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#21 Jerrydevil

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:43 PM

I'd still argue that the Boy Scouts opened themselves up for this the moment they banned gays without any rationale. Nothing in the Scout Laws or Oath say anything about sexual preference. BSA publicly changed their value system to a more conservative one. Many of the liberals complaining loudest are former scouts.

I know I'm not going to sell you on certain beliefs of mine, just like you're not going to sell me on certain beliefs of yours, but I don't buy that BSA is an innocent victim here. They knew what they were doing when they banned gays, and they knew there would be backlash.


I see what you're saying ... that the Scouts distracted from their own strengths and mission by addressing homosexuality. Why do you think they did that? Have they said why?
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#22 mouse

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:51 PM

I see what you're saying ... that the Scouts distracted from their own strengths and mission by addressing homosexuality. Why do you think they did that? Have they said why?


As far as I know, they have not. Honestly, I don't care why that much. Either they go back to being the organization I joined, or they stay what they have become and our ways remain parted.
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#23 Devils Dose

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:53 PM

Like I said, I respect your decision to do what you believe is right. I don't care for the slings and arrows from liberal politicians and the editorial writers of the New York Times, Los Angeles Times and their ilk, who have declared war on the Boy Scouts ... and any other organization that doesn't toe the liberal line.

I mean, is this really a problem? If somebody in the media says something that you don't like. . . you just ignore it, right? The Scouts don't need to be in the good graces of the NYT. Conservative media go after liberal institutions, liberal media go after conservative institutions, and while we're talking about rights, guess what those media have the right to do? Raise awareness of people and policies that conservatives/liberals don't like, and then liberals/conservatives will be upset at those media for doing it. And all of this anger and negative energy is what keeps the Earth up in its orbit and not falling into the sun. :giggle:

Edited by Devils Dose, 24 July 2012 - 04:53 PM.

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#24 squishyx

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:05 PM

The Boy Scout Oath calls for "duty to God and country." I'm going to call that a conservative value. Patriotism and individualism are at the core of Scout beliefs. Also conservative values.

What aspect of that are homosexuals unable to fulfill?

Mouse, that's brave and honorable thing you did, I was just reading an article on yahoo about other eagle scouts who did the same (not sure if there is a connection or not). I hope one day when this dark chapter of discrimination finally fades away, you will be proud to have stood on the right side of history.
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#25 mouse

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:58 PM

Mouse, that's brave and honorable thing you did, I was just reading an article on yahoo about other eagle scouts who did the same (not sure if there is a connection or not). I hope one day when this dark chapter of discrimination finally fades away, you will be proud to have stood on the right side of history.


Yeah, I was following their lead. I was pissed off for a couple years, and not sure what to do about it, so I'm really grateful somebody came up with a way to hopefully make a difference.

Thanks for the support.

Edited by mouse, 24 July 2012 - 08:58 PM.

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#26 devilsfan26

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:07 PM

Mouse, bubbling beneath the surface of many liberals I know is a contempt for the USA, the Constitution, traditional family values, free enterprise and religion.

Sorry but this is ridiculous. There are many liberals who are unhappy with things the government do, like all the wars for example, but that doesn't mean they dislike the USA. Wanting to change things for the better does not make you unpatriotic. Patriotism is more than just blind acceptance of whatever the government does. Also I have never heard anyone express contempt for the Constitution. EVERYONE says they are defending the Constitution, but some parts of the Constitution are so vague that it can be interpreted different ways. Also, dislike of religion has nothing to do with politics. I know plenty of hardcore religious liberals and plenty of atheist conservatives.

This thinking that "the other side is evil and our side is good" gets us nowhere.
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#27 Jerrydevil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:01 AM

Sorry but this is ridiculous. There are many liberals who are unhappy with things the government do, like all the wars for example, but that doesn't mean they dislike the USA. Wanting to change things for the better does not make you unpatriotic. Patriotism is more than just blind acceptance of whatever the government does. Also I have never heard anyone express contempt for the Constitution. EVERYONE says they are defending the Constitution, but some parts of the Constitution are so vague that it can be interpreted different ways. Also, dislike of religion has nothing to do with politics. I know plenty of hardcore religious liberals and plenty of atheist conservatives.

This thinking that "the other side is evil and our side is good" gets us nowhere.


I don't think it's ridiculous. You call it "interpreting" the Constitution, when what liberals do is "twist" it.

