Jimmy Leeds Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Remember MadDog, when all else fails.....yell RACISM. Tried and true tactic of the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 -planes and towers... Hamas organized 9/11?!?!? Holy crap. Do the newspapers know this? Do you have a link? Jimmy: The right don't use it because they know everyone would laugh their head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueNJ97 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) Actually, I don't think the Palestinians were idiots, necessarily. But I also don't think this election was JUST about the corruption and inertia of the Fatah Party. I think the Palestinians looked at it this way: 1. With the relatively efficient running of their charitable wing, and the institutions it had built, Hamas had proved that, administratively, it was capable of something approaching delivering basic services. 2. Over the many years that Fatah had been in power it had never actually proved it was capable of running a government. They never bothered to try to deliver basic services. People were willing to put up with it when Arafat was in charge because he was, well, Arafat. But after he died, they actually expected something more from their government on an everyday basis than empty gestures. 3. On top of having proved on a small scale that they can do something that Fatah cannot do on any scale, Hamas says it is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. So, they could vote for the party that vows to destroy the country that they want destroyed and might give them some basic services as well. They think they might someday get back Jerusalem AND get Tel Aviv in the bargain, along with whatever Hamas can deliver. The fact that nobody has ever actually won a war against Israel apparently fails to register. Maybe they think Iran is going to use nuclear weapons against the Israelis - forgetting that this will make much of the place uninhabitable for them, as well. 4. In any case they probably believe, and it is already showing itself to be true in stuff I have read from around the world, that everyone except the US will NOT cut off the aid, despite the fact that Hamas vows to destroy Israel. So Hamas can use the aid however it wants to use it. That includes using it against Israel. The Europeans and others may say that's not what they intend but we also know they can't do anything to stop it. I think this is proof that, just because a vote is democratic, it won't necessarily always produce results we are going to like. In Algeria, in the last election they had, over a decade ago, didn't they freely elect a government that basically said they were never going to allow elections again? Their own army then overthrew them. But a democratic election doesn't always produce what we think it will here in the US. I don't think that means we have to do anything about it, militarily. They elected that government, let them live with it. But that doesn't mean that we have to give them any money, either. Or deal with them in any way. As long as their stated policy is the destruction of Israel, we are under no obligation to deal with them. Aid comes with a PRICE. That price is a change in policy. And not lip service, either. Edited January 29, 2006 by SueNJ97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Diablo Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hamas organized 9/11?!?!? Holy crap. Do the newspapers know this? Do you have a link? No Don - they didnt.. but a very similar terrorist organization did.. well versed in the same tactics and I guess the beginning of the statement can be swept under the rug... btw you put too much credence on links.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice dog Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 the whole world is chalk full of idiots not just in palestine! look who the usa elected in 2004(again)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 the whole world is chalk full of idiots not just in palestine!look who the usa elected in 2004(again)... Depends how you view it. I'd like to think every individual has a logical reason for doing what they do. I don't believe in labeling someone. Especially a group. That being said, sometimes people's decisions can be influenced negatively for a cause. Maybe it's justified and maybe it's not depending on their intentions. That's pretty much all I have to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddDog Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 Well, if we're going to make *that* kind of comparison between Bush and Hamas, Bush would have run on a platform advocating the genocide of his Canadian (or Mexican) neighbors and the destruction of Canada (or Mexico). Don't get me wrong, Bush certainly ACTS like an idiot at times, but hell, so did Frankenkerry and assorted Dem candidates. It's not like we got anyone DECENT to pick from the last election. What concerns me about the Palestinians is the vast majority HAS supported the destruction of Israel for years. Isn't it like 80% or more want Israel annihilated?? So, did they elect Hamas because of their social services and the inept Fatah party, or because Hamas publicly says what they want to happen (Israel goes bye bye)??? I'm even more confused by their voting patterns when I read this: Despite Hamas win, Palestinians want peace with Israel An excerpt: RAMALLAH, West Bank (AFP) - Hamas's election victory may have raised fears of a hardening in Palestinian attitudes towards Israel, but a poll