If the team continues to struggle, does Lou start to feel the heat?

[Devilsfan118]

*Let me preface this by saying that anyone who's read my posts here knows I am VERY pro LL, and I respect him greatly for what he's done for this organization (ie, bringing it from irrelevance to greatness).  I waited overnight to make this thread with the hope that most of the bitterness from that awful loss would dissipate so that we could get an actual discussion going.*

So it goes without saying that Lou Lamoriello is one of the main reasons the Devils are where they are today.  Without his guidance and leadership it's quite possible the Devils wouldn't even be in New Jersey today.

 

However..as we're seeing with Marty, time catches up to everyone eventually, even the greatest of the great.  Lou's recent decisions have many of us scratching our heads, with some of the free agent acquisitions and re-signings these past few offseasons looking like the worst of his tenure.  It's obviously tough for a team to lose talent like the Devils have (I personally don't blame Lou for Parise and Clarkson walking, but that's up for debate as well), but this team is just ill equipped to play in today's NHL.  Again, how much of that is directly Lou's fault is up for discussion, but he, along with PDB, is likely to have blame put on his shoulders.  It's always easier to blame and remove management than athletes.

 

With new ownership now in place, does Lou start to feel some pressure to retire/step down if the team continues to struggle this year?  Obviously we're not even 20% of the way through the season, but 3 wins in the first 14 games of a season (which puts this franchise is the same neighborhood as the lowly Sabres and Panthers, and the rebuilding Oilers) has to be frustrating for all parties involved. 

 

How badly would the Devils have to finish this season for the new ownership to 'politely ask' Lou to step down as GM?  They've already shown they're prepared for a lengthy PR battle with the fans (slight sarcasm) so I don't think fan fallout would even be a concern to them.

[peteyvegas51]

He'll put the pressure on himself.

[sundstrom]

when it comes to parise, that really smacks of vanderbeek saying, "get kovalchuk now, we'll deal with parise later" and then not having the funds to do it. i'll give lou the pass there.

 

you want to let clarkson walk for the contract he got, i have no problem with it. except then you go and hand out that awful one to clowe as a replacement - that's a terrible decision.

 

the zubrus deal isn't a killer, but when you put yourself in a position to not have an alternate plan, that's what you have to do.

 

lou, for years, has been misallocating resources wrt/ personnel. the salvador contract, regardless of how good or bad he is was a mistake. it stunted the growth of guys like larsson and pushed them to lose an asset like urbom for nothing.

 

not giving up pick 29 has absolutely no defense. whether it was because they thought they'd get their goalie of the future, or took the tack that "a pick now is always more valuable than a pick later", it was a mistake from the time they did it.

 

their pro scouting has been awful of late - no unsigned free agents or european converts have been brought in. the last success they had was clarkson in this regard. But for years, they did it with madden, rafalski, etc. yeah, there's fayne and greene but what has there been over the last 4 years?

 

what is truly depressing, is there is absolutely no visible light at the end of this tunnel. they don't have tons of picks like the sabres do. outside of merrill and long shots like severson, santini and boucher, there is absolutely no youth to hang your hat on. the varsity's future is tied to zajac and henrique who are good meat and potato guys but aren't the guys who will lead your team.

 

i liked the brunner signing, but maybe we're seeing what he's all about - which is just not much.

 

its plenty depressing.

[Derlique]

*Let me preface this by saying that anyone who's read my posts here knows I am VERY pro LL, and I respect him greatly for what he's done for this organization (ie, bringing it from irrelevance to greatness). I waited overnight to make this thread with the hope that most of the bitterness from that awful loss would dissipate so that we could get an actual discussion going.*

So it goes without saying that Lou Lamoriello is one of the main reasons the Devils are where they are today. Without his guidance and leadership it's quite possible the Devils wouldn't even be in New Jersey today.

