New York Mets Offseason Thread

[devilsadvoc8]

Dealing Reyes or Wright is just absolute lunacy. They are cornerstone players despite the rantings of an idiot.

Delgado turned out ok. If they can't upgrade substantially there, I would be ok with him returning. He was more clutch than Wright or Reyes down the stretch it seemed. The numbers may contradict me but that is just my gut feeling.

A stronger bullpen and rotation will do wonders for this team. The whole team lost confidence in the pen and it showed. Go to them less often and with less pressure and I think the offense will be more relaxed.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I like Evan/Beningo and Boomer/Carton.. but i hate Francesca, thats when i turn it off

I think they are right about Delgado.. hes probably gotta be the 'core' player to go. I think no question Texeira is a better option, but maybe put Murphy at 1B instead and dump Castillo and sign Orlando Hudson.. Or you can buy out Delgado and try for Texeira..

I really think someone has to go though with this offense.. they were inconsistent all year.. But I believe we need Manny in LF, despite his age HE CAN HIT and hes nowhere comparable to Moises Alou whose had a career of injury issues. We desperately need bullpen support, a closer, and a corner outfielder. I think the Mets have to look to deal a younger player.. Evans perhaps? Give up on Fmart, although thats risky? Parnell? Niese? Flores (new top prospect over F-mart)? I think you gotta make those guys available.. not Murphy though he needs to stay.. although, im sure teams will be offering for him

It would depend on what Teixeira wants. I'd rather see them sink bigger dollars into the pitching staff...this team tied for second in the NL in runs scored (799), so as much as people want to pick on the lack of clutch hitting (and despite the lofty RS total it was an issue at times), it's the pitching (specifically the BP) that killed this team more than anything else, and relying on Pedro to resemble the Pedro of old. And it's like I said in my previous post...Ryan Church, Jose Reyes and Luis Castillo are the ones who should be getting ripped on the offensive side.

Manny definitely makes me nervous...yeah, the guy can hit like nobody's business, but that leads to a gaping hole in left field, and we all know about his personality issues. I have the feeling that Omar's going to ignore every last bit of baggage and get involved in that one anyway.

[nmigliore]

It would depend on what Teixeira wants. I'd rather see them sink bigger dollars into the pitching staff...this team tied for second in the NL in runs scored (799), so as much as people want to pick on the lack of clutch hitting (and despite the lofty RS total it was an issue at times), it's the pitching (specifically the BP) that killed this team more than anything else, and relying on Pedro to resemble the Pedro of old. And it's like I said in my previous post...Ryan Church, Jose Reyes and Luis Castillo are the ones who should be getting ripped on the offensive side.

Manny definitely makes me nervous...yeah, the guy can hit like nobody's business, but that leads to a gaping hole in left field, and we all know about his personality issues. I have the feeling that Omar's going to ignore every last bit of baggage and get involved in that one anyway.

Manny will get along well with the clubhouse.. its all hispanic players..

[NJDevs4978]

I'd deal Reyes in a second if you could get comparable value back for him. Three years in a row of falling completely on his face in the clutch is enough for me. Thing is, there is no comparable value. Plus you'd need a leadoff hitter - maybe you could get Carl Crawford but other than that, you lose speed and the ability to create runs.

With Wright, he does get a 'little' bit of a bad rap - his September average last year was good too. Yes he does clearly get tight at times but seemed to figure it out the last couple weeks for the most part. And it was laughable Francesa suggesting to trade him for Matt Holiday. Outfielders that go 30-100 are a dime a dozen, and who knows what he does outside of Corrs. Plus he's a few years older and makes more money at this point.

I'd be on board with getting rid of Delgado, not only do I think he declines again next year but he's also got locker room issues and is one of the most arrogant of a locker room that thinks they're better than they are.

[nmigliore]

Outfielders that go 30-100 are a dime a dozen, and who knows what he does outside of Corrs. Plus he's a few years older and makes more money at this point.

Can always have Hudson as the leadoff hitter and Murphy, playing whatever position, as the #2 guy.. thats if you trade Reyes for a non-leadoff hitter, like an outfielder that we need. But I dont think Reyes/Wright should go anywhere, unless its a tremendous deal that favors the Mets

Oh as for Holliday, away from Coors field: 10 HR, 29 RBI, .308/.405/.486/.891 with 15 doubles

(at home: 15 HR, 59 RBI, .332/.413/.584/.997 and 23 doubles)

IMO Holliday would be a better fit for the Phillies in their ballpark.. not CitiField.

