NHL expansion: Bettman reportedly pushing to put team in Seattle

[Triumph]

Lol tough sh!t. These dudes get paid tons of money. Learn some French. Plenty of guys played in Quebec City back in the day for far less money and no one died.

 

Yeah, and the team moved, and one of the greatest NHLers of all time refused to play there.  And that was before NHL free agency was how it is now where guys can walk at 27.

 

Getting paid a lot goes against your point.  If I can get paid $2M a year and live where I want to versus getting paid $3M and live somewhere where I have to learn a different language and my kids might have trouble fitting in, that seems like a pretty easy choice.  I mean, by this logic, way more of the NHL players should be playing in the KHL - they get paid way more, right?

[Daniel]

Yeah, and the team moved, and one of the greatest NHLers of all time refused to play there.  And that was before NHL free agency was how it is now where guys can walk at 27.

 

Getting paid a lot goes against your point.  If I can get paid $2M a year and live where I want to versus getting paid $3M and live somewhere where I have to learn a different language and my kids might have trouble fitting in, that seems like a pretty easy choice.  I mean, by this logic, way more of the NHL players should be playing in the KHL - they get paid way more, right?

 

The team did not move because players did not want to play there, just as it had nothing to do with Winnipeg or Minnesota moving.  If you want to use Lindros to prove some non-existent trend, go ahead.  It is an extremely rare situation where a draft pick that can otherwise jump into the league immediately, refuses to play for a certain team.  I suppose Connor McDavid might try and pull something like that if Phoenix has the number 1 pick in 2015.  Hell, I can see him doing something like that if the Devils had that pick.  It doesn't have much to do though with the wisdom of having a team in a particular market. 

 

And an english speaking North American playing in Quebec is a lot different than playing in the Russia, so far as culture shock is concerned.  Not to mention that the Kovalchuk type KHL deals do not grow on trees, despite the popular perception.  Also, while I don't know how Canadian tax law works, unless an American wants to give up his citizenship, you still have to pay US income tax on your salary, so you wouldn't be making any more for that reason.

[Derek21]

Ugh No more expansion please. We can barely fill current NHL rosters with NHL talent.

 

 

By realigning, they have to expand to 32. You can't have unbalanced conferences. The East is much more competitive with the additions of Columbus and Detroit. Portland and Seattle are possible destinations. Las Vegas is interesting. They already host the NHL Awards and Jerry Bruckheimer has interest in building a new arena. Las Vegas could be a candidate for an outdoor game. The Rangers and Kings played one during the preseason once.

[DJ Eco]

I call bull on this "not wanting to play in Quebec" for the reasons stated. It's a beautiful city, and whether you move to Montreal or to Quebec, you're going to have to learn French. Not knowing French on a day-to-day basis (someone who lives there) is unacceptable in those parts. Their kids too will have to learn French as they learn in both French and English in their schooling system (in Montreal OR Quebec). There's really no difference between the two cities.

 

Honestly, I see Quebec as way more attractive to play in than Edmonton, Winnipeg, or Calgary.

Edited August 1, 2013 by DJ Eco

[thefiestygoat]

And to add to the Seattle speculation, it looks like there are still issues with the Coyotes sale and it could fall through. This never ends, does it? http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2013/07/31/phoenix-coyotes-buyers-may-be-running.html?full=true

This time I do expect the deal to be finalized, but after following this for the last few years, nothing will surprise me. It's amazing that with a sweetheart deal like this from the NHL, that these guys are having some trouble though.

[RowdyFan42]

That would be odd because Montreal is in Quebec and speaks French too, granted they are 100 years old and an original franchise but French is still the primary language. I think even Ottawa (from just quick visits to 4 of the Canadian team websites) has easy access to a French language version of their site. That seems really odd if thats a thing, especially because of Canada having dual national languages.

 

Not to duplicate Triumph's comment, but Montreal is much more Anglo-friendly than QC.  The Habs have their French traditions and there are parts of Montreal that are more "French" than others, but you can still get along pretty well there if you only speak English (unless you're the head coach, the captain, or in the front office).  As for Ottawa, that's more a function of it being the national capital and being on the Ontario-Quebec border.  I don't think anyone really expects you to do anything in French if you're playing for the Sens.

[JPntsca]

Not to duplicate Triumph's comment, but Montreal is much more Anglo-friendly than QC.  The Habs have their French traditions and there are parts of Montreal that are more "French" than others, but you can still get along pretty well there if you only speak English (unless you're the head coach, the captain, or in the front office).  As for Ottawa, that's more a function of it being the national capital and being on the Ontario-Quebec border.  I don't think anyone really expects you to do anything in French if you're playing for the Sens.

 

True, I don't know too much about Quebec and I've only been to Montreal once, I just remember it being very "French". I was just surprised by the comment that the French language barrier would stop expansion and/or slow it down, as there are teams that use French as a language to communicate with fans and conduct business. I get what your saying about Montreal being done more for visibility rather than assembling a French only team, and the Senators being very close to Quebec as well so its just a simple fact on engaging the potential fanbase. I was just saying that I don't see anything that would set a precedent that would make me believe that there is a serious bias against Francophone teams. 