And you're a hypocrite, I'm guessing, with your last statement. What do you think of the Tea Party movement? Yeah, thought so.

Edited by Jerrydevil, 25 July 2012 - 09:03 AM.

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#28 Jerrydevil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:24 AM

Perhaps the Boy Scouts are getting a lot of funding from religious groups. That could explain their stance on homosexuals. I'm starting to agree with Mouse that the Boy Scouts took this thing to a level it didn't need to go. Still, I would be very wary of any attempts by the "progressive" left to turn the Boy Scouts into their platform for gay rights.
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#29 Devils Dose

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:28 AM

Jerry, you are throwing around a bunch of vague terms like "contempt for the USA" and "twist" without giving any example or definition of what you're talking about. "Contempt for America" What does that even mean?! The way that I find most conservatives do this is they twist (your word there) the definition of America to mean "a bastion of conservative principles." Well no crap someone who is liberal will sound like they hate this country if that's how you define it. Anybody could play this game though, so in the end it's just a cheap way to hurl insults at your political opposites.

What do I think of the Tea Party? A group of people with policy ideas for the USA, many of which I think would lead the country to a future that does not sound very appealing to me and, I'm purely guessing, a majority of Americans. At least they're trying though, just like everybody should.
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#30 devilsfan26

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:56 AM

I don't think it's ridiculous. You call it "interpreting" the Constitution, when what liberals do is "twist" it.

And you're a hypocrite, I'm guessing, with your last statement. What do you think of the Tea Party movement? Yeah, thought so.

Yeah okay the liberals "twist" the Constitution and conservatives do nothing of the sort. :blahblah: This is exactly what I'm talking about. How can we even begin to have any kind of discussion when you think people who disagree with you are some sort of evil villains?

I'm not even sure what your point is with that question regarding the Tea Party but I'm guessing you just made a straw-man argument and knocked it down. Please find me a post where I said the Tea Party is evil.
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#31 Jerrydevil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:09 PM

Jerry, you are throwing around a bunch of vague terms like "contempt for the USA" and "twist" without giving any example or definition of what you're talking about. "Contempt for America" What does that even mean?! The way that I find most conservatives do this is they twist (your word there) the definition of America to mean "a bastion of conservative principles." Well no crap someone who is liberal will sound like they hate this country if that's how you define it. Anybody could play this game though, so in the end it's just a cheap way to hurl insults at your political opposites.

What do I think of the Tea Party? A group of people with policy ideas for the USA, many of which I think would lead the country to a future that does not sound very appealing to me and, I'm purely guessing, a majority of Americans. At least they're trying though, just like everybody should.


Contempt for America is pretty self-explanatory. When liberals try to capitalize on a tragedy by attacking the Second Amendment, they show contempt for America. The entire healthcare bill is contempt for liberty, and anyone who supports it has contempt for America. When liberals throw their support behind public unions, they show contempt for America because they are supporting bribery with taxpayer money.
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#32 Jerrydevil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:17 PM

How can we even begin to have any kind of discussion when you think people who disagree with you are some sort of evil villains?


The truth is, we can't. And my intransigence didn't happen in a vacuum. It happened in response to the intolerance and nastiness of the left.
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#33 devilsfan26

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:19 PM

Contempt for America is pretty self-explanatory. When liberals try to capitalize on a tragedy by attacking the Second Amendment, they show contempt for America. The entire healthcare bill is contempt for liberty, and anyone who supports it has contempt for America. When liberals throw their support behind public unions, they show contempt for America because they are supporting bribery with taxpayer money.

Right so anything a liberal does is contempt for America. :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:


After the Aurora shooting I saw as many or more people clamoring for easier access to guns so they could defend themselves than people shouting for more gun control, but I'm sure in your eyes those people aren't trying to capitalize on a tragedy because it's not a liberal stance. That is one of the most outrageous posts I've ever seen.
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#34 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:20 PM

I always assumed that the Boy Scouts' stance on homosexuals had more to do with the misconceived relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia than conservative/religious values. Before child molestation was synonymous with Catholic priests or Jerry Sandusky, it was Scout leaders. By disallowing homosexuals into their ranks, the Boy Scouts put to ease the simple minds of parents dumb enough to think all homosexuals are automatically attracted to young boys and will do inappropriate things to their children on camping trips.

It always seemed like a tragically misguided PR move thinly veiled as a conservative/religious thing to me.