Edited September 29, 2008 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I'd deal Reyes in a second if you could get comparable value back for him. Three years in a row of falling completely on his face in the clutch is enough for me. Thing is, there is no comparable value. Plus you'd need a leadoff hitter - maybe you could get Carl Crawford but other than that, you lose speed and the ability to create runs.

With Wright, he does get a 'little' bit of a bad rap - his September average last year was good too. Yes he does clearly get tight at times but seemed to figure it out the last couple weeks for the most part. And it was laughable Francesa suggesting to trade him for Matt Holiday. Outfielders that go 30-100 are a dime a dozen, and who knows what he does outside of Corrs. Plus he's a few years older and makes more money at this point.

I'd be on board with getting rid of Delgado, not only do I think he declines again next year but he's also got locker room issues and is one of the most arrogant of a locker room that thinks they're better than they are.

Francesca is really coming off as clueless today, even by his standards. Reyes and Wright are still very young players...he makes it sound like these guys have been failures for over a decade. I'm not ready to give up on these guys and write them off as choke artists for the next 5 or 10 years. Having said that, I think Reyes is never going to be much better than he is right now...a guy who will flirt with a .300 BA, .360 OB%, will hit 10-15 HR and drive in 60-70 runs, and play a good SS. He'll be a good-to-very-good player, but I think the days of hoping he's a franchise guy and a potentially great player are over. I was hoping he could someday hit in the .320-.330 range, with on OB% of .380 or better, and possibly reach 20-25 HRs. But he does have a unique skill set, and the Mets don't have anyone else that's even close to possessing leadoff ability, so I don't think Reyes should go anywhere.

For some reason the WFAN hosts want to minimize the BP's follies and put more of this on the offense. The offense, even with its issues, still managed to score 799 runs. The bullpen killed this team far more than the offense did.

[nmigliore]

Francesca is really coming off as clueless today, even by his standards. Reyes and Wright are still very young players...he makes it sound like these guys have been failures for over a decade. I'm not ready to give up on these guys and write them off as choke artists for the next 5 or 10 years. Having said that, I think Reyes is never going to be much better than he is right now...a guy who will flirt with a .300 BA, .360 OB%, will hit 10-15 HR and drive in 60-70 runs, and play a good SS. He'll be a good-to-very-good player, but I think the days of hoping he's a franchise guy and a potentially great player are over. I was hoping he could someday hit in the .320-.330 range, with on OB% of .380 or better, and possibly reach 20-25 HRs. But he does have a unique skill set, and the Mets don't have anyone else that's even close to possessing leadoff ability, so I don't think Reyes should go anywhere.

For some reason the WFAN hosts want to minimize the BP's follies and put more of this on the offense. The offense, even with its issues, still managed to score 799 runs. The bullpen killed this team far more than the offense did.

I think the bullpen blowing everything eventually got to the offense and probably got them saying, 'what the fvck do we have to do?'

Edited September 29, 2008 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I think the bullpen blowing everything eventually got to the offense and probably got them saying, 'what the fvck do we have to do?'

I think there's something to that. They're all going to say the right things in the papers, but I'm sure these guys look at the Schoeneweises, the Heilmans, the Sanchezes and think "Jesus H. Christ, could you a$$holes just once go out there and do your fvcking jobs?! Does it always have to fall on us to bail you guys out? Can't just one of you step it up and turn in a decent performance?"

It's like I posted before...how much more were Wright, Beltran, and Delgado supposed to do in September? Hit .400 apiece? Drive in 30 runs each?

