NJDevs4978 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) lol at bringing up Holmgren, yeah he re-signed them then he shipped them off, in Carter's case to Siberia. Then he just shipped off Van Riemsdyk after signing HIM long-term. I'd be stunned if he ever gets anyone else to sign a long-term extension at this point since he's dealt multiple guys off before their NMC's kick in with an extension. Not for nothing but that's another reason for a GM to wait, you don't want to sign guys long-term that you're looking to deal off months later. Edited June 28, 2012 by NJDevs4978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) He signed JVR to a 6 year deal and then sold him at his lowest value. It's funny though. You don't bring up him signing Nicklas Grossmann to a 4 year deal in season. That doesn't fit the narrative. How about extending Joffrey Lupul a year before he had to? That was brilliant! Oh wait, they shipped him out and he's been on two teams since. There are enormous risks with extending players early. Sometimes it hurts, sometimes it helps. Edited June 28, 2012 by Triumph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Cant see the cap increase helping us keep Parise. Teams will come after him harder now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 lol at bringing up Holmgren, yeah he re-signed them then he shipped them off, in Carter's case to Siberia. Then he just shipped off Van Riemsdyk after signing HIM long-term. I'd be stunned if he ever gets anyone else to sign a long-term extension at this point since he's dealt multiple guys off before their NMC's kick in with an extension. Not for nothing but that's another reason for a GM to wait, you don't want to sign guys long-term that you're looking to deal off months later. Whats your point here? He got a VERY cap friendly hit for both players at the time, especially for what Richards can bring, doesnt matter what he did with them after. Guess what. Those 2 guys made it to the cup finals twice AND lifted the cup in our faces this year. certainly helped the Kings this year too not having those 2 guys having the maximum cap hit they could have got thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Whats your point here? He got a VERY cap friendly hit for both players at the time, especially for what Richards can bring, doesnt matter what he did with them after. Guess what. Those 2 guys made it to the cup finals twice AND lifted the cup in our faces this year. certainly helped the Kings this year too not having those 2 guys having the maximum cap hit they could have got thats for sure. Yeah, it sure helped the KINGS. Didn't do much for the flyers though, did it. If Zach wants to be here, he will be. Lou isn't in the practice of begging and convincing. He works with people who want to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 He signed JVR to a 6 year deal and then sold him at his lowest value. It's funny though. You don't bring up him signing Nicklas Grossmann to a 4 year deal in season. That doesn't fit the narrative. How about extending Joffrey Lupul a year before he had to? That was brilliant! Oh wait, they shipped him out and he's been on two teams since. There are enormous risks with extending players early. Sometimes it hurts, sometimes it helps. Again..... it. can. go. both. ways. I'd never pick Holmgren over Lou thats for sure, he's made some terrible decisions. BUT by taking chances like that Holmgren got some REALLY GOOD deals here and here, and the flyers always had a good depth because of those deals, he's not putting himself in a corner for negotiations like Lou is thats the thing and thats all what i meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah, it sure helped the KINGS. Didn't do much for the flyers though, did it. If Zach wants to be here, he will be. Lou isn't in the practice of begging and convincing. He works with people who want to be here. You're deflecting the subject fairly well mister. Did he or did he not get a really good cap hit and contract for those 2 players by approaching them that way? Whatever happened after was a different thing and making room for Bryz was a terrible idea if you ask me or any living creatures on earth. But bottom line is he got a really good cap hit on those guys and any GM in the league would want Richards at 5.7per year on his team. they made it to the finals that year + he traded both pretty easily and got some good returns. We'll never know but im pretty sure it would have been a lot hard to trade them if they would have had a bigger cap hit. Flyers have a really good young team now with lots of depth because of all those moves.... a TERRIBLE goalie but a good group of forwards for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Again..... it. can. go. both. ways. I'd never pick Holmgren over Lou thats for sure, he's made some terrible decisions. BUT by taking chances like that Holmgren got some REALLY GOOD deals here and here, and the flyers always had a good depth because of those deals, he's not putting himself in a corner for negotiations like Lou is thats the thing and thats all what i meant. Okay and he got some real bad deals as well. And Lou has gotten some very good deals by waiting, including the Langenbrunner contract. So what exactly is your point? Edit: Also, I don't care who it is, a 15 year deal is not good. Edited June 28, 2012 by Triumph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Okay and he got some real bad deals as well. And Lou has gotten some very good deals by waiting, including the Langenbrunner contract. So what exactly is your point? Edit: Also, I don't care who it is, a 15 year deal is not good. i'd be delighted to explain once again but... i may be wrong about all of this... BUT if i was right, would you guys agree with me or your just gonna be Pro-Lou all the way closing your eyes on what im saying and deying it 'til death? cause i may be wasting my time here by some of the responses that im getting for the last few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 i'd be delighted to explain once again but... i may be wrong about all of this... BUT if i was right, would you guys agree with me or your just gonna be Pro-Lou all the way closing your eyes on what im saying and deying it 'til death? cause i may be wasting my time here by some of the responses that im getting for the last few days. I think negotiating in season has its ups and downs, and you seem to think that it's categorically brilliant to do so. Also Richards deal is for 12 years, I don't know why I thought it was for 15. Same principle applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) i'd be delighted to explain once again but... i may be wrong about all of this... BUT if i was right, would you guys agree with me or your just gonna be Pro-Lou all the way closing your eyes on what im saying and deying it 'til death? cause i may be wasting my time here by some of the responses that im getting for the last few days. I'm honestly not even clear as to what you're saying. All I can tell you is that if Zach leaves, it'll have nothing to do with Lou opening negotiations too late. As everyone has kept trying to tell you, even your premise is false. Lou did try to work out a long-term extension a year ago. While we don't know exactly what transpired, it's obvious that a deal would only get done after the season, if at all. Edited June 28, 2012 by Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 i'd be delighted to explain once again but... i may be wrong about all of this... BUT if i was right, would you guys agree with me or your just gonna be Pro-Lou all the way closing your eyes on what im saying and deying it 'til death? cause i may be wasting my time here by some of the responses that im getting for the last few days. And what we are all saying is that 1) Zach has NO REASON to sign mid season when he is due for a huge payday. and 2) Lou tried to sign him to a long term deal A YEAR AGO. He said no. What else did you want done?