Sale of Phoenix may finally be here

[Triumph]

Sure it is. If Jamison owned the team that was bleeding money, how long would that last before he went under? It's not a profitable investment. The city of Glendale is out millions of dollars no matter how this goes down, because they were dumb enough to pay for an arena. Let them try Kansas City or Seattle.

[DH26]

Sure it is. If Jamison owned the team that was bleeding money, how long would that last before he went under? It's not a profitable investment. The city of Glendale is out millions of dollars no matter how this goes down, because they were dumb enough to pay for an arena. Let them try Kansas City or Seattle.

I just meant for Phoenix fans. It would've bought them a couple years and then the inevitable would've happened. I'm glad they're gonna end up moving though, that team staying there makes no sense and it's in the league's best interest to have a team people care about that can support itself

[Chuck the Duck]

Clearly Bettman and the league made a lot of promises to the City of Glendale to get that arena built. Have you ever seen a league bend over backwards to try to prevent a team from leaving a market the way the NHL has in this situation?

I don't want to see that team moved, and I feel bad for the hardcore fans there, but nobody with the means is willing to invest in this team. If Jamison couldn't get his finances together after the sweetheart lease re-negotiation Glendale just gave him, I highly doubt anybody will. I get the feeling that Phoenix will be moving to Quebec City and switching conferences with the Jets starting next season.

[DH26]

Clearly Bettman and the league made a lot of promises to the City of Glendale to get that arena built. Have you ever seen a league bend over backwards to try to prevent a team from leaving a market the way the NHL has in this situation?

I don't want to see that team moved, and I feel bad for the hardcore fans there, but nobody with the means is willing to invest in this team. If Jamison couldn't get his finances together after the sweetheart lease re-negotiation Glendale just gave him, I highly doubt anybody will. I get the feeling that Phoenix will be moving to Quebec City and switching conferences with the Jets starting next season.

I dunno if it's surprising to see him bending over backward to save a franchise, just weird that it would be THIS franchise when there were other ones in the past to protect. Hartford, Quebec, first Jets, were more popular and had more of a following than this team though they weren't as successful though Quebec would've been had they stayed another year (though Roy probably doesn't get traded there then).

Look at Atlanta, they just got shuffled out without a fight from Bettman at all but Phoenix has been going on for 4 years since Balsillie first tried to buy them in bankruptcy court and Bettman's basically trying as hard as he can to sell this team to Boots Del Baggio 2.0

[thefiestygoat]

Moving the Coyotes to Quebec makes a ton of sense. I'm really pulling for the people of Quebec to get a team back. I don't want expansion nor do I buy the rumors but for the sake of discussion, let's say the Coyotes move to Quebec then in a few years the NHL adds 2 new teams. I'd have to think Seattle would be option #1 and Markham aka Toronto 2 (though it's far from certain they get the arena done) would be option #2. I think there's definitely enough hockey fans in the Greater Toronto Area to support a team in Markham, especially if they brand it as Ontario. The NHL should be well off with 2 additional teams in Canada as well as collecting a relocation fee and 2 expansion fees.

[Triumph]

I dunno if it's surprising to see him bending over backward to save a franchise, just weird that it would be THIS franchise when there were other ones in the past to protect. Hartford, Quebec, first Jets, were more popular and had more of a following than this team though they weren't as successful though Quebec would've been had they stayed another year (though Roy probably doesn't get traded there then).

Look at Atlanta, they just got shuffled out without a fight from Bettman at all but Phoenix has been going on for 4 years since Balsillie first tried to buy them in bankruptcy court and Bettman's basically trying as hard as he can to sell this team to Boots Del Baggio 2.0

Atlanta's ownership problems had been going on for years. Like max said, the building didn't even want the Thrashers there anymore.

What holds Hartford, Quebec, and Winnipeg together? If you guessed an unwillingness to use public money to fund arenas that might keep the team there, you'd be correct. The league tried to keep those teams where they were, but if a team's lease has expired and the owner wants to move the team, there's not much the league can do.

[DH26]

Atlanta's ownership problems had been going on for years. Like max said, the building didn't even want the Thrashers there anymore.

