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GDT - 12/23 Devils at Blackhawks


Mike Brown

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We're not deep enough into the season to worry about the standings and points right now. Wait until the 50th game for that. He needs to be given every opportunity to get in his groove.

He does deserve the opportunity to get 5 or 6 consecutive starts. That's the problem. Right out of the gate he was being shafted. Lou didn't give up his 1st round pick for a backup. He fully intended Schneider to be the number one guy. He's the more important goalie to this team.

Lol 50th game? The 2010-11 team didn't start playing until about game 40 and they still ended up outside the playoffs after posting the best second half record in the league. You don't get into the playoffs in the first half but you can sure as hell miss them Edited by DevsMan84
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I'm sorry does anyone actually believe marty in net tonight would have made the difference? Would our team have MAGICALLY been a cup contender team with 3 lines of deep scoring?

 

We got out worked by the best team in the league.

 

Marty gave up 4 goals the other night against a Caps team that could very well finish 4th/5th in the worst division in hockey.

 

Get fvcking real people. Cory gives us the best chance to win, either goalie was going to get lit up tonight.

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Lol 50th game? The 2010-11 team didn't start playing until about game 40 and they still ended up outside the playoffs after posting the best second half record in the league. You don't get into the playoffs in the first half but you can sure as hell miss them

 

We're not in the same position as we were in 2010-2011.  We're not gonna be in position by game 41 to be out of the playoff picture.

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This game just had too many obstacles to overcome. I would've been surprised if this wasn't the result.

 

4th Game in 6 nights, with travel, this team which skews older with overtime been played a bunch lately.

 

Going in with couple rookies who have never played in the United Center, against a team like that.

It's alright though, but they need these three days off to renergize and come back with a vengence this weekend.

 

Clowe should be in the lineup, and they'll go from there.

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I came to a blank lol.. We need to win games period

 

Yes I know we need to win games.  My whole point is, that both Schneider and Marty are sucking right now.  I get that.  But Schneider is the more important goalie going forward.  Lou gave up his first round pick to Vancouver with the intention of making Cory Schneider our franchise goalie.  Schneider has to be the guy given the net.  When he's at the top of his game, he's significantly the better goalie than Brodeur.  Brodeur can still be a good goalie, so don't get me wrong.  But Schneider is the guy we invested a lot in, and has to be the guy going forward.  Schneider gives the Devils a better chance to win games.

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This game just had too many obstacles to overcome. I would've been surprised if this wasn't the result.

 

4th Game in 6 nights, with travel, this team which skews older with overtime been played a bunch lately.

 

Going in with couple rookies who have never played in the United Center, against a team like that.

It's alright though, but they need these three days off to renergize and come back with a vengence this weekend.

 

Clowe should be in the lineup, and they'll go from there.

 

I like your rational thinking.  lol

 

But I agree with all of this.  The rookies all made some bad mistakes tonight.  It's a good learning experience though.  I can live with the loss tonight.  I wish they had put forth a better effort though.  We're 4 points behind Toronto, 7 points behind Detroit, 6 points behind Washington, and only 1 point behind Philly.  We shouldn't get too crazy over this loss.

 

Oddly enough, the game was winnable had the team decided to show up.  Chicago was pretty flat too imo.

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He's never been given the opportunity.  He deserves the chance.

 

Why does he deserve the chance? He needs to earn it by winning games. 

 

Cory - 17GP  4-8-5, 2.20 GAA, .910, 2 SO

 

Marty - 21GP 11-8-2, 2.38 GAA, .902, 3 SO

 

While Cory's numbers are better, they aren't better by enough to offset the win column. Cory has to gain the confidence of his coach and team mates, and he has to seize his opportunities. 

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Well, this weekend we have a back to back against two teams that the team, if they want to be considered a team that even deserves to be in the conversation... "should" beat. Cory will obviously get one of these games. I'd even like to see him get both games because I think that's a better guage of what he's dealing with right now. Cory's lost his last three to some Stanley Cup contenders. Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Chicago. Marty's past three opponents haven't been on this level. If Cory struggles against the Jackets or Isles... then yes, we should probably be worried.

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As I said at the trade.  It's Marty's job until Cory takes it.  Cory has not taken it.  Pete has tried, but Cory just hasn't.  Marty is streaky, but Marty is winning.  This isn't baseball where your offense is not affected but pitching,  Marty plays the puck more.  Cory while getting better isn't on the same page with he D all the time.  Blame the rookies a bit casue Marty hasn't been on the same page with them a couple times, but Cory just doesn't help himself when he's out of his crease.  And he stops play too often, Marty just has a better feel for wheat the team needs.  