Edited September 29, 2008 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[nmigliore]

I just hope Omar doesn't dump Heilman for nothing and pick up a scrub reliever.. like exactly what he did last year; dump Mota for nothing and pick up Wise for 1 year, and he was out pretty much the whole year.. they need to acquire a quality setup man, maybe Ayala is that guy, who knows.. and they need a closer. And get rid of Schoenweis.. but thats just the LEAST they have to do with the bullpen

If this team goes into next year having Parnell or Maine as the closer, i just cant watch this anymore. If they want to pull of some trades, use some chips.. Evans is not going to be a starter next year or any other year so just get rid of him for something valuable.. Although I would think more teams would want to get their hands on Murphy. But maybe we can deal Murphy and Evans for some quality relievers or more. And that would require Omar to sign Orlando Hudson, who i really like

Edited September 29, 2008 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I just hope Omar doesn't dump Heilman for nothing and pick up a scrub reliever.. like exactly what he did last year; dump Mota for nothing and pick up Wise for 1 year, and he was out pretty much the whole year.. they need to acquire a quality setup man, maybe Ayala is that guy, who knows.. and they need a closer.

If this team goes into next year having Parnell or Maine as the closer, i just cant watch this anymore. If they want to pull of some trades, use some chips.. Evans is not going to be a starter next year or any other year so just get rid of him for something valuable..

Heilman's value is in the toilet. Everyone else saw what we saw. I'm sure there are teams that are intrigued by his more successful seasons that will try to fleece the Mets though. That's why I wouldn't mind keeping him around for spring training and even early on next season, if that can increase his value any. But he's definitely one of the poster boys for Met failures (going back to Game 7 in the '06 NLCS), and Omar may just want to dump him just to change the identity of the team. I'm curious to see how this one evolves.

Did Evans really show enough to bring something valuable back in return? He'll definitely have to be part of a nice package to bring something back...he alone won't come close to cutting it.

Maine will be in the rotation next year. I can't see the Mets giving up on him as a starter that quickly...especially since he's been pretty good in that role.

I saw enough of Murphy that I'd like to see the Mets give him a shot...hopefully he takes to 2B.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[nmigliore]

Heilman's value is in the toilet. Everyone else saw what we saw. I'm sure there are teams that are intrigued by his more successful seasons that will try to fleece the Mets though. That's why I wouldn't mind keeping him around for spring training and even early on next season, if that can increase his value any. But he's definitely one of the poster boys for Met failures (going back to Game 7 in the '06 NLCS), and Omar may just want to dump him just to change the identity of the team. I'm curious to see how this one evolves.

Did Evans really show enough to bring something valuable back in return? He'll definitely have to be part of a nice package to bring something back...he alone won't come close to cutting it.

Maine will be in the rotation next year. I can't see the Mets giving up on him as a starter that quickly...especially since he's been pretty good in that role.

Hmm.. what about Heilman and Murphy for some relievers? I dont wanna give up both Evans and Murphy so quickly.. especially Murphy.. but im sure theres gonna be teams who want to get their hands on him.. And sign Hudson to play 2B

Im not a fan of trading him.. but if means to get some quality relievers.. why not?

A perfect 2B tandem would be Murphy/Hudson.... but thats just too good to be true..

Edited September 29, 2008 by nmigliore

[NJDevs4978]

One thing that's really laughable is how Francesa brought up Ryan Braun (and his two HR's this week) saying why does he come through in the clutch and Wright didn't. Wright's numbers were already posted above, here are Braun's September numbers:

.208-3-11

And that's including the two walkoffs which accounted for 2 HR's and 6 RBI's.

And Rollins and the Phillies were getting absolutely panned earlier in their career for not getting the job done. Wright (and Reyes for that matter) are years younger than Utley and Howard, they do have time to figure it out.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Hmm.. what about Heilman and Murphy for some relievers? I dont wanna give up both Evans and Murphy so quickly.. especially Murphy.. but im sure theres gonna be teams who want to get their hands on him.. And sign Hudson to play 2B

Im not a fan of trading him.. but if means to get some quality relievers.. why not?

A perfect 2B tandem would be Murphy/Hudson.... but thats just too good to be true..

Man, it's tough to give up Murph...I loved his approach at the plate, his patience. I really want to see him get a shot with the Mets. But Omar's clearly going to have to give something up to upgrade the 'pen via trade, and like Tri said, outside of KRod there just ain't much out there on the FA market. I'm curious as to how other GMs perceive Heilman at this point...I'd surprised if there weren't two or three GMs out there who will think to themselves "Guy has talent, fell on hard times in NY, needs a change of scenery, could bounce back in a beter situation..." I'm not saying that the Mets will necessarily get a great player out of him, but some GM might be willing to give up more than we think.