However..as we're seeing with Marty, time catches up to everyone eventually, even the greatest of the great. Lou's recent decisions have many of us scratching our heads, with some of the free agent acquisitions and re-signings these past few offseasons looking like the worst of his tenure. It's obviously tough for a team to lose talent like the Devils have (I personally don't blame Lou for Parise and Clarkson walking, but that's up for debate as well), but this team is just ill equipped to play in today's NHL. Again, how much of that is directly Lou's fault is up for discussion, but he, along with PDB, is likely to have blame put on his shoulders. It's always easier to blame and remove management than athletes.

With new ownership now in place, does Lou start to feel some pressure to retire/step down if the team continues to struggle this year? Obviously we're not even 20% of the way through the season, but 3 wins in the first 14 games of a season (which puts this franchise is the same neighborhood as the lowly Sabres and Panthers, and the rebuilding Oilers) has to be frustrating for all parties involved.

How badly would the Devils have to finish this season for the new ownership to 'politely ask' Lou to step down as GM? They've already shown they're prepared for a lengthy PR battle with the fans (slight sarcasm) so I don't think fan fallout would even be a concern to them.

Lou has been dealt a pretty sh!tty hand over the last few years. Parise and Kovy bolting, financial woes and rotten team luck. The guys he signed this off-season like Ryder, Clowe and Brunner aren't core guys, but they play a supporting role. When Elias and Zajac go down, you're left with basically nothing on offense.

If Schneider stays, the Devils are set at goalie and D for a good decade.

Lou, or whoever else is in charge, needs to pull off more Loktionov type deals. Get high potential players for less than they're worth. Turris and Wheeler are other examples of this.

The way we're constructed up front is pretty bad. At the very least, Clowe and Zubrus are terrible contracts and there isn't much pop besides a 37 year old Elias and Jagr. Will be interesting to see how they look in 3 years

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I said this in the Wild GDT, but even if the owners sounded supportive of Lou when they got here, they don't strike me as being "status quo" guys.  I think sundstrom summed it up pretty well...I've always been a pretty fervent Lou supporter, but even with the Devils' 2012 SC Finals appearance, he's made his share of moves (the keeping of the #29 overall draft pick being chief among them) that can be criticized. 

 

Just about every GM makes moves that don't work out, and has their team go through a downturn.  But like I said in the GDT, I don't think the new owners care about much that happened before they got here.  If this team finished with a poor record and out of the playoffs, it won't surprise me if Lou "steps down".  And that will be the end of an era as we knew it...not saying that the new one can't be prosperous as well, but it will be the beginning of the "New" Devils, with a change in identity.  Keep in mind that it's only a matter of time anyway...Lou can't go on forever, and he's going to go down as one of the top professional sports GMs EVER, even if the team is crashing and burning now.   

Edited November 4, 2013 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Risky]

Lou should fire himself for helping to put this team in the situation it's in.  I agree the Kovalchuk debacle was not entirely on him, but he did still preside over it.

 

The fact that we are going to have to surrender a top 5 pick this year is just sickening.  Ilya Kovalchuk and Lou Lamoriello and VDB have set this franchise back five years with the combination of signing Kovalchuk, losing Parise, and drafting Stefan fvcking Matteau.

 

This is the darkest time I can remember as a Devils' fan, and it ain't getting any better any soon.

[Derlique]

Lou should fire himself for helping to put this team in the situation it's in. I agree the Kovalchuk debacle was not entirely on him, but he did still preside over it.

The fact that we are going to have to surrender a top 5 pick this year is just sickening. Ilya Kovalchuk and Lou Lamoriello and VDB have set this franchise back five years with the combination of signing Kovalchuk, losing Parise, and drafting Stefan fvcking Matteau.

This is the darkest time I can remember as a Devils' fan, and it ain't getting any better any soon.