 

 

Marty would be starting goalie if the devs played playoffs right now,

 

All that being said, was just an off night.  Cory will be the goalie of the future,  Whether that future is next season or by the end of this season is up to Cory stepping up when Marty goes in one of his bad streaks.  Cause if Marty is playing well, it's Marty's job and he deserves it.  

 

And if it's like now and both aren't on their A game, it's still Marty's job.  Cory is the future, but Marty has been here 20 fvcking years which is why their is so much Cory trolling tonight because of the double standard with some posters that have to take shots every game towards Marty even when when he wins. 

 

 

As for tonight,  one of a few bad games of the year.  I would be much more worried if they haven't played every other top team well.  3 in 4 nights, 4 in 6 nights,  road,, xmas break,  Didn't think it started bad, but once there was, the fight wasn't there.  again, don't come back from down 2 last game, more worried, but the team has had the heart most of the year.  so to quote AEN 'what, me worry?'

 

teddy look like he will have more value on another team,  shows flashes but I just don't see it.  

 

I like jj's game but he needs to show more killer instinct on the kill.  Glad it was back for the team a few games ago cause I don't remember the offensive chances like we've had the previous years under Pete.  I thought jj had a few chance to push but either didn't see it or didn't think it.  i'm not sure which is worse.

 

i really want to see Larsson and Gelly as a pair for every game they are healthy for the next, I don't know, dozen years?  Glad there is the break.  I think he needs to balance his game again,  Gelly has impressed me with his skating,  

 

Whole team has seemed to be skating out of the zone better on the pp.  Different breakouts? more confidence?  Anyone care to explain?

 

Speaking of Cory taking control,  Who is gonna step up to be the clear number 2 line?  Ryder is making his case.  Boucher has the skills and has a more complete game then I was expecting, Hit the post tonight, I think I saw him out there on a shift with Patty and Jagr, Maybe it was just a broken line change but that is getting a young skill player a chance if I've ever seen one.

 

took 5 of a tough 8

 

6 of the next 8 games are home games.  Take 12 of 16, including payback for tonight's loss and the team will be in a good place.

 

 

 

 

I can just imagine this board next year when Marty signs a 1 year deal while Cory extends for 8 on the same day.   That's how Lou rolls

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Good post man... one thing I will definitely agree with is on Cory stopping play VERY often. Maybe he's just completely lacking the confidence to move the puck or keep play alive because he gets that defensive zone faceoff almost every time he gets a chance. I'm not really sure that's a good thing at all.

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Why does he deserve the chance? He needs to earn it by winning games. 

 

Cory - 17GP  4-8-5, 2.20 GAA, .910, 2 SO

 

Marty - 21GP 11-8-2, 2.38 GAA, .902, 3 SO

 

While Cory's numbers are better, they aren't better by enough to offset the win column. Cory has to gain the confidence of his coach and team mates, and he has to seize his opportunities. 

 

He deserves the chance because he's the better goalie.  He deserves the chance because Lou made a big sacrifice to get him.  He deserves the chance because the alternative has played worse.  Cory is the more important goalie to this team.

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He deserves the chance because he's the better goalie.  He deserves the chance because Lou made a big sacrifice to get him.  He deserves the chance because the alternative has played worse.  Cory is the more important goalie to this team.

 

Then maybe they should stop getting outshot 35-15 in half of the games he plays in, there's more to playing goalie that stopping the puck and his numbers are not much better anymore.   So basically everyone bitched about Marty being entitled to the job even though he wasn't winning and was shot, and now Schneider is entitled to the job even though he's not winning and isn't really playing significantly better.

Edited by maxpower
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Right now Cory's playing 'why is he still playing bad' too...his GAA's 3.4 for the month and he's done something bad in just about every game (the hideous first goal at Pittsburgh, the nightmare shootout against the Habs and tonight's trainwreck with two bad goals).  Marty's not been much better this month but at least he's going to have confidence.  Cory has none at the moment, and at SOME point four wins in 17 games ain't gonna cut it.

 

It doesn't help Cory's playing playoff teams practically every game either, they need to give him a couple of soft landing games and try to get him some W's and get his confidence back.

