Alfredsson Admits to Sens Cap Circumvention

[devilsrule33]

Wonder if the league will look into this as I believe this this is the first time a player has admitted to blatant circumventing of the cap. 

 

At a press conference in Ottawa Thursday, Alfredsson revealed he and the Senators structured his last contract under the assumption that he would retire before playing the last year for $1 million. That brought the average annual value of the deal down to $4.8 million from the around $6.1 million it would have otherwise been.

 

“When I did my last contract for four years ending in the (2012-13) season, I was asked to help the team manage the salary cap by adding on a extra year to my contract. I agreed. Each side fully expected I would retire and not play the 2012-13 season,” he said in the gymnasium at the Royal Ottawa Mental Health Centre.

 

“However, after the 2012 season, I told the Sens I wanted to play another season. I also asked to look at a possible extension this upcoming season at a fair amount to balance out the two years for both of us. They agreed.

 

“Sadly, the contract negotiations went nowhere, but I played out the season as I had promised and I believe this past season, in my view, was a very special one.”

 

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/alfredsson-left-after-contract-negotiations-went-nowhere

Edited August 15, 2013 by devilsrule33

[Triumph]

Well, he ended up playing the year out anyway, so I doubt anything comes of it.

[Marshall]

Well, he ended up playing the year out anyway, so I doubt anything comes of it.

 

 

You don't think they could do anything with the idea of "negotiating in bad faith"?

[lucifer91]

Well, he ended up playing the year out anyway, so I doubt anything comes of it.

 

Devils didn't give Kovy the original contract either. (Yeah I am still butthurt about devils losing a first round pick)

[Triumph]

You don't think they could do anything with the idea of "negotiating in bad faith"?

 

Daly already said they're not looking into it.  I mean, maybe an organization was dumb enough to make a record of conversations like this, but I can't imagine it.

 

Devils didn't give Kovy the original contract either. (Yeah I am still butthurt about devils losing a first round pick)

 

Yeah they did, and Kovalchuk signed it.  I thought NJ had a decent case but they pushed their deal a little too far and got burnt.

[ZeroGravityFat]

charge em a first rounder. we got hurt so should they.

[ghdi]

charge em a first rounder. we got hurt so should they.

 

It didnt happen though. He played the year out. 

[NJDevs4978]

And Kovalchuk never played a game under the contract we were penalized for.

[maxpower]

35+ contracts can't be circumvented.   The end.  It's possible this wasn't kosher under the new system, but under the old CBA there is absolutely nothing wrong with this deal.   100% of the cap value must be paid out even in the event of death.  Only loophole is if the player suffers a career ending injury and they don't retire, thus they get LTIR'd after clear day like Pronger does

[thefiestygoat]

Well, he ended up playing the year out anyway, so I doubt anything comes of it.

This is true, but since I am still bitter, this seems like the NHL is happy to turn a blind eye to someone other than the Devils violating "the spirit of the salary cap."

 

I know the NHL won't pursue this and even an investigation would be unlikely to undercover any evidence, but hell, a $5K fine to the Sens for this would make me sleep better at night.

[Devil Dan 56]

This is true, but since I am still bitter, this seems like the NHL is happy to turn a blind eye to someone other than the Devils violating "the spirit of the salary cap."

 

I know the NHL won't pursue this and even an investigation would be unlikely to undercover any evidence, but hell, a $5K fine to the Sens for this would make me sleep better at night.

 

I realized the only the Devils would suffer the 'spirit of the salary cap' bull when the league let Chicago 'loan' Huet to a European team so they didn't have to pay him 5.5 million. 

 

And when they changed the rule so that none of the other monster contracts had to be investigated right after the Kovalchuk one was.

[Triumph]

I realized the only the Devils would suffer the 'spirit of the salary cap' bull when the league let Chicago 'loan' Huet to a European team so they didn't have to pay him 5.5 million.

 

Chicago paid most, if not all, of Huet's salary.  And the Devils did the same thing with Vitali Vishnevski.

 

 

And when they changed the rule so that none of the other monster contracts had to be investigated right after the Kovalchuk one was.

 

That was because NJ put the league over a barrel. The league didn't want to approve that Kovalchuk contract, knew it couldn't fight it with the arbitrator (because it would lose), and knew it would lead to a flurry of similar contracts, so it put a stop to that as best it could.  Otherwise Parise and Suter would be playing on 18 year contracts right now, Brad Richards would have a 13 year contract, etc.

[Devil Dan 56]

Chicago paid most, if not all, of Huet's salary.  And the Devils did the same thing with Vitali Vishnevski.

 

 

 

 

 

That was because NJ put the league over a barrel. The league didn't want to approve that Kovalchuk contract, knew it couldn't fight it with the arbitrator (because it would lose), and knew it would lead to a flurry of similar contracts, so it put a stop to that as best it could.  Otherwise Parise and Suter would be playing on 18 year contracts right now, Brad Richards would have a 13 year contract, etc.

 

Jesus man... can't we just be fans for 5 minutes? The Devils are the only team to get fined for what everyone else was doing.