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montec24 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Devils advocate position - Zach didn't meet with his agents until the day after the Draft. The Devils played hockey until June 11th. Can't blame Lou in this case considering Zach went back home to Minnesota and Lou himself had to focus on the draft. I'd consider it a different story if the Panthers knocked the Devils out and contract talks between Zach/Lou didn't start until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I think negotiating in season has its ups and downs, and you seem to think that it's categorically brilliant to do so. Also Richards deal is for 12 years, I don't know why I thought it was for 15. Same principle applies. Nop thats not what im saying at all here. My point is. It can potentially have ups. (right? those ups can be a really good thing too) But Lou will NEVER EVER AND EVER possibly benefit from those ups cause he'll never even TRY to get them. He's putting himself in a corner and in a very though spot sometimes. To me a good GM (not saying Lou is not a good GM, not saying that AT ALL) should be able to adjust to all situations to find the best way to approach each one of them, Lou is not, he's sticking to his way. its do or die at the end. There's no protective nets to save him from a fall either sometimes. So anyways MAYBE those "ups" would not be there anymore a week before free agency. Thats my only point, Lou has a way and a very specific one to do things and he's been able to do it for a very long time and its wonderful, his track record is good and the team had success under him for yeaaaaars. So in a way we can't really complain BUT what if he would have adjust to certain situations at the right time? It's good to stick to ur things yeah but look at Sutter and Hitchock this season, they adjusted their way and look at the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Dude I used to like you as a poster but you beat that damn horse to death and you've gotten real bloody annoying. Bahhh no worries, i'm done talking about this anyway. All good bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Richards wasn't even a 5.7 million player this year, fwiw. Carter didn't really live up to his contract either and both were outside of the stable of good Phily forwards for the first time. I wouldn't say the Kings won the Cup in spite of them, but they were pretty highly paid role players in the playoffs. Edited June 28, 2012 by NJDevs4978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashline Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thought about this scenario today and it gets me a little nervous thinking about it: Parise and the Devils come to an agreement. Shortly thereafter, the NHL turns it down due to our financial debt. All of a sudden, it feels like the Kovy situation all over again (although different scenarios, yes). Deep down I feel Zach really does want to stay in NJ and I feel Lou WILL get a deal done. The thing I fear most is that a third party eff's this up for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thought about this scenario today and it gets me a little nervous thinking about it: Parise and the Devils come to an agreement. Shortly thereafter, the NHL turns it down due to our financial debt. All of a sudden, it feels like the Kovy situation all over again (although different scenarios, yes). Deep down I feel Zach really does want to stay in NJ and I feel Lou WILL get a deal done. The thing I fear most is that a third party eff's this up for us. Nah, no chance that happens. Its likely, if not certain, that the NHL has already spoken to the Devils if financials are that much of a hindrance to getting deals done. If they come to a deal and Zach is returning, Id imagine all I's will be dotted already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMazz Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) I don't think this is anything "ground-breaking" - however it's still worth bringing up. From our "friends" at the NY Post: Parise not expected to re-sign with Devils before free agency Edited June 29, 2012 by TheMazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montec24 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Another article based on speculation that will be regarded as fact by the less informed. Assuming, of course, there isn't a source from either side leaking this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I don't think this is anything "ground-breaking" - however it's still worth bringing up. From our "friends" at the NY Post: Parise not expected to re-sign with Devils before free agency Oh boy, good ole (N)Єverson. Though the Devils have indicated their desire to retain Parise, it appears they have not presented any contract proposals, nor explored preliminary parameters with their star left winger, who soon may become the highest-paid free agent signing in NHL history. In other words: "I have no idea and this what I think". He hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 If there is no news today...then I'm worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Signing Nash? Brendon or Riley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I don't think this is anything "ground-breaking" - however it's still worth bringing up. From our "friends" at the NY Post: Parise not expected to re-sign with Devils before free agency Here we go again. More overractions from Devils fans over every article the Post spits out about the Devils. The article is just stating what we already know and/or what we have already assumed. Basically this is just a re-hash of everything we know or speculating, so what is the big deal? It is obvious he is just filling space in the paper. When he starts coming out and blatently stating that he has a source saying Parise is about to sign with X team or throw out wild rumors like Kosman about the financial situation about the Devils, then you have a right to panic at least a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfsharkalligatorhalfman Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Just a comment: I realize these contracts are slightly more confusing than most, but does talking to Zach for 4 days really offer that much more than talking to Zach for 1 day? Once FA opens most of the top players' contracts are signed within 48 hours and that's when the player and agent is negotiating with 10+ teams. The idea that if Parise doesn't sign here it will be because Lou ran out of time is preposterous. There is more than enough time to get a deal done with Parise, but Parise wants to go to FA. It's clear his agents and father support him in this plan. The problem won't be Lou didn't spend enough time negotiating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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