What holds Hartford, Quebec, and Winnipeg together? If you guessed an unwillingness to use public money to fund arenas that might keep the team there, you'd be correct. The league tried to keep those teams where they were, but if a team's lease has expired and the owner wants to move the team, there's not much the league can do.

W/ Winnipeg, they couldn't find anyone to buy the team and Bettman apparently said (according to Wikipedia) nobody seriously wants to buy the team. The same's obviously true here but he holds them there. I guess Phoenix having the modern, new arena is maybe the difference between the two but it didn't seem to be the main reason they left. I've heard other people like Jeff Marek say the same thing: the arena was bad but it wasn't the reason they left when they did; it was because nobody wanted to own them.

[maxpower]

At this point you just have to cut your losses, no? The city is already headed for certain bankruptcy whether the team stays or goes.

No, I agree, it's over. It'll be interesting to see the local fallout from this... there had to be alot of shady things going down. And now the arena is going to be a white elephant.

[thefiestygoat]

The most forthcoming statement from a NHL official about the Coyotes potentially relocating:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2013/01/31/spf-nhl-bill-daly-hnic-radio-phoenix-quebec-ontario.html

Will Coyotes franchise be moved if someone other than the league doesn’t own it by end of this season?

“It’s a fair question,” said Daly. “Up to this point the franchise has remained [in Glendale]. We’re closer to executing an alternative [plan] right now than we were five months ago but I’m not going to make any predictions with respect to what happens after this year.”

The NHL had the Winnipeg ownership group as an alternative plan for 2 years. I bet they have a group lined up in Quebec.

[Marshall]

The NHL had the Winnipeg ownership group as an alternative plan for 2 years. I bet they have a group lined up in Quebec.

Does Quebec have an NHL-ready arena? I think Seattle makes more sense right now, given that they have an arena and an NBA team.

[MadDog2020]

Does Quebec have an NHL-ready arena? I think Seattle makes more sense right now, given that they have an arena and an NBA team.

If an NHL team moves to Quebec, they will play at Le Colisee (which I believe was renovated) for 2 seasons I think and then move in to the new arena after that. I remember hearing that sometime last year.

[SterioDesign]

If an NHL team moves to Quebec, they will play at Le Colisee (which I believe was renovated) for 2 seasons I think and then move in to the new arena after that. I remember hearing that sometime last year.

yup. i'm all for a move to Quebec it may not be as big as Seattle and i know fans from Seattle are really passionate in sports and that in the long run it could work, also obviously the business and economy is better in Seattle, but i simply know that their hockey desire is not even close to be what people from Quebec have and would bring right off the bat.

NHL and an organization wouldnt have to "sell the game" and find ridiculous ways to get people in the seats in Quebec like some place in the US where it's clearly failing. The collisé would be sell out every single games of the season. IMO you can have the richest city in the world but if the people in it doesnt give a sh!t about the game you won't make much more profit than a smaller city with an already set fan base who's gonna bring a good cash flow in merch and tickets.

[Devil Dan 56]

yup. i'm all for a move to Quebec it may not be as big as Seattle and i know fans from Seattle are really passionate in sports and that in the long run it could work, also obviously the business and economy is better in Seattle, but i simply know that their hockey desire is not even close to be what people from Quebec have and would bring right off the bat.

NHL and an organization wouldnt have to "sell the game" and find ridiculous ways to get people in the seats in Quebec like some place in the US where it's clearly failing. The collisé would be sell out every single games of the season. IMO you can have the richest city in the world but if the people in it doesnt give a sh!t about the game you won't make much more profit than a smaller city with an already set fan base who's gonna bring a good cash flow in merch and tickets.

This exactly. Quebec is a gimme. Brand new arena on the way, built in fan base. Now the real question... will they be the Nords once again??

[SterioDesign]

It also won't just be an arena but a multifunctional center for Quebecor which is is one of Canada's largest media company and they have the "J'ai ma place" project on the go.

http://www.jaimaplac...en/page/project (very interesting read / project)

J’ai ma place is a plan to build a new multipurpose amphitheater in Quebec City to host cultural and sports events. The new $240 million facility would be comparable to the Bell Center in Montreal and would have a seating capacity of about 20,000 people. According to a preliminary schedule, the undertaking would be completed within 5 years.

