Brodeur: Devils have accepted mediocrity

[TheRedStorm]

What moves could the Devils plausibly make that having expensive third liners prevents them from doing?  Ruutu's cap hit to the Devils is basically the league average. 

 

It's terrible allocation of salary and this is what turns teams mediocre. It's where it's going to come back and bite Lamoriello. You've got 14 million tied up in a 3rd line and something like 12 and change paid out. But as i said, the way this roster looks to be constructed with deals they're probably stuck with this at some point. If they get two top 6 forwards, it'll speed this process up. Elias and Clowe are paid to be top-6 forwards.

Edited April 10, 2014 by TheRedStorm

[William D'Aquila]

I think it's definitely a little ridiculous to have 14m sitting on the third line when the team lacks any real top-end talent.  It's money sunk that would best be spent elsewhere..like on a 1st line player.

 

Of the Devils top-6 (and other scorers) this season..

 

Elias:  1W/2W

Zajac:  2C on a good team

Jagr:  2W on a good team

Henrique: 2C

Brunner: 3W (at best)

Ruutu:  3W

Clowe: 3W on a good team

Ryder: 3W, although I'd honestly argue he's less useful than that even

Zubrus: 3W at best

 

I mean..wow.  That's a pretty bad forward roster.  Jagr definitely overachieved this year which helped tremendously..unfortunately his contributions were kind of wiped out by Brunner and Ryder.

 

There's not a bona-fide first line player on this year's roster.  Wasting so much money on bottom-6 players like you're suggesting would be foolish.

I love how Stastny and JVR are just left out.

[Daniel]

I think it's definitely a little ridiculous to have 14m sitting on the third line when the team lacks any real top-end talent.  It's money sunk that would best be spent elsewhere..like on a 1st line player.

 

Of the Devils top-6 (and other scorers) this season..

 

Elias:  1W/2W

Zajac:  2C on a good team

Jagr:  2W on a good team

Henrique: 2C

Brunner: 3W (at best)

Ruutu:  3W

Clowe: 3W on a good team

Ryder: 3W, although I'd honestly argue he's less useful than that even

Zubrus: 3W at best

 

I mean..wow.  That's a pretty bad forward roster.  Jagr definitely overachieved this year which helped tremendously..unfortunately his contributions were kind of wiped out by Brunner and Ryder.

 

There's not a bona-fide first line player on this year's roster.  Wasting so much money on bottom-6 players like you're suggesting would be foolish.

 

Again, what first line player is sitting out there that the Devils are prevented from getting because of overpaid third liners?  This team has plenty of cap space, and a good, and relatively inexpensive defense, that will only get cheaper as the younger players get phased in. 

[Devils Pride 26]

What moves could the Devils plausibly make that having expensive third liners prevents them from doing? Ruutu's cap hit to the Devils is basically the league average.

Yeah, this. It certainly is one of the luxuries of having a cheap, cost controlled, efficient defense the next few years. I don't understand the argument against it. Just because they make good money means they have to play in a role over their heads? Elias - Ruutu - Clowe would be a damn good third line. Who is that stopping us from signing?

I don't think Toronto would bite on that deal, but that is a damn fine idea.

[Chuck the Duck]

The idea that this team is somehow way better but is content to lollygag around the bottom of the NHL standings is insane, and Brodeur's had the best seat in the house to watch the team quite a lot over the last 2 months, so he should know.

 

Exactly.  IMO, they played to their ability this season and ended up right about where they should be.  If they got a couple things to break differently, they might make the playoffs as the last team in.  They played hard most nights, but just didn't have enough to put a sting of wins together.  They didn't settle for anything as they are the definition of a mediocre team, in both talent and the results they achieved. 

[William D'Aquila]

It's terrible allocation of salary and it's where it's going to come back and bite Lamoriello. You've got 14 million "real" dollars tied up in a 3rd line and something like 12 an change paid out. Not only that, you've got two players...one with ZERO speed and the other that will never accept a 3rd line role if productive. But as i said, the way this roster looks to be constructed with deals they're probably stuck with this at some point. If they get two top 6 forwards, it'll speed this process up. 

How is this going to bite Lou in the future? Ruutu is gone after next year, Brunner's salary comes off the books as well, Jagr may retire after next season and Elias' contract is not longterm either.

 

So Clowe has zero speed yet you want to play in the top 6, I love your logic. 

