koolkoreankid23 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 List your top 5 greatest d-men of all-time. Number 1 is pretty obvious. My list has changed like 20 times already. But here's my latest. 1. Bobby Orr 2. Paul Coffey 3. Ray Bourque 4. Denis Potvin 5. Larry Robinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRASHER Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Paul Coffey?? Shouldn't you be able to PLAY defense to qualify on this list??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 My list: 1. Bobby Orr 2. Doug Harvey 3. Larry Robinson 4. Eddie Shore 5. Red Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oconnellrules Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 in my universe, these are my picks; 1. Bobby Orr 2. Larry Robinson 3. Brian Leetch 4. Niklas Lidstrom 5. Scott Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas0nMacIsaac Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Bobby Orr Doug Harvey Eddie Shore Denis Potvin Raymond Bourque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 in my universe, these are my picks;1. Bobby Orr 2. Larry Robinson 3. Brian Leetch 4. Niklas Lidstrom 5. Scott Stevens I'd have to say I don't think Leetch and Stevens belong there. Stevens was a great leader and special to us... but he didn't have all the ability to be a versatile defenseman all-around. Leetch was a Ranger. He was good in 1994. The only reason people think he is great is because we constantly see him in random pointless ceremonies. Not saying you're wrong... I'm probably the only person that is going to put Red Kelly on a list haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallidevils Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Brian Leetch??? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 1. Orr 2. Stevens 3. Robinson 4. Shore 5. Potvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'd have to say I don't think Leetch and Stevens belong there. Stevens was a great leader and special to us... but he didn't have all the ability to be a versatile defenseman all-around. Are you kidding me??? He is the most versatile defenseman on anyone's list. Before coming to NJ he average 60 points a season and averaged 150 PIM's. He was asked to adjust his game and he followed direction to perfection in NJ. NONE of the other defenseman on these lists could do EVERYTHING. Orr wasn't gonna drop the gloves, Coffee and Leetch could not play defense. Stevens excelled at both ends of the ice and was old time hockey if someone messed with his teammates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegame346 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The only thing Stevens didn't do was offense and rightfully so. Stevens is the #1 defenseman in my book of all time although I am probably a little partial because he was a devil. I just have never seen someone play the posistion so fluidly. Its like he was born with skates as feet I mean he was THAT good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msweet Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Stevens should be there no doubt, and in fact they should split the yearly defensive awards (I've said this before) into best offensive-defenseman (Norris) and best defensive-defenseman (Stevens) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Are you kidding me??? He is the most versatile defenseman on anyone's list. Before coming to NJ he average 60 points a season and averaged 150 PIM's. He was asked to adjust his game and he followed direction to perfection in NJ. NONE of the other defenseman on these lists could do EVERYTHING. Orr wasn't gonna drop the gloves, Coffee and Leetch could not play defense. Stevens excelled at both ends of the ice and was old time hockey if someone messed with his teammates. If they split up the awards then fine, Stevens is one of the best defensive D-men to ever play the game. But as far as this criteria goes, I can think of at least 5 D-men that I would want on my team to control the D-zone and then lead a rush and create offense. I understand Scotty may have accomplished that a certain times but it wasn't the bulk of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The only thing Stevens didn't do was offense and rightfully so. Not sure where your getting your info to make such a statement. Stevens was one of the top scoring defensemen in the league prior to adjusting his game for Lemaire. Even his first three years here he averaged 60 points and almost had 80 in his third year here. If they split up the awards then fine, Stevens is one of the best defensive D-men to ever play the game. But as far as this criteria goes, I can think of at least 5 D-men that I would want on my team to control the D-zone and then lead a rush and create offense.I understand Scotty may have accomplished that a certain times but it wasn't the bulk of his career. the bulk of his career he was among the top scoring defensemen in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squishyx Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I feel like Nieds should be somewhere near the top 5 if not on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 If they split up the awards then fine, Stevens is one of the best defensive D-men to ever play the game. But as far as this criteria goes, I can think of at least 5 D-men that I would want on my team to control the D-zone and then lead a rush and create offense.I understand Scotty may have accomplished that a certain times but it wasn't the bulk of his career. He was actually pretty formidable offensively for over half his career: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=5180 Also keep in mind that Jacques Lemaire asked Stevens to change his role, despite Stevens coming off the most prolific offensive season of his career. It's testament to Stevens that he did so without hesitation, but had he not been so unselfish he might have cracked 1000 points. (He finished with 908). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 the bulk of his career he was among the top scoring defensemen in the game. I have a hard time ranking him in the top 5 when he hit 78 points in 94 and then didn't crack 31 since. I'm not going to disagree that he wasn't great. I love the guy and I'm grateful for everything he's done for us. I just don't think he belongs on a top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have a hard time ranking him in the top 5 when he hit 78 points in 94 and then didn't crack 31 since.I'm not going to disagree that he wasn't great. I love the guy and I'm grateful for everything he's done for us. I just don't think he belongs on a top 5. As to the drop off in points...see above. I think part of the problem here is that you're also not old enough to remember his days when he was more of an offensive force. You really only got to see Stevens 2.0. As for whether he's a top 5 all-time defenseman I think it's debatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 As for whether he's a top 5 all-time defenseman I think it's debatable. Anything's debatable when you're trying to pick just five guys from at least 50 years of hockey. If you pick a guy you never saw, you can only go by what you've read or what Stan Fischler said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 As to the drop off in points...see above.I think part of the problem here is that you're also not old enough to remember his days when he was more of an offensive force. You really only got to see Stevens 2.0. As for whether he's a top 5 all-time defenseman I think it's debatable. I think you're correct on most of your points. I'm 21 years old and my first real memory of Stevens is laying out Kozlov in the 95 finals. But I try to be somewhat of a historian of the game and have seen a lot of Orr, Robinson, Shore, Red Kelly, and others... I think maybe my knowledge is skewed because the Caps and Blues teams that Stevens was a part of weren't cup winners that get a lot of press down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have a hard time ranking him in the top 5 when he hit 78 points in 94 and then didn't crack 31 since. By this standard you have to take Robinson out of this class as well as he went from 82 to 50 down to averaging 30 points a year until he retired. And almost everyone. As Colorado Rockies and others have stated Stevens adjusted his offensive game at the request of his coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) I think maybe my knowledge is skewed because the Caps and Blues teams that Stevens was a part of weren't cup winners that get a lot of press down the road. Here's what I think. Those Caps teams would have won something with a better-than-mediocre goaltender. Kevin Hatcher, Scott Stevens, Rod Langway and Larry Murphy on the same unit. Wow. Scotty was a little bit of a hothead back then. Langway played the role that Stevens later played with the Devils, and, of course, played it very well. Edited March 23, 2009 by Jerrydevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Here's what I think. Those Caps teams would have won something with a better-than-mediocre goaltender. Kevin Hatcher, Scott Stevens, Rod Langway and Larry Murphy on the same unit. Wow. Scotty was a little bit of a hothead back then. Langway played the role that Stevens later played with the Devils, and, of course, played it very well. Some of those Caps teams could score too. Ciccarelli, Courtnall, Ridley, Burridge, Kristich, Pivonka...I'm just throwing out some names I can remember offhand, but I remember Ciccarelli hurting the Devils big-time in the '89-'90 playoffs (Caps won in the first round, 4 games to 2). But yeah, their goaltending definitely hurt them. Peeters, Beaupre, Malarchuk...those guys always disappeared come playoff time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Some of those Caps teams could score too. Ciccarelli, Courtnall, Ridley, Burridge, Kristich, Pivonka. The 1980s Caps also had Dave Christian, Bobby Carpenter and Mike Gartner. At any rate, you're right, those teams had talent up front, too, especially Gartner. That guy was really, really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The 1980s Caps also had Dave Christian, Bobby Carpenter and Mike Gartner. At any rate, you're right, those teams had talent up front, too, especially Gartner. That guy was really, really good. My last post on this before we go too far off-topic, but Gartner scored what I always called "Gartner goals"...meaningless, cosmetic-type goals. I'm sure they weren't ALL meaningless (and he did score a lot of 'em) but they sure seemed that way. He never did anything come playoff time either. There's a reason the Caps traded him for Cicarelli, and the Rangers traded him for Glenn Anderson in '94. Carpenter was a big bust of a trade for the Rangers...the Rags surrendered Mike Ridley and Kelly Miller. That one haunted the Rags for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 My last post on this before we go too far off-topic, but Gartner scored what I always called "Gartner goals"...meaningless, cosmetic-type goals. I'm sure they weren't ALL meaningless (and he did score a lot of 'em) but they sure seemed that way. I always thought this was exaggerated, but he did tail off a bit in the playoffs. That the Rangers won the Cup after they traded him (even though Glenn Anderson didn't do a heck of a lot), kind of fed the anti-Gartner sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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