Disagree with your last statement. A team can do pretty well with top notch defense and goaltending. Look at the Preds in the inter-lockout period. Their best offensive player was Martin Erat. Obviously that's on the high-end of what the future Devils will/could look like, but there has been a similar model thats worked in the past

[Daniel]

Disagree with your last statement. A team can do pretty well with top notch defense and goaltending. Look at the Preds in the inter-lockout period. Their best offensive player was Martin Erat. Obviously that's on the high-end of what the future Devils will/could look like, but there has been a similar model thats worked in the past

 

The Preds also had two of the top five or ten defensemen in the league, who both had the ability to contribute offensively, especially on the powerplay.  That's basically something you can't count on to be able to replicate.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Lou should fire himself for helping to put this team in the situation it's in.  I agree the Kovalchuk debacle was not entirely on him, but he did still preside over it.

 

The fact that we are going to have to surrender a top 5 pick this year is just sickening.  Ilya Kovalchuk and Lou Lamoriello and VDB have set this franchise back five years with the combination of signing Kovalchuk, losing Parise, and drafting Stefan fvcking Matteau.

 

This is the darkest time I can remember as a Devils' fan, and it ain't getting any better any soon.

 

You haven't really experienced true darkness yet.  Not too many current Devils fans have.  The only ones who really did were the one who jumped on board the minute the Rockies came here, and even then, I think everyone knew it was going to take some serious time before the team became any good. 

 

When this team starts missing the playoffs for 3+ seasons consecutively, then we can start talking about dark times...hell, we're still less than a year-and-a-half removed from being in a Cup final.  But I'm not going to pretend I'm full of optimism as to what the immediate future holds.  I'm preparing myself for a rough year.    

[Derlique]

The Preds also had two of the top five or ten defensemen in the league, who both had the ability to contribute offensively, especially on the powerplay. That's basically something you can't count on to be able to replicate.

Devils probably have better offensive talent though. Elias, Zajac, Henrique, Clowe is better than Legwand, Erat, Wilson, etc. Not a perfect comparison, but you get the gist

[lucifer91]

Too early for "Fail for Connor McDavid"? (Yes, I know that is next year)

[jagknife]

Too early for "Fail for Connor McDavid"? (Yes, I know that is next year)

 

"Reelin' for Reinhart"... oh wait... crap 

[LucifersDog]

It's time thanks Lou

[devilsrule33]

Should Lou be feeling the heat? In some markets, absolutely. Is he going to be here with the new owners? I have no clue. Lou Lamoriello has cult status with the fans and maybe even with ownership. He isn't just a very successful GM. He was a franchise saviour. The New Jersey Devils are the New Jersey Lamoriello's. He is as iconic a figure as any player that this franchise ever had. So, I don't think he goes without any clamoring from the fans and that won't happen for a while longer. Maybe if they finish bottom 3 and don't have a 1st round pick.  And if this board is any indication, they are ready to throw Pete out of town way before Lou.

 

If new ownership is getting huge heat from fans over changing the goal song, I can't imagine what a PR nightmare for this franchise it would be if the team fired Lamoriello. As much as it pains me to say it, it could be the best thing this franchise ever did. I don't have too much time to get into much detail right now, but everything that Lou and his staff were once good at seems to have really taken a hit in the past years as Sundstrom talked about for a bit.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

dr33, in some markets, Lou never would've survived this long.  The franchise kind of spun its wheels when he first came aboard, after that '87-'88 playoff run.  Obviously it worked out wonderfully, but for the most part, fairly or unfairly, GMs often only get 3-5 years to show progress.  I think if Lemaire hadn't worked out, Lou would've been shown the door.   

[Jerzey]

His asset management is where I think he lost it for me at least.

Losing Parise, Kovy, and Clarkson all for nothing has hurt the team. Kovy I get and I know I've said it before but as soon as Zach signed that one year deal Lou should have traded him. I still think we could have gotten some great pieces from Minny if we traded him. Clarkson might not have brought back much of a return but it's better than losing him for nothing. 