 

and just to further the discussion: Are you saying that Quebec City would be a "French" team first and unfriendly towards anglophones? (Sort of justifying the argument towards lukewarm support for expansion into the market)  or just that their identity is different than Montreal and its not exactly a 1:1 comparison? 

Edited August 1, 2013 by JPntsca

[DJ Eco]

Not to duplicate Triumph's comment, but Montreal is much more Anglo-friendly than QC.  The Habs have their French traditions and there are parts of Montreal that are more "French" than others, but you can still get along pretty well there if you only speak English (unless you're the head coach, the captain, or in the front office).  As for Ottawa, that's more a function of it being the national capital and being on the Ontario-Quebec border.  I don't think anyone really expects you to do anything in French if you're playing for the Sens.

 

Maybe it's more Anglo-friendly to tourists, for sure, but I think in either city, there'd be pressure (by the media, the neighborhood, the organization, etc.) to integrate. Anyone living in either city long-term (1, 2+ years, etc.) would be expected to respect the area's French roots and learn to speak it.

 

I'm just saying, I don't think that'd be such a major hindrance to a player, or at least a big reason players wouldn't want to go there. The province of Quebec in general is a very desirable area to live in.

Edited August 1, 2013 by DJ Eco

[StarDew]

Put 2 more teams in the West and balance out the number of teams in the 2 conferences.

[RowdyFan42]

and just to further the discussion: Are you saying that Quebec City would be a "French" team first and unfriendly towards anglophones? (Sort of justifying the argument towards lukewarm support for expansion into the market)  or just that their identity is different than Montreal and its not exactly a 1:1 comparison?

 

Well, I'm sure the front office would be as accommodating as possible towards everyone -- they wouldn't have much of a choice, really -- but the city itself is very heavily Francophone.  There are some bilingual speakers there but not as many as in Montreal, and most people (over 90%) speak French as their first language with over half speaking French exclusively.  I don't know if the atmosphere would be "unfriendly", per se, but it would probably be how like a lot of European and Russian players feel upon coming to North America for the first time.

 

 

Maybe it's more Anglo-friendly to tourists, for sure, but I think in either city, there'd be pressure (by the media, the neighborhood, the organization, etc.) to integrate. Anyone living in either city long-term (1, 2+ years, etc.) would be expected to respect the area's French roots and learn to speak it.

You're probably right, especially in QC. In Montreal, there'd be some pressure, but I think you'd have an easier time than up north.

 

 

I'm just saying, I don't think that'd be such a major hindrance to a player, or at least a big reason players wouldn't want to go there. The province of Quebec in general is a very desirable area to live in.

Good point. As I said, it doesn't seem to stop players from coming over from Europe, and most players would probably live elsewhere in the offseason.

[RowdyFan42]

I had another thought about Quebec. Not that this would have anything to do with their ability to land or support a team, but the heyday of the Quebec sovereignty movement mostly overlapped the Nordiques' tenure there.  I realize that's largely coincidental -- the Nords left due to an out-of-whack exchange rate and an aging Colisée, not because of anything having to do with the separatists -- but it does make one wonder whether the return of the NHL -- er, LNH -- to la vieille capitale would spark some nationalist fervor.

[iceowl14]

Would make sense having two expansion teams to equate the conferences (Seattle/Las Vegas/Portland/Kansas City all good).

 

BUT

 

What is going to happen in another 5/10 years when the divisions are more than likely going to be re-aligned (again). Will the league decide to expand again? Would this devalue the league in anyway? I may be counting chickens before they hatch, but constant realignment and expansion is just going to create an overcrowded league/tiered system (as per European soccer) which IMO would not be the best way for NHL to go.

[thefiestygoat]

I can't see the NHL going past 32 teams, even in the future. The NFL is at 32 teams and they are by far the most popular league in America. If the NHL adds two teams out West then they really don't have to worry about realignment ever, unless they want to blow up the new system they just created down the line. Things could get tricky with a franchise in Quebec or Greater Toronto but I don't think it would be that troublesome to make it work in the new alignment.

[iceowl14]

I can't see the NHL going past 32 teams, even in the future. The NFL is at 32 teams and they are by far the most popular league in America. If the NHL adds two teams out West then they really don't have to worry about realignment ever, unless they want to blow up the new system they just created down the line. Things could get tricky with a franchise in Quebec or Greater Toronto but I don't think it would be that troublesome to make it work in the new alignment.

Would only take some dodgy franchise move to do this though, e.g. a current east team moves to the west. The NHL could have kept the old format with a reshuffle of two teams but decided to change it loads more for some reason; what's to stop this from happening again? I hope it doesn't expand too much more than what it is at the moment, I feel the exclusivity would be lost slightly.