 

I have an additional question to ask you would you play Boucher in the top 6 or on the 4th line?

[Daniel]

It's terrible allocation of salary and it's where it's going to come back and bite Lamoriello. You've got 14 million "real" dollars tied up in a 3rd line and something like 12 an change paid out. Not only that, you've got two players...one with ZERO speed and the other that will never accept a 3rd line role if productive. But as i said, the way this roster looks to be constructed with deals they're probably stuck with this at some point. If they get two top 6 forwards, it'll speed this process up. 

 

You keep avoiding the issue.  But perhaps I'll put it differently.  Let's say that the all of the players you feel are overpaid were getting what they were truly worth.  Or, I'll take it further and say they're all making the league minimum.  What moves will the Devils be in a position to make then, that they can't now?  Yeah, I suppose you could then throw ten million a year a Paul Statsny, but that would be a "terrible allocation of salary" as well. 

[lazer]

 

Disagree Lazer, Elias improved as the season went on. Have some pretzels.

 

hah beetlbum is that you, busted

 

but yeah not %100 on elias, as 3rd line vet presence ok

[TheRedStorm]

Again, what first line player is sitting out there that the Devils are prevented from getting because of overpaid third liners?  This team has plenty of cap space, and a good, and relatively inexpensive defense, that will only get cheaper as the younger players get phased in. 

 

No one, no one's even arguing that. They can go get anyone they want, but you also have to be realistic that it's not going to happen. There's not a top 10 NHL forward walking through that door this Summer. However, if life were grand and it's all fantasy, paying out 12-14 million for *that* 3rd line is asinine. 

 

 If they can get two top 6 forwards of some standing this Summer then sooner or later, you have to think those deals on the 3rd line are going to bite them somehow, someway over the next two years. These are not 3 players going into the last year of a contract. They've got Clowe, Ruutu and Elias for two years together there based on contract lengths and the only one who belongs there is Ruutu. Plus, if you think Elias is going to accept a 3rd line "demotion", you're in store for a surprise and you've got Clowe who is paid to be a top-6 sitting on a 3rd line. I mean it's a terrible deal as it is, and it'll be even more terrible on a  3rd line.

 

I mean, look, i'll take 2 of the 3 down there if i had a choice to get a couple of elite players. But all three? No. That just can't happen, not that trio.

Edited April 10, 2014 by TheRedStorm

[Devilsfan118]

I love how Stastny and JVR are just left out.

 

I was talking about the Devils' current roster.  If you'd like to throw hypothetical players in there, by all means go ahead.

 

Again, what first line player is sitting out there that the Devils are prevented from getting because of overpaid third liners?  This team has plenty of cap space, and a good, and relatively inexpensive defense, that will only get cheaper as the younger players get phased in. 

 

Perhaps none right now, but I'd hate to be in Lou's shoes if a player becomes available in a few years' time and the Devils couldn't acquire him via trade/free agency because they have too much money tied up in bad players.

[William D'Aquila]

hah beetlbum is that you, busted

 

but yeah not %100 on elias, as 3rd line vet presence ok

 

It is.

No one, but that does not mean it's not a bad allocation of salary. They can go get anyone they want, but you also have to be realistic that it's not going to happen. There's not a top 10 player walking through that door this Summer. It's not happening.  If they can get two top 6 forwards of some standing this Summer then sooner or later, you have to think those deals on the 3rd line are going to bite them somehow, someway over the next two years. These are not 3 players going into the last year of a contract. They've got Clowe, Ruutu and Elias for two years together there based on contract lengths and the only one who belongs there is Ruutu.

 

The only reason they are on the 3rd line is because the Devils acquire two new players JVR and Stastny. The former is on the cusp of being a top 10 player.

[lazer]

It is.

 

 

yew!

[Daniel]

 

 

 

Perhaps none right now, but I'd hate to be in Lou's shoes if a player becomes available in a few years' time and the Devils couldn't acquire him via trade/free agency because they have too much money tied up in bad players.

 

In a few years time, the cap could be as high as $80 million, at which time Clowe, Elias, and Zajac are a getting paid a little bit above the NHL average. 

[Triumph]

NJ is going to have a remarkably cheap defense, and that should continue for several years.  To that end, having an expensive 3rd line for two years isn't really that big of a deal.

 

But they are never going to get JVR.