[Triumph]

Jesus man... can't we just be fans for 5 minutes? The Devils are the only team to get fined for what everyone else was doing.

 

The Devils did it much more brazenly than anyone else.  There were twice as minimum salary years in the Kovalchuk contract than in all of the other long-tail contracts combined.

 

Not to mention all the piper paying that's going to be happening in the latter part of this decade while the Devils skate free of the Kovalchuk mess.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Triumph

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Jesus man... can't we just be fans for 5 minutes? The Devils are the only team to get fined for what everyone else was doing.

 

Tri is Spock when it comes to matters like this...logic/knowledge first, emotions distant second (if at all)...that being said:

 

The Devils did it much more brazenly than anyone else.  There were twice as minimum salary years in the Kovalchuk contract than in all of the other long-tail contracts combined.

 

Not to mention all the piper paying that's going to be happening in the latter part of this decade while the Devils skate free of the Kovalchuk mess.

 

Tri is 100% right on this...especially since Lou was warned about trying to get that first contract (the 17-year one) through.  Lou was incredibly arrogant in that regard, and in Lou's case it's almost inexcusable that he acted that way, mostly because he's always had such a good read on what is going on with the NHL...that insight is a lot of the reason he knew he had a shot to win Scott Stevens in the Brendan Shanahan compensation case (league didn't like St. Louis screwing up the NHL salary structure, Lou knew the league wanted to stick it to them).  Lou knew the NHL was not a big fan of these thinly-veiled cap circumvention deals and was reaching their breaking point, yet he signs Kovy to one that is clearly the worst example of them all when he's warned not to, then has a press conference to announce it before it's even approved, and in the process, challenges a commissioner who's not exactly known for being a big fan of the Devils brand.  I'm not a big fan of Bettman...in fact, I can't stand the fvcker...but in this case, I can see why he was pissed...Lou basically said "Screw you, I'm doing this anyway, what are you going to do it about it?"  Well, Lou found out. 

 

And yeah, it is going to be interesting to see how bad these deals all become when there's 5-6 years left on some of them.  Losing Kovy was such an epic win for the Devils, it really was.        

Edited August 16, 2013 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Devil Dan 56]

Tri is Spock when it comes to matters like this...logic/knowledge first, emotions distant second (if at all)...that being said:

 

 

Tri is 100% right on this...especially since Lou was warned about trying to get that first contract (the 17-year one) through.  Lou was incredibly arrogant in that regard, and in Lou's case it's almost inexcusable that he acted that way, mostly because he's always had such a good read on what is going on with the NHL...that insight is a lot of the reason he knew he had a shot to win Scott Stevens in the Brendan Shanahan compensation case (league didn't like St. Louis screwing up the NHL salary structure, Lou knew the league wanted to stick it to them).  Lou knew the NHL was not a big fan of these thinly-veiled cap circumvention deals and was reaching their breaking point, yet he signs Kovy to one that is clearly the worst example of them all when he's warned not to, then has a press conference to announce it before it's even approved, and in the process, challenges a commissioner who's not exactly known for being a big fan of the Devils brand.  I'm not a big fan of Bettman...in fact, I can't stand the fvcker...but in this case, I can see why he was pissed...Lou basically said "Screw you, I'm doing this anyway, what are you going to do it about it?"  Well, Lou found out. 

 

And yeah, it is going to be interesting to see how bad these deals all become when there's 5-6 years left on some of them.  Losing Kovy was such an epic win for the Devils, it really was.        

 

I agree, and I think Vanderbeek was behind most of that. It was way too far off of the Lou path. I feel like the press conference was them trying to bluff their way through. They don't hold press conferences for any signings, but they had a lot of pomp and circumstance for that. It was almost like they dared the NHL, and the NHL happily called their bluff. I still think the punishment would have been much lighter if there was no press conference.

 

But still, sometimes fans just want to hate Bettman and the way everything went down. It does suck that not one team has been hit with the 'spirit of the cap' stuff other than the Devils, when there's clearly cap circumvention all over the league. There was no limit to contract lengths at the time, and there was no rule about how low a contract could go. Technically, they broke no rules. I feel like if anything, Lou was making a mockery of the system, and that angered the league.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I'll never understand what happened that day DD56, why Lou & Vanderbeek chose to dare the league.  It was clear they wanted to keep Kovy at the time (whether it was more VBK's doing than Lou's, we'll never know), so why the hell didn't they work with a league that clearly was trying to put the kebosh on contracts of that nature?  There was NOTHING to gain by giving the NHL the finger...if the contract goes through, they keep Kovy...if the league comes down on them (and I'm sorry, Lou had to know the league wasn't going like being challenged), they get penalized and still have to work out a contract to the league's liking.  All Lou had to do was draft a friggin' contract that the league could approve.  I don't know what they thought they were going to accomplish...it's like mouthing off to a cop who pulls you over for going 80 mph in a 55 mph zone.   