[thefiestygoat]

Would only take some dodgy franchise move to do this though, e.g. a current east team moves to the west. The NHL could have kept the old format with a reshuffle of two teams but decided to change it loads more for some reason; what's to stop this from happening again? I hope it doesn't expand too much more than what it is at the moment, I feel the exclusivity would be lost slightly.

At least at this moment in time, it seems like all the franchises, outside of Phoenix, seem to be fairly stable. Could be a problem in the future but I'd be surprised to see a relocation outside of the Coyotes happen within the next decade. Plus, I'm sure the NHL would try to keep relocations as close as possible geographically, sort of how the Coyotes almost went to Seattle. Just speculating here but say expansion happened and the Coyotes had to move, perhaps Las Vegas would be an option since they'll have the new arena and it wouldn't affect the divisions at all.

[iceowl14]

At least at this moment in time, it seems like all the franchises, outside of Phoenix, seem to be fairly stable. Could be a problem in the future but I'd be surprised to see a relocation outside of the Coyotes happen within the next decade. Plus, I'm sure the NHL would try to keep relocations as close as possible geographically, sort of how the Coyotes almost went to Seattle. Just speculating here but say expansion happened and the Coyotes had to move, perhaps Las Vegas would be an option since they'll have the new arena and it wouldn't affect the divisions at all.

If it doesn't affect the divisions, or if there is an easy way of re-configuring the divisions involving two teams or so, then relocation is all good. Again with expansion, if the league plans on keeping the 4 divisions for the time being then fair play, make it an even number for both conferences to maintain equality. My only hope is it doesn't exceed more than 32. Don't get me wrong, I love the English tiered system for soccer because of the excitement in April (Sheffield Wednesday usually in the mix of it!) but NHL should keep the league status by keeping an eye on the amount of teams playing, could easily get carries away with adding teams.

[thefiestygoat]

I didn't think this was worth a new thread so I figured I'd put it here. From the Seattle Times:

 

And while the NHL has yet to announce expansion plans, Seattle remains at the forefront of the league’s thoughts as the time to add new franchises draws closer.

 

“When that happens, I think Seattle will certainly be an intriguing marketplace from the league’s perspective,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly says. “I think we have a belief in the Pacific Northwest. It being good hockey territory. I think, obviously, the Canucks have done a fantastic job — in Vancouver, but also throughout British Columbia and the Pacific region — at driving interest in the sport.

 

“So, we think the possibility is there. It’s kind of more obvious than some of the other areas. It doesn’t mean we’ve done our due diligence. We’d need to satisfy ourselves on the marketplace, but just the objective factors around the marketplace suggest Seattle would be a good hockey market.”

--------

Sources say there have been negotiations between the league and potential ownership groups in Seattle about the cost of expansion fees. To the point where the NHL and local officials could be prepared to make some type of announcement shortly after the Olympic Games in Sochi conclude — at a time the NHL hopes nationwide interest in its sport will be at a high point.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

It would be brilliant to have a team in Seattle.

[devlman]

Seatte would support a hockey team really well. Once they finalize an arena, it would be a no-brainer to have that city at the top of the expansion/relocaction list.

[Mike Brown]

I definitely think Seattle would be a great hockey market.  I also think they should do another Ontario team.  Another Toronto team would work.

[dmann422]

Expansion is definitely coming, it's just a matter of where when and how. Seattle seems obvious but I think Bettman would feel it ideal to start a team with a new arena. If that's the case it means Seattle is still 3 years away at least. Another Toronto team will obviously thrive in that market but I really doubt the leafs allow it, and Bettman has shown that he wants to grow the game in the us- another team in Toronto does nothing for the overall league.

My question is if say Seattle is settled and ready for 2016 or 2017, does the league push to get a second team in at the same time, or are they ok doing Seattle sooner and a second team say 5 or 6 years down the line.

[thefiestygoat]

Expansion is definitely coming, it's just a matter of where when and how. Seattle seems obvious but I think Bettman would feel it ideal to start a team with a new arena. If that's the case it means Seattle is still 3 years away at least. Another Toronto team will obviously thrive in that market but I really doubt the leafs allow it, and Bettman has shown that he wants to grow the game in the us- another team in Toronto does nothing for the overall league.

My question is if say Seattle is settled and ready for 2016 or 2017, does the league push to get a second team in at the same time, or are they ok doing Seattle sooner and a second team say 5 or 6 years down the line.

I can't find the link but I remember reading on TSN a few months back that McKenzie said the NHL would be open to having team #31 enter the league a year or two before team #32 if need be.

[MadDog2020]

I think the two expansion cities in the end will be Seattle and Quebec City. They didn't build that new arena in QC for an AHL team, and that dude has a sh!t-ton of money.

[ZeroGravityFat]

pretty obvious to me that it will be Seattle and las vegas

[CarpathianForest]

Seattle Grunge and Las Vegas Pawnbrokers! YEAH!!!