 

Lou's system of making deals in the offseason is garbage. He's too loyal and too trusting of UFA's. He needs to either lock these people up or trade them while they can bring something of value back to the team. Drafting Matteau instead of giving up the pick that year was one of the worst mistakes he's made. 

 

His asset management is a big part of the reason this team is in the situation they are in now. Lou has done a lot for this franchise and the people of NJ over the years so it's hard to hold a grudge. 

Edited November 4, 2013 by Jerzey Devil

[dmann422]

For what he has done for this organization, Lou lamoriello deserves to go out when and how he decides, and not a second before that.

[NJDevils1214]

 

i liked the brunner signing, but maybe we're seeing what he's all about - which is just not much.

 

 

I am not ready to throw in the towel on Brunner yet. The guy has done pretty well so far on a team that we can all, or almost all, admit is pretty sub par in the offensive zone as of now. To get down on one new player when the entire team is failing as a unit is a little rash. This is especially true considering no one expected him to be the caliber of player like Elias, Kovy, Parise, and countless other players who have the ability to make everyone around them better. He was in Detroit with a good group of guys already around him. I see he is skating hard, trying to generate chances, and even last night tried to switch up the dump 'n fail that Zid though would eventually work a miracle. Considering the state of things right now, I like the effort he is bringing. Yea, at some point it has to start equating into goals; however, to make him liable or determine that this must be the extent of his skill when 11 other guys play up front and are failing too isn't fair. The whole situation just stinks.

Edited November 4, 2013 by NJDevils1214

[dmann422]

The problem with Brunner and Ryder is that they are snipers who don't like to cycle or go hard on the forecheck, and this system only works when all 3 forwards are doing just that.

Unfortunately we do need some shooters with finish ability, but it sure would be nice if they weren't black holes when it came to cycling/forechecking.

[Derlique]

Parise- He gave every indication that he would stay if we fielded a competitive offer. ZP and Lou both said NJ's offer was right around where Minnesota's was. I, and many others believe that the reason he chose Minny is because he got the lockout guaranteed signing bonus. There is no way, with the state of our finances back then, we could have given him millions of guaranteed money without games. I mean, I guess Lou could've locked up ZP after his knee injury, but that would've been a gamble for obvious reasons and we don't know what JVB's checkbook looked like (Hint: probably not pretty)

 

Kovalchuk- JVB obviously drove the bus with that one. Lou fleeced Waddell and even got the pick that landed us Merrill (RIP). The contract was lunacy, but once again, I wouldn't doubt that JVB told Lou to get it done, no questions asked. I will blame Lou with how he handled the rejected contract and basically challenged the NHL. However, all bias aside, the punishment did not fit the crime. Now here's the real question- how would y'all have handled Kovy's request to go back home? You can: A) keep a disgruntled player here who clearly wasn't giving it his all last season B) let him go and and gain instant/future cap flexibility or C) collude with Kovalchuk to let him go back so that a potential sale would go more swimingly. Not going to blame Lou there

 

Lesser UFA's leaving (Martin, Gionta, Clarkson)- Martin would be nice to have, but not necessary as shown by the 2012 run. Gionta is pretty meh and Clarkson's contract just reeks. Martin is the only one who probably got a fair contract. My memory is pretty hazy, but I believe is was pretty set on leaving anyway.

 

29th Pick- Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh

 

Recent UFA Aquisitions (Ryder, Clowe, Brunner, Jagr, Olesz)- 

 

Goodness that Clowe contract is awful but he is far from a useless player. He has much better playmaking abilities than Clarkson. Still, his contract is about 2 years too long and is 2 million overpaid per year. 

 

Ryder and Brunner are decent offensive pieces, though are far from core players. They need to be put in the right situation to succeed and I'm not sure NJ has the right personnel to do that. Not bad gambles though

 

Jagr- Great move and can be traded at the deadline if need be

 

Olesz- Low risk, medium reward. No problem here

 

Recent Trades of Note:

 

Tallinder for Useless Minor Leaguer- Obvious roster dump, but he's certainly missed. Easiest guy to move and I remember most of NJDevs praised the trade so Larsson and younger players would have room

 

Loktionov for 5th Round Pick- Brilliant move, even if Loktionov has been underwhelming this season. Like I said earlier, this is the kind of thing Lou needs to pull off in order to give our offense new, young blood. Grigorenko, perhaps?