One thing's for sure...I can't see this team coming back next season without a big move or two having been made. Too much has gone wrong over the last two years.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

One thing that's really laughable is how Francesa brought up Ryan Braun (and his two HR's this week) saying why does he come through in the clutch and Wright didn't. Wright's numbers were already posted above, here are Braun's September numbers:

.208-3-11

And that's including the two walkoffs which accounted for 2 HR's and 6 RBI's.

And Rollins and the Phillies were getting absolutely panned earlier in their career for not getting the job done. Wright (and Reyes for that matter) are years younger than Utley and Howard, they do have time to figure it out.

That's what's really bugged me about Fatcesca's comments today. He's done absolutely zero reseach here. All he had to do is take one minute to check out Wright's, Delgado's and Beltran's September numbers to realize that, despite all three having moments where they didn't come through, had very good Septembers. Pick any two games where the BP sucked, pencil in wins, and everyone's talking about how the Mets heart of the order carried the team during September.

And Reyes and Wright are the same age as a lot of rookies...how can Fatso decide right now that these guys will never figure it out?

And I haven't been listening to Fatso all day, but why the hell is Ryan Church not getting slammed? Six strikeouts in a row?! How many rallies did that guy kill this month?!

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

One thing worth noting...as good overall as the Mets' big three were in September, Ryan Howard's September was absurd. The numbers:

88 AB, 26 R, 31 H, 7 2B, 2 3B, 11 HR, 32 RBI, 12 BB, 21 K, 0/0 SB, .422 OB%, .852 SLG, .352 BA

That really is friggin' amazing.

Of course, if you asked Fatso, "What do you think David Wright did this month?", he'd probably say he hit .210 or so for the month of September. Howard clearly had the better month by a mile (32 RBI in 88 AB?! Damn!), but Wright wasn't the do-nothing slouch Fatso is making him out to be.

[Triumph]

oh c'mon quit listening to WFAN on a day like today. sports talk radio just adds fuel to the fire by intentionally being unreasonable. fransceca is basically a troll - he says what a troll would say, time and time again.

and what you wrote about beltran, wright, delgado vs. braun just shows the myth of clutch and how overrated the concept is. clutch isn't a skill. there may be some guys more clutch than others (or less than others, is probably a better way to put it), but there's not many and it's impossible to measure. braun cost his team more games by hitting as he did throughout september.

reyes and wright must be kept. wright is the best natural 3B since schmidt, probably - there's no telling how great he can be. and while yea reyes may not be a phenomenal player, he's still an excellent one, and the mets don't have anything in the minors that compares.

and heilman. must. be. kept. he's the only guy who can theoretically get out lefties and righties.

[Devils Pride 26]

and heilman. must. be. kept. he's the only guy who can theoretically get out lefties and righties.

Out of everything you have said so far, this makes the most sense. Heilman is still rather young, and has been good in the past. The Mets have got to hope he can bounce back.

Something else to think about: A manager idea that I think most of you will probably laugh at me for bringing this up. Keith Hernandez. Not saying he would want too or the Mets would want him, but it's cool in theory.

[LOTCB]

It's like I posted before...how much more were Wright, Beltran, and Delgado supposed to do in September? Hit .400 apiece? Drive in 30 runs each?

Right or wrong, if there are 30 games in September, and 5-6 are games that there are lost opportunities (LOB, blowing leads, not coming through in the clutch etc) and the other 20 or so games the player was good or better, fans will undoubtely ALWAYS remember those tough losses. Especially for the biggest stars on the team.

It is like poker, you can win 1000 hands, but the 15 horrible beats you have, you will remember EVERY detail of those hands. Just human nature.

[nmigliore]

Out of everything you have said so far, this makes the most sense. Heilman is still rather young, and has been good in the past. The Mets have got to hope he can bounce back.

Something else to think about: A manager idea that I think most of you will probably laugh at me for bringing this up. Keith Hernandez. Not saying he would want too or the Mets would want him, but it's cool in theory.

Pass on Keith, definitely.. I rather him be in the booth than anywhere near being part of the Mets coaching staff or whatnot..

I rather have Mazzilli manage this team over Keith..

