devilsrule33 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Cory doesn't look very good. It's tough to admit but if he continues like this I don't want to re-sign him. If Marty had played today and played the exact same game as Cory would you have given him that pass? I am asking sincerely. I feel like a large portion of this board has become Cory apologists. They are afraid to criticize him in any way because they built him up so much and put Marty down so much. We weren't sh!t talking Brodeur in his prime during a little struggle. Some people were complaining about this one: Gord Miller @GMillerTSN Mar 12 Worst Save % last 3 seasons (min 75 starts) Brodeur .904 Pavelec .905 Emery .905 Bryzgalov .906 Mason .906 As for Cory...holy crap, Schneider had top 5 GAA and Save percentage at the break. We are talking about a 5-6 game slide. Edited March 21, 2014 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 We aren't sh!t talking Brodeur in his prime during a little struggle. Some people were complaining about this one: Gord Miller @GMillerTSN Mar 12 Worst Save % last 3 seasons (min 75 starts) Brodeur .904 Pavelec .905 Emery .905 Bryzgalov .906 Mason .906 As for Cory...holy crap, Schneider had top GAA and Save percentage at the break. We are talking about a 5-6 game slide. Wow, Marty, Pavelec and 3 different Flyer goalies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It's one slump FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) I've probably defended Marty as much as anyone else on this board. In fact, I've said the same thing when Marty has been ripped for "softies" in the past. No goalie is perfect, and every goalie in the league gets beat clean. Fair enough. And yet you're posting in a thread that's bashing Cory lol...so clearly not everyone's an apologist. There was reason to be an apologist when he was hot and not having great luck, but there's no reason to be an apologist when he sucks and is still not winning games for the most part despite better goal support since the break. To be fair though, it was started by 7 who is generally an outlier among the mainstream. We weren't sh!t talking Brodeur in his prime during a little struggle. Some people were complaining about this one: Gord Miller @GMillerTSN Mar 12 Worst Save % last 3 seasons (min 75 starts) Brodeur .904 Pavelec .905 Emery .905 Bryzgalov .906 Mason .906 As for Cory...holy crap, Schneider had top GAA and Save percentage at the break. We are talking about a 5-6 game slide. Neither goalie has been good imo. He might have been good up until the break but if this few games are able to affect his numbers that much than obviously he hadn't played that many games. Either ways, I support Cory, all I am saying is that he doesn't look good in goal right now, certainly not enough to warrant a big contract. I am hoping he does enough before the end of the season to make a convincing argument for himself. Though I suppose there is the point (I think you made it) that we can get him for cheaper when he's suckier. Edited March 21, 2014 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Brodeur has used up all of his passes. He's through as a starting goaltender in this league. That's why he doesn't get passes and why Schneider, who is a .920+ lifetime goalie, does. Everyone knows he can play better because they saw it for the first 2/3rds of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Brodeur has used up all of his passes. He's through as a starting goaltender in this league. That's why he doesn't get passes and why Schneider, who is a .920+ lifetime goalie, does. Everyone knows he can play better because they saw it for the first 2/3rds of the season. Which is why the rest of the season will either solidify what we originally believed about Cory or at least for me, make me question it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Which is why the rest of the season will either solidify what we originally believed about Cory or at least for me, make me question it. There might not be time for that. At the rate it's going Saturday may be the last really pressure game of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 There might not be time for that. At the rate it's going Saturday may be the last really pressure game of the season. That doesn't matter. If Cory puts up good numbers, I don't really care if the Devils win or lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 The thing with Cory is that's he's never really had to play bigtime pressure regular season games in Vancouver the past 3 years because they were such a good team. This is the first time he's really been under the gun so to speak Bottom line is that there are some alarming bad habits. Footwork, positioning on bad angle goals, response to bad goals Right now we're really finding out what Schneider is. Is he Osgood? Is he Bunny Larocque? Or can he be elite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 That doesn't matter. If Cory puts up good numbers, I don't really care if the Devils win or lose. I meant the games'll pretty much be meaningless down the stretch if we lose Saturday. It won't matter one way or the other what Cory does after that, if he's even playing Saturday (though I assume he'll have to play cause of the whole 'won your last start' factor, unless they're scared of Marty dropping some more dirty laundry if he doesn't get his shot at revenge for Yankee Stadium). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The thing with Cory is that's he's never really had to play bigtime pressure regular season games in Vancouver the past 3 years because they were such a good team. This is the first time he's really been under the gun so to speak Bottom line is that there are some alarming bad habits. Footwork, positioning on bad angle goals, response to bad goals Right now we're really finding out what Schneider is. Is he Osgood? Is he Bunny Larocque? Or can he be elite? Cory Schneider faced more pressure with the media and the goaltending battle between him and Luongo than he has this season. I'm not worried about handling the pressure. He is a little off his game, and hopefully he gets going again very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) I meant the games'll pretty much be meaningless down the stretch if we lose Saturday. It won't matter one way or the other what Cory does after that, if he's even playing Saturday (though I assume he'll have to play cause of the whole 'won your last start' factor, unless they're scared of Marty dropping some more dirty laundry if he doesn't get his shot at revenge for Yankee Stadium). I understand but I'm saying that even if the Devils go all youngsters we will still get to see Cory play and how well he plays in that situation. Cory Schneider faced more pressure with the media and the goaltending battle between him and Luongo than he has this season. I'm not worried about handling the pressure. He is a little off his game, and hopefully he gets going again very soon. I think 7 has a good point with Vancouver being a good team. There are a lot of goalies who probably wouldn't be nearly as good on the Devils as their team and that says something for how we need to go about evaluating Cory in what he does now. I wouldn't want Cory Crawford or Antii Niemi on this team. Hopefully though, your hope that he "gets going again" comes to fruition and the debate can end. Cory really doesn't have to do too much for too long to win me over, I think my expectations are fair. Anyways, he has to win over Pete and Lou, not me. Edited March 21, 2014 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The thing with Cory is that's he's never really had to play bigtime pressure regular season games in Vancouver the past 3 years because they were such a good team. This is the first time he's really been under the gun so to speak Bottom line is that there are some alarming bad habits. Footwork, positioning on bad angle goals, response to bad goals Right now we're really finding out what Schneider is. Is he Osgood? Is he Bunny Larocque? Or can he be elite? Yes, he's Osgood. Now please find me a 125 game stretch of Osgood's career where he has been an elite goalie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I understand but I'm saying that even if the Devils go all youngsters we will still get to see Cory play and how well he plays in that situation. I think 7 has a good point with Vancouver being a good team. There are a lot of goalies who probably wouldn't be nearly as good on the Devils as their team and that says something for how we need to go about evaluating Cory in what he does now. I wouldn't want Cory Crawford or Antii Niemi on this team. Hopefully though, your hope that he "gets going again" comes to fruition and the debate can end. Cory really doesn't have to do too much for too long to win me over, I think my expectations are fair. Anyways, he has to win over Pete and Lou, not me. That's hilarious, no offense. The Devils are and have always been an excellent excellent excellent excellent defensive team. A lot better than most of those playoff teams. Schneider has had a much easier time this year than in Vancouver. He simply hasn't been as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm not impressed with him and frankly I do not want the Devils to re-sign him. He never makes a big save at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 That's hilarious, no offense. The Devils are and have always been an excellent excellent excellent excellent defensive team. A lot better than most of those playoff teams. Schneider has had a much easier time this year than in Vancouver. He simply hasn't been as good. It's not though. I think there are plenty of teams in the league today who make their goalies look better by A. scoring more goals and B. By preventing more goals long before they ever even become scoring chances. Starting from 2010-11 when Cory was starting a legitimate amount of games, the Canucks have gone 1st, 4th, and 18th in the league in scoring respectively. 18th came during the lockout and was still 10 spots better than the Devils. From 10-11 through 12-13, Vancouver also went 1st, 4th, and 14th in the league in goal differential respectively. The Devils went 25th, 9th, 24th respectively. In 2010-11 Vancouver scored first in 41 of their wins (1st in the league). In 2011-12 they scored first in 42 of their wins (1st in the league). In 2012-13 they scored first in 20 of their wins (6th in the league). For NJD in the same time span: 2010-11: scored first in 27 of their wins (19th). 2011-12: scored first in 32 of their wins (7th). 