 

Schneider for 9th overall- Another no brainer. Re-signing him will be a different matter though

 

Re-signing of players since '12- 

 

Travis Zajac- Length is fine, probably a bit overpaid but I think these last two games kind of prove how important he is. Does it all, although you feel he could do more offensively. Absolutely necessary to lock him up

 

Patrik Elias- You give the man anything he wants. Still a fantastic player even if the 3rd year could be ugly

 

Zubrus- Looks done to be honest. Early returns aren't flattering and it won't be getting any better

 

Bryce Salvador- Was ready to kick him to the curb after last season, but has rebounded nicely. Still don't like the contract, but whatever

 

Adam Henrique- Getting paid a million too much but another necessary move. Locks up some UFA years to boot

 

Mark Fayne- Another good move. Wish Deboer liked him more 

 

Zidlicky- One year, so not a big deal. Can flip him at the deadline if it comes to that

 

Summation-

 

I ask everyone here: what could Lou have done differently personnel wise? The only thing I could think of is maybe take a flier on Semin, but he was coming off a putrid year in Washington. The losses of Parise and Kovy weren't his fault. The Schneider trade was larssony (heh). Some of the newer contracts stink but every GM makes those sort of mistakes. With Brodeur, Zids and Jagr gone, there will be a ton of space to make changes. 

[NJDevils1214]

The ability to control, and keep control, of the puck down low like in the cup run is certainly missing right now. The hard workers and big bodies are either gone or not getting the job done(Zubrus). The team has finishers, but not enough skill or the system in place to score on the rush.

Edited November 4, 2013 by NJDevils1214

[Devilsfan118]

For what he has done for this organization, Lou lamoriello deserves to go out when and how he decides, and not a second before that.

I'm not attacking you personally here, but this is quite possibly the worst mentality the new owners could take. This could doom the devils even further.

No one deserves absolute freedom in the sports business.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Devilsfan118

[dmann422]

I'm not attacking you personally here, but this is quite possibly the worst mentality the new owners could take. This could doom the devils even further. No one deserves absolute freedom in the sports business.

without Lou's leadership, this team is long gone from New Jersey. So as a fan of this team solely because I'm an nj native, yes he does deserve a lifetime pass from fans.

The owners can do what they want but I won't necessarily agree with it. Plus people are overreacting here he hasn't been that bad (as was summed up nicely in szmanta's post)

[Devilsfan118]

without Lou's leadership, this team is long gone from New Jersey. So as a fan of this team solely because I'm an nj native, yes he does deserve a lifetime pass from fans.

The owners can do what they want but I won't necessarily agree with it. Plus people are overreacting here he hasn't been that bad (as was summed up nicely in szmanta's post)

 

So, by logic, does Marty 'deserve' to be the starting goaltender as long as he desires to be?  It's the same situation, and I think sometimes the greats have a hard time realizing when they've lost their edge.

[Jerzey]

Parise- He gave every indication that he would stay if we fielded a competitive offer. ZP and Lou both said NJ's offer was right around where Minnesota's was. I, and many others believe that the reason he chose Minny is because he got the lockout guaranteed signing bonus. There is no way, with the state of our finances back then, we could have given him millions of guaranteed money without games. I mean, I guess Lou could've locked up ZP after his knee injury, but that would've been a gamble for obvious reasons and we don't know what JVB's checkbook looked like (Hint: probably not pretty)

 