No doubt Schneider's had a bad December but to me it was more like "this is a NHL goalie in a slump" and not the "why is this old guy flailing around the crease." I love Brodeur, but when he's been bad, he's been really bad. Schneider by far has had fewer horrendous games.

 

I really hope Schneider works out too as if he doesn't then I think this could be the move that might end Lou's career with the devils. To say we passed up some good talent on the board to get Schneider is looking like a big understatement.

I said it back at the draft after I got over my initial shock of the trade, I like this deal if Lou signs Schneider to an extension this summer, otherwise I hate it. If Brodeur decides to come back for another year then I'd look to trade Schneider to a contender desperate for goaltending this summer. I can't imagine Schneider being happy spending another year of his career in a goaltending controversy and I would doubt he'd want to stay with the organization then after that final year on his contract. Either next year this is his team or he should be moved.

 

That's the other pink elephant in the room...although you know they weren't picking the Russian kid anyway considering the Kovy/KHL mess.  It would have been even more embarassing passing him up for another prospect as opposed to taking a shot at Cory, at least you could rationalize it away then trading off one need for another need that's more of a proven commodity.

I don't think passing up on Nichushkin would've been embarrassing. Horvat's a solid prospect and was my favorite entering the draft out of all the guys that I thought would be available for the Devils. I would've been thrilled to have him. Horvat may not have that high end potential or beautiful offensive touch like Nichushkin but he really seems to have a good shot of being a solid 2 way 2nd line C for years to come.

 

Cory could be lights out, but if the guys in front of him don't play as well as they do in front of Marty then forget it.

I doubt anything Brodeur does really impacts the offense enough to make up for this much of a difference. Of course he is much better at playing the puck and helping the breakout occasionally but I doubt it's enough to account for that much more offense in a game. Maybe he helps add a few goals over the course of the full year which in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that much.

 

Why does he deserve the chance? He needs to earn it by winning games. 

 

Cory - 17GP  4-8-5, 2.20 GAA, .910, 2 SO

 

Marty - 21GP 11-8-2, 2.38 GAA, .902, 3 SO

 

While Cory's numbers are better, they aren't better by enough to offset the win column. Cory has to gain the confidence of his coach and team mates, and he has to seize his opportunities. 

Devils shoot 11.1% in front of Brodeur. They shoot 7.0% in front of Schneider. Out of 40 goalies with a minimum 15+ GP, that gives Brodeur the 2nd most favorable SH% support and Schneider one of the least favorable at 36th. Factor in normal regression towards the mean and Brodeur's record wouldn't look as good and Schneider's would look better than what it is now. I posted a few pages back that the Devils only give Schneider about 1.6 goals per game of support which is just over a full goal less than what Brodeur gets. I don't know where that ranks amongst NHL goalies but I imagine Schneider has to be right up there towards least favorable goal support.

 

Devils have lost 9 games in which Schneider has given up 3 goals or less, including 2 games where he gave up 2 goals.  When Brodeur gives up 3 goals or more the Devils have won 4 of those games. This is why I hate using W-L records since they don't tell the whole story.

 

The fact that we only managed 12 shots should be the main topic in this thread, not Schneider's performance.

This. I guess I missed the part of hockey camp growing up where they taught that the goalie is responsible for his team's offense and not the skaters.

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Lou seems to be fine with how the goalie splits are mike.. And cory is a wreck outside the net.

 

Except there hasn't been a split.  Marty has played in 55% of the games.  And what does his ability to play the puck have to do with anything?

 

Then maybe they should stop getting outshot 35-15 in half of the games he plays in, there's more to playing goalie that stopping the puck and his numbers are not much better anymore.   So basically everyone bitched about Marty being entitled to the job even though he wasn't winning and was shot, and now Schneider is entitled to the job even though he's not winning and isn't really playing significantly better.

 

You seem to forget that the Devils also had a game where they only mustered up 14 shots against the Flyers when Marty was in net.  The disparity is nothing more than a coincidence, and eventually the team will start playing better in front of Schneider as well.  Like I've been saying, Schneider has had great games only to be benched the very next game.  That's what can't happen.  Yet Marty is allowed to have 2 stinkers in a row.

 

I'd also like to mention that on HF, you told me that .01 difference in SV% is very significant.  Remember when I argued that a .920 SV% and .910 SV% wasn't THAT much of a difference, and you came back explaining to me that the difference in GAA as a result was very significant?  Now you're telling me that a .910 SV% and a .900 SV% isn't significant at all.

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