The first step is to assess the interest of the population and the business community by raising $50 million. A financial contribution is being sought in the form of seat purchases. This contribution entitles the purchaser to advance ticket purchase priority. Afterwards, a financing package could be completed through contributions from the City of Quebec and the provincial and federal governments. The financing package for this plan may require a period of 24 to 36 months.

that first step is actually already achieved.

http://www.quebecor.com/en

they'll be able to broadcast games right from their own facility and auto suffice themselves in many areas with that plan.

Edited February 1, 2013 by SterioDesign

[BCdevil]

If the Coyotes relocate, I think it will be to Seattle. The expansion teams, with higher price tags, will be reserved for Toronto and Quebec.

[DevilMinder]

Do the players get a cut of the expansion fees? I can't recall

[Triumph]

Do the players get a cut of the expansion fees? I can't recall

No. But if the NHL expands to big markets, the players will see an increase in the salary cap.

[DH26]

If the Coyotes relocate, I think it will be to Seattle. The expansion teams, with higher price tags, will be reserved for Toronto and Quebec.

Key Arena's apparently only ready for 10-11K seats for hockey so they might wait on that so Quebec seems to be the only one w/ an arena assuming the Colisee is good enough

Seattle Not ready for relocation

[thefiestygoat]

Warning: Bumping this thread to post my own speculation because I'm bored.

 

Right now things appear fairly quiet out of Glendale and QC. Bill Daly (NHL deputy comish) denied Quebecor Inc. has begun negotiations for the Coyotes. This came after well connected journalist and employee of Quebecor, Réjean Tremblay, told a local sports radio station this news. Quebecor has also denied the report here and offered no comment here. As we all remember the NHL kept the Thrashers/Jets news quiet for as long as possible and the Winnipeg ownership group kept quiet for years leading up to it, despite talks with the NHL. I suspect that is what is going on right now. A look back at the Thrashers/Jets saga:

 

May  16 - Atlanta Journal-Constitution report talks for a sale to True North Sports and Entertainment underway.
May 19 - Globe and Mail report deal finalized to relocate.
May 31 - TNSE and NHL announce deal.

 

The newspaper reports came out during the Conference Finals and the deal was announced before the start of the SCF. The playoffs are running behind that schedule this year because of the late start with the lockout so we should be on the cusp of this period if relocation to QC was to happen.

 

I'm kind of rambling but here are the similarities I see going on between the Thrashers/Jets and Coyotes/QC situations:

1) Both sides are denying and/or no commenting on it.

2) A star journalist with ties to the relocating ownership group are leaking news. (Stephen Brunt reported the Jets deal for the Globe and Mail - owned by David Thomson of True North Sports....Réjean Tremblay reporting negotations underway and he is an employee of Quebecor Inc. who are trying to buy the Coyotes).

3) The time frame of when news started to come out and the deal was negotiated and signed was in mid-May to late-May in 2011, during the Conference Finals. We're about to get to that point in about a week and with the late start, a similar time frame would be late-May to early-June - just as long as it won't interfere with the late starting SCF.

 

I could be looking into all of this way too much and maybe the NHL will hold onto the team for another year. I wouldn't be shocked either way. Right now the NHL rejected Darin Pastor's bid for Phoenix Coyotes, Greg Jamison is appearantly trying to jump back into the mix but seems like a longshot, and the only other local group out there is led by George Gosbee and Anthony LeBlanc but I'm not sure how serious of players they are - they will have a ton of work to do with a relucatant City of Glendale mayor/council. Seems like a great oppurtunity for the NHL to rid itself of a headache and bring in some $$$ into the league between relocation fees and revenue by QC.

[Colin226]

Can't see it before next season since they went through the trouble of realigning the league and this would nix that.. I'm not even sure how they would do another realignment without moving someone from the eastern time zone to the western conference

[thefiestygoat]

Can't see it before next season since they went through the trouble of realigning the league and this would nix that.. I'm not even sure how they would do another realignment without moving someone from the eastern time zone to the western conference

I wouldn't be surprised if the league had a contingency plan for realignment and scheduling. The NHL did include both Winnipeg and Atlanta in their schedule drafts back in May 2011. If I had to give my gut feeling I'd say it's 55/45 the team ends up in QC.  Bettman seems hellbent on keeping a team in Glendale for some reason but at some point somethings gotta give.

