the Patriots won three Super Bowls before his arrival from Oakland. True, but the Patriots had a better defense during that run -- certainly a much stronger one than they have now.

The current version of the Patriots relies almost exclusively on offensive explosiveness to win games. Moss was a huge part of that mixture. Let's not forget the three touchdown catches he made through the first three weeks of the season, including that incredible, one-handed gem against the New York Jets. Let's not forget his ability to get open for the game-breaking play at any time.

Brady certainly won't.

Sure, he still has Welker, and rookie Brandon Tate has shown promise. He also has a new, exciting target in rookie tight end Aaron Hernandez, and the Patriots' passing attack is making greater use of the tight end than it has in previous years. However, tight ends benefit from Moss' ability to draw coverage just as any other New England pass-catcher. Someone with Hernandez's skills would clearly benefit more than previous tight ends who weren't as talented and, therefore, given a lesser role.

Expect opponents to adjust their coverage to focus on minimizing Welker and Hernandez. That should be a little easier to do now that they don't have Moss to worry about ... unless they have the Vikings on their schedule." --Vic Carucci NFL.com

..again, PERFECT!

Oh yeah, it's perfect. This guy contradicts himself. On one hand, he's got the Patriots surging back into top-contender status because they blew out Miami (wrong...they're not a top contender with that defense, no way). Then he points out how the victory was driven in large part by Miami's failures on special teams (correct). So what are the Pats: a top contender or a team that got some flukey breaks that helped them go 3-1?

The author also correctly points out that the defense is not nearly as strong as the one that was a big factor in the previous Super Bowl victories. So again, how is this team a top contender?

3-1 doesn't have me fooled one bit...if Henne had shown more patience (Miami had guys open all over the place...Henne made some terrible decisions) and Miami's special teams hadn't imploded, that game is much closer...big ifs, to be fair, and I'm not taking anything away from my team, but I'm not now of the belief that the Pats have become this special teams terror, destined to block punts and kicks and return TDs on runbacks. You yourself pointed out how Buffalo gave NE all they could handle up in Foxboro...the Bills, who haven't really scored much against ANYONE except NE...does that sound like a true contender to you?

[SS#4-Life]

wow. seems like anyone that doesnt share your opinion doesnt know what theyr talking about. your reaching cr, and the records on skip

[CRASHER]

wow. seems like anyone that doesnt share your opinion doesnt know what theyr talking about. your reaching cr, and the records on skip

Is he though???

How many of the make some noise diva-WR's have rings???

[Jerrydevil]

People criticizing the trade don't know the whole story. This might have been very ugly behind closed doors. Given that it's drama queen Randy Moss that's involved, I'm sure you can imagine.

[MantaRay]

Oh yeah, it's perfect. This guy contradicts himself. On one hand, he's got the Patriots surging back into top-contender status because they blew out Miami (wrong...they're not a top contender with that defense, no way). Then he points out how the victory was driven in large part by Miami's failures on special teams (correct). So what are the Pats: a top contender or a team that got some flukey breaks that helped them go 3-1?

The author also correctly points out that the defense is not nearly as strong as the one that was a big factor in the previous Super Bowl victories. So again, how is this team a top contender?

3-1 doesn't have me fooled one bit...if Henne had shown more patience (Miami had guys open all over the place...Henne made some terrible decisions) and Miami's special teams hadn't imploded, that game is much closer...big ifs, to be fair, and I'm not taking anything away from my team, but I'm not now of the belief that the Pats have become this special teams terror, destined to block punts and kicks and return TDs on runbacks. You yourself pointed out how Buffalo gave NE all they could handle up in Foxboro...the Bills, who haven't really scored much against ANYONE except NE...does that sound like a true contender to you?

I think your right. 3-1 is an illusion. I find it unlikely that the NE special teams are going duplicate Monday night.