2012-13: scored first in 14 of their wins (23rd). This year, New Jersey is 28th in PP time, that means more time in the defensive zone. Vancouver constantly finishes first in the league in all PP stats. I am not saying this means the world but it is just a few examples of how the pressure in Vancouver can be lessened. Again, not saying this actually covered up for any of Cory's flaws or generated his astronomical save percentages but it shows that he needs to prove himself on the Devils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Somebody pinch me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Maybe if he made a big ****ing stop once in a while late in games I could live with his soft angle bs. off the top of my head, i recall the columbus game at home where he made some big stops late when columbus was coming back - there was amazing lateral save late that brodeur would have been 20 minutes behind. he has not been great since the break - full stop. he's also so positionally sound that many saves he makes the shot look like less quality because the shooter is putting it right into his chest. cory isn't the messiah but before the last 5 games, he was vezina quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Yes, he's Osgood. Now please find me a 125 game stretch of Osgood's career where he has been an elite goalie. I love Schneider, but it's hard to say Schneider was an elite goalie when his career high in games was 33. Nobody truly thinks Mariano Rivera is the greatest pitcher of all time, do they? I'm not impressed with him and frankly I do not want the Devils to re-sign him. He never makes a big save at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It's not though. I think there are plenty of teams in the league today who make their goalies look better by A. scoring more goals and B. By preventing more goals long before they ever even become scoring chances. Starting from 2010-11 when Cory was starting a legitimate amount of games, the Canucks have gone 1st, 4th, and 18th in the league in scoring respectively. 18th came during the lockout and was still 10 spots better than the Devils. From 10-11 through 12-13, Vancouver also went 1st, 4th, and 14th in the league in goal differential respectively. The Devils went 25th, 9th, 24th respectively. In 2010-11 Vancouver scored first in 41 of their wins (1st in the league). In 2011-12 they scored first in 42 of their wins (1st in the league). In 2012-13 they scored first in 20 of their wins (6th in the league). For NJD in the same time span: 2010-11: scored first in 27 of their wins (19th). 2011-12: scored first in 32 of their wins (7th). 2012-13: scored first in 14 of their wins (23rd). This year, New Jersey is 28th in PP time, that means more time in the defensive zone. Vancouver constantly finishes first in the league in all PP stats. I am not saying this means the world but it is just a few examples of how the pressure in Vancouver can be lessened. Again, not saying this actually covered up for any of Cory's flaws or generated his astronomical save percentages but it shows that he needs to prove himself on the Devils. We don't need to use PP time as a measure of zone time. Anyway, Schneider has a comparable in Vancouver, and it is Luongo. Cory's stats were miles better. It seems you are almost doing a disservice to Brodeur by talking about a goalie on a great team because Brodeur has been on very good teams almost his entire career. Good team or not, Cory Schneider was excellent during his time there. Ridiculously good. The thing is there have been a lot of great teams, and that doesn't necessarily mean there numbers were good. Osgood is an easy example. Fleury continues to put up average numbers at best. Niemi in Chicago and now San Jose, Emery in Ottawa, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 #DevilsFansDeserveTheDevils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 What are we gonna be like if we have to endure an Oilers-esque rebuild? What will this board be like? When it's all said and done, will the Devils still have fans? I fear for a 4 or 5 year lean period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 What are we gonna be like if we have to endure an Oilers-esque rebuild? What will this board be like? When it's all said and done, will the Devils still have fans? I fear for a 4 or 5 year lean period. A large portion of this fanbase cannot handle a true losing team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The thing that fans who welcome a rebuild don't understand about an Oilers esque rebuild is that while yeah in Year 3 you've hopefully got 3 or 4 guys you like and you're excited about, you've got 10-12 guys who are literal dead weight who you have to see for half the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewarkDevil5 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The thing that fans who welcome a rebuild don't understand about an Oilers esque rebuild is that while yeah in Year 3 you've hopefully got 3 or 4 guys you like and you're excited about, you've got 10-12 guys who are literal dead weight who you have to see for half the game. I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as that, Tri. I think people view the Oilers as the only model for a rebuild. I'd be more inclined to try an Avalanche style rebuild. Their better players retired (Sakic, Roy) and they went into a brief point at the bottom and, using guys they drafted from there like Gabriel Landeskog and Matt Duchesne they've steadily climbed back into contention. They weren't that bad for that long and they didn't get the "home run" draft picks like Sidney Crosby or Evgeny Malkin, nor did they stay at the bottom grabbing every undersized offensive player to attract attention in the CHL like the Oilers have. That is the kind of rebuild I'd aspire towards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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