Edited by DaneykoIsGod, 25 July 2012 - 12:23 PM.

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#35 Jerrydevil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:22 PM

I always assumed that the Boy Scouts' stance on homosexuals had more to do with the misconceived relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia than conservative/religious values. Before child molestation was synonymous with Catholic priests or Jerry Sandusky, it was Scout leaders. By disallowing homosexuals into their ranks, the Boy Scouts put to ease the simple minds of parents dumb enough to think all homosexuals are automatically attracted to young boys and will do inappropriate things to their children on camping trips.

It was always seemed like a tragically misguided PR move thinly veiled as a conservative/religious thing to me.


Possible.
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#36 devilsfan26

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:22 PM

The truth is, we can't. And my intransigence didn't happen in a vacuum. It happened in response to the intolerance and nastiness of the left.

Dude, it goes both ways. There are people like that in every political viewpoint.
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#37 mouse

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:01 PM

I always assumed that the Boy Scouts' stance on homosexuals had more to do with the misconceived relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia than conservative/religious values. Before child molestation was synonymous with Catholic priests or Jerry Sandusky, it was Scout leaders. By disallowing homosexuals into their ranks, the Boy Scouts put to ease the simple minds of parents dumb enough to think all homosexuals are automatically attracted to young boys and will do inappropriate things to their children on camping trips.

It always seemed like a tragically misguided PR move thinly veiled as a conservative/religious thing to me.


Except they did it after the focus had already shifted to Catholic priests. I always thought it had more to do with appealing to Mormon leaders, because Mormons require all boys to become Eagle Scouts. Ironically, if this is the case, Mormons are becoming more flexible (more, not enough IMO) about homosexuality than Boy Scouts.
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#38 Jerrydevil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:15 PM

Dude, it goes both ways. There are people like that in every political viewpoint.


I can admit that there is a political war in this country. The Democratic Party has demonstrated it is not interested one whit in abandoning identity politics, cutting entitlements and reducing government. (The Republicans have been awful on spending, too ... until the Tea Party came along to start cleaning house.) It's clear there will be no compromise with the Democrats, and there is NO EFFORT with the Democratic Party to change their big-government, race card-playing ways. So, what do we do? We fight. I'm in favor of destroying the Democratic Party. I see it as the best solution.
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#39 devilsfan26

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:34 PM

I can admit that there is a political war in this country. The Democratic Party has demonstrated it is not interested one whit in abandoning identity politics, cutting entitlements and reducing government. (The Republicans have been awful on spending, too ... until the Tea Party came along to start cleaning house.) It's clear there will be no compromise with the Democrats, and there is NO EFFORT with the Democratic Party to change their big-government, race card-playing ways. So, what do we do? We fight. I'm in favor of destroying the Democratic Party. I see it as the best solution.

I don't support the Democrats either, but the Republicans aren't exactly the beacon of compromise considering they have tried to repeal the healthcare law 30-something times now.

You are the only person in this thread that has been vilifying the other side, you said liberals express contempt for America and the Constitution, and said things like duty to God and country, patriotism, and individualism are conservative values. Those aren't conservative values, they are just values that anyone can hold regardless of politics. Then you said your intransigence isn't your fault, it's because the left started it. You seem to be blind to the fallacies of the right while attributing everything that is negative to the left; you are almost as bad as Jimmy Leeds. You also never explained how supporting the healthcare law and public unions show contempt for America, I am looking forward to reading that gem.
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#40 Jerrydevil

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:44 PM

I don't support the Democrats either, but the Republicans aren't exactly the beacon of compromise considering they have tried to repeal the healthcare law 30-something times now.

You are the only person in this thread that has been vilifying the other side, you said liberals express contempt for America and the Constitution, and said things like duty to God and country, patriotism, and individualism are conservative values. Those aren't conservative values, they are just values that anyone can hold regardless of politics. Then you said your intransigence isn't your fault, it's because the left started it. You seem to be blind to the fallacies of the right while attributing everything that is negative to the left; you are almost as bad as Jimmy Leeds. You also never explained how supporting the healthcare law and public unions show contempt for America, I am looking forward to reading that gem.


There was a time when I would spar with Jimmy Leeds ... until I came to figure out he was right about the destructive left in this country ... and the Democratic Party, which should probably change its name to Communist Lite!

It's not all the left's fault ... most of it is, though.
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