[Triumph]

I'll never understand what happened that day DD56, why Lou & Vanderbeek chose to dare the league.  It was clear they wanted to keep Kovy at the time (whether it was more VBK's doing than Lou's, we'll never know), so why the hell didn't they work with a league that clearly was trying to put the kebosh on contracts of that nature?  There was NOTHING to gain by giving the NHL the finger...if the contract goes through, they keep Kovy...if the league comes down on them (and I'm sorry, Lou had to know the league wasn't going like being challenged), they get penalized and still have to work out a contract to the league's liking.  All Lou had to do was draft a friggin' contract that the league could approve.  I don't know what they thought they were going to accomplish...it's like mouthing off to a cop who pulls you over for going 80 mph in a 55 mph zone.   

 

They were right up against the salary cap.  Remember that with the Kovalchuk signing they were still over the limit by 2.3M and that was with a 21 person roster.  If they ditched White, Salvador, or Langenbrunner they could add a 21st body to the roster.  It's clear Lou thought he had a way out, but didn't - he would've had to send one of those three guys on waivers or stash them in the minors had Salvador not been injured.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Not the point Tri...the point is Lou tried to sign Kovy to a specific contract that the league told him not to.  I know they had cap issues ("Don't worry about my cap"), but regardless of whatever else was going on, I don't understand the league saying "Don't do this" and Lou (and/or VBK) saying "Well we don't care, we are anyway."  Despite all that was going on, Lou found a way to make Kovy work anyway.  Couldn't he have done that without pissing off the NHL, to the tune of a load of cash and a 1st-rounder the Devils aren't in a position to lose?   

[Devil Dan 56]

Not the point Tri...the point is Lou tried to sign Kovy to a specific contract that the league told him not to.  I know they had cap issues ("Don't worry about my cap"), but regardless of whatever else was going on, I don't understand the league saying "Don't do this" and Lou (and/or VBK) saying "Well we don't care, we are anyway."  Despite all that was going on, Lou found a way to make Kovy work anyway.  Couldn't he have done that without pissing off the NHL, to the tune of a load of cash and a 1st-rounder the Devils aren't in a position to lose?   

 

I really think Lou thought they would get away with it. Like I said before, they didn't to anything that went against any specific rule. There was no limit on years, there was no limit on highest and lowest year (as long as the drop wasn't more than 50% per season, I believe). The NHL nailed them on  the 'spirit of the cap'. I think Lou thought it would be something that would skate through and be addressed at the next CBA.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I really think Lou thought they would get away with it. Like I said before, they didn't to anything that went against any specific rule. There was no limit on years, there was no limit on highest and lowest year (as long as the drop wasn't more than 50% per season, I believe). The NHL nailed them on  the 'spirit of the cap'. I think Lou thought it would be something that would skate through and be addressed at the next CBA.

 

I get what you're saying completely...the "spirit of the cap" thing isn't a sharply defined thing, with numerically-defined parameters.  For me though it will always come back to the same thing...league tells Devils not to pass through that specific contract, but they try to anyway.  Not like Lou's never challenged the league before (Jim Schoenfeld of course), but still seems like a surprise move from a guy like him.

[devils102]

35+ contracts can't be circumvented.   The end.  It's possible this wasn't kosher under the new system, but under the old CBA there is absolutely nothing wrong with this deal.   100% of the cap value must be paid out even in the event of death.  Only loophole is if the player suffers a career ending injury and they don't retire, thus they get LTIR'd after clear day like Pronger does

But the extra year means that... if Alfredsson had retired ...although the Sens would still have his salary against the cap... it's now spread out over 4 years versus 3. Not sure I'm explaining that well but hopefully that makes sense.

 

 

The Devils did it much more brazenly than anyone else. 

 

 

Until yesterday I would argue. It was obvious what the Devils were doing, but at least Kovalchuk didn't say "yeah I'm retiring around year 10, the others are so the team can dodge the cap". That's basically what Alfie is saying here. I get the scope is completely different: Devils were saving million in cap space while the Sens saved peanuts in comparison. But if the crime is violating the "spirit of the salary cap", well how does this not warrant an investigation? 

 

The league seems to be using the same flawed logic it uses to hand out suspensions... punish based on the media attention/scope of the incident, rather than the act itself.

 

I don't know if I'll EVER be convinced the Devils should have been punished for that contract. It's not like shoplifting where you're punishing people to set an example for those who are getting away with it. It's IMPOSSIBLE to get away with an illegal contract because the league has to approve it anyway. I never realized Lou was warned by the league... but even if he was... so what? All the league has to do is reject the contract.

 

It may seem petty to STILL be mad about this... but c'mon NHL!

[jim777]

the only thing that comes of this is that the Sens fans know exactly why he left now, and likely won't blame him nearly as much.

[maxpower]

The Devils did it much more brazenly than anyone else.  There were twice as minimum salary years in the Kovalchuk contract than in all of the other long-tail contracts combined.

 

Not to mention all the piper paying that's going to be happening in the latter part of this decade while the Devils skate free of the Kovalchuk mess.

 

And the minimum salary years were WAY out there, into the mid/late 2020's.   Implying a current minimum salary would be such in say, 2025 is pretty bad.