shows a vast majority want a negotiated peace with their Jewish neighbours. A survey conducted within days of the Islamist group's landslide win in the parliamentary election showed 84 percent of Palestinians want a negotiated peace agreement with Israel Perhaps more importantly in the wake of growing international pressure, nearly three-quarters want Hamas to drop its call for the destruction of Israel, said the survey by the Ramallah-based Near East Consulting institute. If this is true, and they want Israel to exist, why did they vote in Hamas who STILL has said in public AFTER the election that they will NOT negotiate with Israel or stop the terrorism? I mean wtf?? They KNEW what Hamas was all about. Why would they suddenly change their minds this way and now want Hamas to stop saying Israel should be destroyed? Do the Palestinians just want the aid donations from the West or have they *truly* altered their attitudes. Forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical here. I notice Hamas is asking for the foreign aid even after they said they refused to negotiate with Israel. How many social services will they be able to provide if the aid dries up? The Palestinian terrorities are among the poorest on earth. Hamas better change or else they will completely fvck over the Palestinians. I honestly don't want my tax dollars going over there to a terrorist group. Interestingly, after I pondered the ramifications of a Hamas victory the other day, I read an article where Hamas wants to institute some kind of sharia law... can't find the link now... Taliban here we come?? First it's hijab, segegrated classes, and no alcohol; next it'll be a full-body burqa, girls can't attend school, and no music. They even burned down some Christian-owned brewery in the past. I believe Abbas still has to approve alot of these changes to the law, though. Which makes me wonder, is he next in line for an assassination attempt if Fatah-Hamas can't resolve the conflict?? Fatah is secular and Hamas is fundamentalist from the sounds of it. Civil war might not be out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattyelias Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 please, open a history book before make yourself look any dumber. israel didn't exist before 1948. their "war of independance" was a mad dash land grab with boatloads of eastern european jews shipped in to consolidate colonial europe's last curse on the world. for you to be stating that the palestinians are anti-semites is beyond idiotic. palestinians ARE semites. most israelies are NOT semites. most of them are descendants of eastern europeans. quite frankly, you are the one being anti-semitic. read a book for god's sake. Well.....while the state of Israel did not exist before 1948 that certainly does not demonstrate that a state of Palestine ever existed. As for the mad dash land grab aided by the boatloads of Eastern European Jews you are so casually referring to, should we in any way take into consideration their motivation for leaving Europe. Your point on anti-semitism is baseless as well. Any casual glance at any Palestinian media will demonstrate the widespread anti-semitism that is prevalent in Palestinian society. The whole 'Arabs are actually Semites while Jews aren't' is a pathetic and tiresome little game that is played by Jew-haters who like to veil their Jew-hatred. Anti-Semitism is a hatred of Jews. Semitic is not even a term to describe any racial characteristics. It is a term used to describe a linguistic group; the most notable Semitic languages being Hebrew, Arabic, Amharic, and Aramaic. Even if we were to somehow make Semite a racial or ethnic category, how exactly would one go about proving the 'Semitic purity' of the Palestinians. Should we forget the complete transitory nature of Bedoin Arabs who lived in the region, ethnic Turks, Albanians, and Circassians brought as soldiers to serve there and administer government functions during the Ottoman period. The region represented a melting pot of people, but hey you tell me that the Palestinians are pure Semites so it must true. I must need to read some books... Most Israeli Jews are Eastern Europeans??? Really? Whatever happened to the 130,000 Iraqi Jews, 100,000 from Morocco, the Jews of Yemen, Ethiopia, Libya, Algeria, Iran, Turkey, Syria, etc... Sefaradim constitute a majority of the Israeli Jewish population and have done so for a long time. Just because the political leadership in Israel has been dominated by Askenazim does not translate into an Ashkenazi majority among the populace. Please don't trot around pretending to be an expert when you are most certainly not. Being an advocate for the Palestinians should not mean that you are allowed to use broad generalizations in describing Israelis, which just so happen to be completely incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek21 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Tell ya one thing. I think MaddDog had a point. I heard that the Hamas sent a letter and addressed it, To whom it may concern: They won't even recognize Israel. And from the sounds of it, their goal still seems to include destroying it. Not exactly very sincere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfsharkalligatorhalfman Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 bottom line: The election of Hamas in palestine is bad news for anyone who hopes of peace being accomplished in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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