[MadDog2020]

Can't see it before next season since they went through the trouble of realigning the league and this would nix that.. I'm not even sure how they would do another realignment without moving someone from the eastern time zone to the western conference

I wouldn't be surprised if the league had a contingency plan for realignment and scheduling. The NHL did include both Winnipeg and Atlanta in their schedule drafts back in May 2011. If I had to give my gut feeling I'd say it's 55/45 the team ends up in QC. Bettman seems hellbent on keeping a team in Glendale for some reason but at some point somethings gotta give.

The reason Bettman and the NHL want the team to stay in Glendale is because they don't want a relatively brand new building to be empty. It sets kind of a dangerous precedent for the league to have that kind of a situation, which is why Bettman has bent over backwards to find a local buyer/buyers to keep the team in Arizona. I would imagine if the franchise moves to QC, that maybe they would move Colorado to the Pacific to take the place of the Coyotes, but I have no idea what you do on the East side, seeing as how QC would slot into the Northeast Division with the Northeastern US teams and eastern Canadian teams (along with the Florida teams). They'd have to do some re-shuffling. Edited May 24, 2013 by MadDog2020

[thefiestygoat]

A couple of new developments...

 

- Quebecor has acquired Gestev, a "dynamic sporting and cultural event management company." Essentially to to manage the logistics of the old and new arena on a day to day basis.

 

- As expected, the Colisee will be ready to host NHL hockey if need be by next fall.

 

- Don Maloney signs a long term extension as Coyotes GM. While at first that may appear pro Phoenix news, keep in mind that GM Rick Dudley had signed a 4 year extension with the Thrashers about 3 months prior to the relocation to Winnipeg.

 

Big meeting and press conference on Tuesday?...

AZ Central

Two weeks ago, Weiers told Bettman not to ask for a meeting until the ownership picture was set.

“If he’s doing what I asked him to do, which is to not bring us anything unless he had it 100 percent ready to go, if he thinks they’re ready to go, we’ll see what they’ve got to propose,” Weiers told The Arizona Republic.
----
Sherwood said he believes any potential owners will want to be paid substantially more than $6 million a year, which is the figure that’s been earmarked in numerous proposed city budgets for the arena management fee.

Similarly, in February, just after the last proposed purchase agreement for the Coyotes fell apart, LeBlanc told the Republic that his interest in acquiring the team was contingent upon an arena management deal that was similar to the $15 million-a-year offer the council approved last year.

The $15-million-a-year offer expired when former San Jose Sharks CEO Greg Jamison missed a city-imposed deadline to purchase the Coyotes from the NHL by Jan. 31.

Since then, four of seven members of the Glendale council have been replaced and the new line-up has struggled to balance the city’s budget. Glendale has implemented cutbacks in municipal services, pay freezes and staff reductions in virtually every department to help balance the books.

For now, Glendale finance officials are comfortable with the $6 million-a-year figure, said interim City Manager Dick Bowers.
 

2 things to consider:
1. If the owner wants $13M-$15M to manage the arena and the city can only give $6M, that is a pretty large $7M-$8M gap for a city in financial trouble.

2. Have to imagine if they do somehow find a way to go above $6M, then the Goldwater Institute would fight the deal again.

 

A week old but relevant info...

Fox Sports Arizona
- NHL wants the sale of the team financed in a 3-5 year window. That is why Pastor's offer was rejected because he wanted 15 years to finance it.

- The only serious local group is Renaissance Sports and Entertainment led by George Gosbee and Anthony LeBlanc. Their lawyers have been meeting with the NHL for some time now.

Edited May 25, 2013 by thefiestygoat

[Triumph]

The scuttlebutt among Phoenix papers is that Renaissance Sports and Entertainment will be presented as the buyer on Tuesday.

[Triumph]

If it wasn't a Quebec-based source who is reporting that some Quebecois might buy the team, I would think the stories about Quebec are NHL plants to scare up more money from Glendale.  I think this is the last chance for any buyer to keep the team local, because the NHL owners can't like losing money on this team year after year.  Dreger is reporting that Renaissance are the buyers but there's lots of hurdles, so it's the old story again - unless Glendale bankrupts itself to keep the team in town, they'll leave.