[Neb00rs]

“The thing is, we used to be a team that didn’t hover over .500,” Brodeur said Wednesday afternoon. “That’s something only the last few years we’ve been content with being that."

 

Pretty much a different way of saying that they're accepting mediocrity.  If you can give him a mild pass on anything, it's that he said "we" and not "they", so he could be acknowledging that he's part of that mentality.  But to me and many others, I just want him to shut up already...it'd be one thing if he was providing Brodeur circa 2006-07 goaltending and was getting flustered that the team in front of him didn't seem to care, but like everyone knows, his level of play has factored in heavily to the dropoff of the last couple of years.  I don't think he realizes that his on-ice performance is a big part of the problem. 

 

Yes. I would have had a much bigger problem with the quote if he said, "The team has accepted mediocrity, I need to find a team where I have a chance to win again." He didn't. The quote is annoying but it's not the big deal that the headline made it out to be.

[Jerzey]

I feel like a lot of the venom Marty has been spitting is directed towards Lou. Maybe all of it is. We all know he's pissed Lou traded for Cory, but I think it's worse than we thought. He just won't stop. 

 

I'm kind of happy that someone is calling out Lou though. He needs to make some changes. It's a topic almost every summer lately, but I really wonder if he'

s going to retire after this season. He might have just been staying on until the ownership situation was resolved (and stayed on for an easy transition). Will this team even feel like the Devils without Marty and Lou? It's gonna be weird.

[DJ Eco]

Greene and Matteau for JVR and a 2nd.

 

Interrrrrrrrresting. I've never thought about trading Greene, but that might just be crazy enough to work. Greene's stock will be super high this offseason. He's essentially the poor man's Ryan McDonaugh and a lot of teams want a Ryan McDonaugh. And for anyone who think Greene in any deal is an overpayment, well, you gotta give to get.

 

I like this trade.

[Triumph]

I feel like a lot of the venom Marty has been spitting is directed towards Lou. Maybe all of it is. We all know he's pissed Lou traded for Cory, but I think it's worse than we thought. He just won't stop. 

 

I'm kind of happy that someone is calling out Lou though. He needs to make some changes. It's a topic almost every summer lately, but I really wonder if he'

s going to retire after this season. He might have just been staying on until the ownership situation was resolved (and stayed on for an easy transition). Will this team even feel like the Devils without Marty and Lou? It's gonna be weird.

 

Dude.  Brodeur is bad.  The Devils would have to be the best team in the league by far to be in position to win the division with Brodeur playing half their games.  Lou doesn't need to be called out - much of what's gone on here has been out of his hands, or written in the stars of poor drafts years ago.  You can't just magically get good in this league, that's not how it works.  Being saddled with a bad goalie who won't stop complaining can't help though.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I'd be careful about trading Greene...he's become a nice, steady, fairly-priced veteran...the kind of unspectacular but very competent guy you miss when he's gone. 

[Daniel]

I'd be careful about trading Greene...he's become a nice, steady, fairly-priced veteran...the kind of unspectacular but very competent guy you miss when he's gone. 

 

I think he's a lot more than that, and that's coming from someone who was musing about trading him to move up in last year's draft.  He should have been on the US Olympic team. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I think he's a lot more than that, and that's coming from someone who was musing about trading him to move up in last year's draft.  He should have been on the US Olympic team. 

 

I consider what I said high praise actually.  Guys like that aren't easy to find at all.  That's why I'd like to see him stick around beyond next season. 

[SterioDesign]

i wouldnt trade Greene either unless the return is REALLY worth it, in a few years he should be our "vet guy" cause with Salvador, Volchenkov, Zids gone its really not as if we can expect to have Gelinas, Merril, Larsson, Severson, Santini or wtv all a bunch of kids. We'll need a vet and i think Andy is perfect for that role.

[sundstrom]

Dude.  Brodeur is bad.  The Devils would have to be the best team in the league by far to be in position to win the division with Brodeur playing half their games.  Lou doesn't need to be called out - much of what's gone on here has been out of his hands, or written in the stars of poor drafts years ago.  You can't just magically get good in this league, that's not how it works.  Being saddled with a bad goalie who won't stop complaining can't help though.

 

it's funny - i was going to start another thread but i'll put it here because you touched on something.