Kovalchuk- JVB obviously drove the bus with that one. Lou fleeced Waddell and even got the pick that landed us Merrill (RIP). The contract was lunacy, but once again, I wouldn't doubt that JVB told Lou to get it done, no questions asked. I will blame Lou with how he handled the rejected contract and basically challenged the NHL. However, all bias aside, the punishment did not fit the crime. Now here's the real question- how would y'all have handled Kovy's request to go back home? You can: A) keep a disgruntled player here who clearly wasn't giving it his all last season B) let him go and and gain instant/future cap flexibility or C) collude with Kovalchuk to let him go back so that a potential sale would go more swimingly. Not going to blame Lou there

 

Lesser UFA's leaving (Martin, Gionta, Clarkson)- Martin would be nice to have, but not necessary as shown by the 2012 run. Gionta is pretty meh and Clarkson's contract just reeks. Martin is the only one who probably got a fair contract. My memory is pretty hazy, but I believe is was pretty set on leaving anyway.

 

29th Pick- Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh

 

Recent UFA Aquisitions (Ryder, Clowe, Brunner, Jagr, Olesz)- 

 

Goodness that Clowe contract is awful but he is far from a useless player. He has much better playmaking abilities than Clarkson. Still, his contract is about 2 years too long and is 2 million overpaid per year. 

 

Ryder and Brunner are decent offensive pieces, though are far from core players. They need to be put in the right situation to succeed and I'm not sure NJ has the right personnel to do that. Not bad gambles though

 

Jagr- Great move and can be traded at the deadline if need be

 

Olesz- Low risk, medium reward. No problem here

 

Recent Trades of Note:

 

Tallinder for Useless Minor Leaguer- Obvious roster dump, but he's certainly missed. Easiest guy to move and I remember most of NJDevs praised the trade so Larsson and younger players would have room

 

Loktionov for 5th Round Pick- Brilliant move, even if Loktionov has been underwhelming this season. Like I said earlier, this is the kind of thing Lou needs to pull off in order to give our offense new, young blood. Grigorenko, perhaps?

 

Schneider for 9th overall- Another no brainer. Re-signing him will be a different matter though

 

Re-signing of players since '12- 

 

Travis Zajac- Length is fine, probably a bit overpaid but I think these last two games kind of prove how important he is. Does it all, although you feel he could do more offensively. Absolutely necessary to lock him up

 

Patrik Elias- You give the man anything he wants. Still a fantastic player even if the 3rd year could be ugly

 

Zubrus- Looks done to be honest. Early returns aren't flattering and it won't be getting any better

 

Bryce Salvador- Was ready to kick him to the curb after last season, but has rebounded nicely. Still don't like the contract, but whatever

 

Adam Henrique- Getting paid a million too much but another necessary move. Locks up some UFA years to boot

 

Mark Fayne- Another good move. Wish Deboer liked him more 

 

Zidlicky- One year, so not a big deal. Can flip him at the deadline if it comes to that

 

Summation-

 

I ask everyone here: what could Lou have done differently personnel wise? The only thing I could think of is maybe take a flier on Semin, but he was coming off a putrid year in Washington. The losses of Parise and Kovy weren't his fault. The Schneider trade was larssony (heh). Some of the newer contracts stink but every GM makes those sort of mistakes. With Brodeur, Zids and Jagr gone, there will be a ton of space to make changes. 

 

Agree with a lot, just not about Zach. If Zach really had every intention of re-signing he would not have signed that one year deal. That was an obvious sign that Lou missed IMO. Very big mishandling of assets there especially for a high profile guy like Zach.

 

As for losing some of the lesser players to UFA while them leaving didn't really impact our team it would have been nice to get back a pick or prospect instead of just losing them for nothing. I get that when you think you are a contender it doesn't make sense to trade players at the deadline which is why I don't think it should even get that far. If you can't get a deal done before the season then there's an obvious reason why. Lou's "No contact talks during the season" is just stupid IMO. Not everyone is as loyal as Marty and Elias and I think that Lou thinks everyone is or should be.

 

I do like the recent signings except for Clowe (so far). And Lou is magical with trades.