But that doesn't really matter right now b/c Jerry is getting a contract

Edited September 29, 2008 by nmigliore

['7']

I'm not trading Reyes or Beltran. Wright...I would consider it if the right offer came along but I'm leaning towards keeping him on 09.

Sign Manny Ramirez and stick him in left. Whatever it takes money wise.

Let Delgado walk. Sign Sean Casey or Kevin Millar to play 1st base. Move Murphy to 2nd.

Reyes

Murphy

Wright

Ramirez

Beltran

Church

Millar or Casey

Schneider/Castro

Pitcher

I can settle with Manuel, but you have to make a hard push for Bobby V first.

Edited September 30, 2008 by '7'

[nmigliore]

I'm not trading Reyes or Beltran. Wright...I would consider it if the right offer came along but I'm leaning towards keeping him on 09.

Sign Manny Ramirez and stick him in left. Whatever it takes money wise.

Let Delgado walk. Sign Sean Casey or Kevin Millar to play 1st base. Move Murphy to 2nd.

Reyes

Murphy

Wright

Ramirez

Beltran

Church

Millar or Casey

Schneider/Castro

Pitcher

I can settle with Manuel, but you have to make a hard push for Bobby V first.

Sounds good.. but: Still need rotation help with the money, and bullpen help, and a closer.. all of which are probably gonna be taken care of via free agency using $$$. I dont think we can afford all of that if we get Manny, unless we trade for a closer

['7']

oh c'mon quit listening to WFAN on a day like today. sports talk radio just adds fuel to the fire by intentionally being unreasonable. fransceca is basically a troll - he says what a troll would say, time and time again.

and what you wrote about beltran, wright, delgado vs. braun just shows the myth of clutch and how overrated the concept is. clutch isn't a skill. there may be some guys more clutch than others (or less than others, is probably a better way to put it), but there's not many and it's impossible to measure. braun cost his team more games by hitting as he did throughout september.

reyes and wright must be kept. wright is the best natural 3B since schmidt, probably - there's no telling how great he can be. and while yea reyes may not be a phenomenal player, he's still an excellent one, and the mets don't have anything in the minors that compares.

and heilman. must. be. kept. he's the only guy who can theoretically get out lefties and righties.

Rick Peterson was on WFAN the other day. I'm no pitching coach, but he said Heilman has a funky delivery that always needs fine tuning. He probably deserves another chance but Heilman may be too difficult a puzzle to piece together.

['7']

Sounds good.. but: Still need rotation help with the money, and bullpen help, and a closer.. all of which are probably gonna be taken care of via free agency using $$$. I dont think we can afford all of that if we get Manny, unless we trade for a closer

Well Pedro is coming off the books, that's a little something. Let Perez walk. I think we can go with Santana-Pelfrey-Maine-sign Derek Lowe-Niese

if Lowe goes somewhere else, make a hard push for Mike Mussina or maybe Paul Byrd.

When it comes to bullpen help, I would trade Church and get a good arm somewhere. Evans and Castro would also be prime trade bait for bullpen help.

They're high on Parnell, maybe he's the 09 closer?

[nmigliore]

Well Pedro is coming off the books, that's a little something. Let Perez walk. I think we can go with Santana-Pelfrey-Maine-sign Derek Lowe-Niese

if Lowe goes somewhere else, make a hard push for Mike Mussina or maybe Paul Byrd.

When it comes to bullpen help, I would trade Church and get a good arm somewhere. Evans and Castro would also be prime trade bait for bullpen help.

They're high on Parnell, maybe he's the 09 closer?

If Parnell is the 09 closer Ill be very very very disappointed.. unless they landed CC Sabathia and Manny Ramirez and addressed part of the bullpen.

But... that wont happen. And I dont think Parnell is gonna be the closer. MAYBE the setup guy

[SatansDevils]

I like the choices '7' said and the Mets do need to go out and get a closer. K-Rod would be the ultimate prize. Need a starting pitcher or two, need to replace the BP with better pitchers because Schoeneweis, Heilman, Ayala and possibly Sanchez are all gone. In the Mets BP I would only keep Smith, Feliciano and Stokes. Maybe Sanchez giving him a chance coming off his surgeries last season and maybe getting in some better shape. The rest has to go and be replaced. Pedro is gone and let Perez walk. Go after other starting pitches wether it be by trade of FA.