 

now lately, there has been no bigger critic of marty than me. i am sitting there yelling at games "get up old man" when he dives for a save and just sits there while the play keeps going around him. and his comments drive me up a fvcking wall because his PR sense is self-serving and awful.

 

but in both his and deboer's comments today, there was a nugget that falls 100% on Lou and that's this notion early on that we've got "2 number 1's and Marty is 1 and Cory is 1A". this message is not something that anyone wants to hear, true or not. and in this case, it wasn't true. both schneider and brodeur commented how the yo-yo'ing in and out of the lineup and, at times, uncertainty got to them.

 

i can assure you that one of the most important things to hockey players playing in the NHL is to know what their role is. this should not be underestimated. "don't jerk me around - tell me what i'm supposed to do and what i can do to move up or what i shouldn't do or i'll move down."

 

public comments have praised deboer for his communication and i don't believe they are bullsh!t. his assistants - perhaps leave a little to be desired in this field btw. the roster is 100% on lou. in-game, of course that's deboer. but lou is very much in on who gets scratched. very much. and who is on the roster is 100% lou. i am repeating myself because this year's "2 number 1s" was last year's "8 defensemen" was previous' year's 19 roster players b/c of cap issues. Lou is a straight shooter with players - when he wants to be. other times, he ascribes to the mantra of "i'll speak when i want and if i don't, i don't".

 

i'm not going to second guess lou on brunner, clowe, or ryder - they made sense (injuries aside for clowe - the player he is fits well). but he handled the goaltending terribly this year from the word go. you want to publicly say something like we've got 2 #1's, fine. but privately, both goaltenders should know exactly what's going on and honesty should have been tantamount. it clearly wasn't.

[hit the post]

You can't shine sh!t and this team has more then its share of it. Get the shovel out and start cleaning it up Lou.Tell Marty thanks for everything,show Sal the door and have Pete drive him away......start over.....again.

[Triumph]

it's funny - i was going to start another thread but i'll put it here because you touched on something.

 

now lately, there has been no bigger critic of marty than me. i am sitting there yelling at games "get up old man" when he dives for a save and just sits there while the play keeps going around him. and his comments drive me up a fvcking wall because his PR sense is self-serving and awful.

 

but in both his and deboer's comments today, there was a nugget that falls 100% on Lou and that's this notion early on that we've got "2 number 1's and Marty is 1 and Cory is 1A". this message is not something that anyone wants to hear, true or not. and in this case, it wasn't true. both schneider and brodeur commented how the yo-yo'ing in and out of the lineup and, at times, uncertainty got to them.

 

i can assure you that one of the most important things to hockey players playing in the NHL is to know what their role is. this should not be underestimated. "don't jerk me around - tell me what i'm supposed to do and what i can do to move up or what i shouldn't do or i'll move down."

 

public comments have praised deboer for his communication and i don't believe they are bullsh!t. his assistants - perhaps leave a little to be desired in this field btw. the roster is 100% on lou. in-game, of course that's deboer. but lou is very much in on who gets scratched. very much. and who is on the roster is 100% lou. i am repeating myself because this year's "2 number 1s" was last year's "8 defensemen" was previous' year's 19 roster players b/c of cap issues. Lou is a straight shooter with players - when he wants to be. other times, he ascribes to the mantra of "i'll speak when i want and if i don't, i don't".

 

i'm not going to second guess lou on brunner, clowe, or ryder - they made sense (injuries aside for clowe - the player he is fits well). but he handled the goaltending terribly this year from the word go. you want to publicly say something like we've got 2 #1's, fine. but privately, both goaltenders should know exactly what's going on and honesty should have been tantamount. it clearly wasn't.

 

It's a no-win situation.  They bury Brodeur right away and he's up with the press giving quotes like he has the last 6 weeks and demanding a trade that he won't get.  Again, as I said in the other thread, you would expect injuries to bail you out in this situation much like the 8 D situation - they didn't.  Brodeur did not get injured all year, which is rather remarkable for a player who has been hurt in 4 of the last 5 years.

 

I'm sure neither guy was happy with the situation as it was, but there wasn't really a way out of it.  Say that Brodeur is #1 and you're either lying or delusional or you wasted your 9th overall pick.  I think they were pretty true to their word all things considered, both guys split the starts - Brodeur has only been a backup for the last 2 months of the season, and even then he got a pretty long run splitting starts with Schneider.