Devils' Bryce Salvador responds to his critics

[Devilsfan118]

Chere article, keep in mind that he's fishing for page clicks.  Still some interesting quotes nonetheless. Link.
 
Including the following from PDB..
 

“I think Sal has given us everything he can,” coach Pete DeBoer told NJ Advance Media on Wednesday. “This guy missed most of last year (with injuries). The one thing when he suits up is you know that his heart is in the right place and he’s going to give you his best effort.

 

“We don’t have a lot here of what he brings to the table as a defenseman. We need that in the lineup.”

 

"It’s a tough job. He doesn’t have a lot of insulation there doing what he does,” DeBoer said. “But he’s a great leader and no one prepares more and no one cares more. When you watch Sal you have to look at the intangibles he brings. I think that is what people have to recognize.”

 
I could post a long-winded response to all this but I feel like this post on reddit really sums it up really well.  Maybe one of you here posted it:
 

Oh save it.

 

Bryce Salvador is awful at hockey. I don't care about his intangibles. I don't care that he puts his sweater on like a "pro" and smacks his teammates ass better than anyone. I care about his performance. Cut the intangibles bullsh!t please. Everyone.
 
You don't need a defenseman like Sal. What you need is a defenseman that can play hockey well. That can contribute positively to the score far more than he hurts it negatively. Or even a little more. Or even breaking even. You don't need a guy like Sal that contributes nothing offensively and coughs up goals against every chance he gets. Seriously Pete cut the bullsh!t.
 
Sal is awful. He's really really useless and this infatuation with physicality is part of the reason we've lagged behind. Look at the albatross that was Volchenkov and the pain in the ass that is Sal. Look at the bullsh!t CamJam call up that sparked us and then was useless because, gasp him being bad at hockey caught up to him. Look at how Brunner, Loktionov, Josefson were told that they must play physical and look to STEPHEN MOTHERfvckING GIONTA as their example to look up to.
 
fvck your army of Jay Pandolfos and Bryce Salvadors. I'm tired of this sh!t. Play the best players. If they happen to have intangibles, like Adam Henrique, fvcking bonus. If they don't? Who the fvck actually cares. They don't award a Lord David Eckstein Cup for the scrappiest group of losers to smack themselves along the boards like idiots. They don't award a trophy for throwing your worst player in a Faceoff circle in your defensive zone against Giroux, losing, and giving up a goal. You get losses more often than not when you play inferior players. I am actually sick of this sh!t.
Lou, I love you and am thankful for the Cups. This sh!t has to stop. I know you will never disclose it but I bet part of the reason Stevens, Oates, Robinson left was because of a disconnect with this sh!t coach. You know, the fact that he doesn't play his best players. The fact that he plays favorites. The fact that he makes winning a hockey game harder than it should be for the Devils.
 
Which brings me back to Sal. A career worthy of being called a captain and a warrior. A man who has taken countless pucks in places men shouldn't be taking pucks. I love what you have done Sal. But you are now bad at hockey. Father Time wins. It's not your fault that you're out there with Zidlicky and Gionta on a PK, that's on the coach. It's not your fault that there have been games where you have more minutes played than Greene after two periods. That's on the coach. I get it. But you're still bad. And I don't want to hear about the intangibles you bring I want you to not be on the ice for 6 PP goals in 8 chances. I want you to not be a -3 taking time away from Larsson or Gelinas or anyone who is better than you at helpings us win hockey games.
 
I don't care that you're our captain. I respect that you've earned the respect of your teammates but it's not a golden ticket and this isn't willy fvcking wonkas chocolate factory. You're not an auto starter. Stop thinking you are. I don't care about your preparation or you being a nice guy. I don't. fvcking. Care. I want to win. It's not translating to you being good and helping us win. So please go away.
 
I know our failures don't solely fall on your shoulders but you are preventing others who are better from playing. For asinine reasons. This needs to stop. Gionta falls into the same category.
 
I'm so tired of being the gritty team with no talent. Please just let our talent play. fvck intangibles.

 

 

Edit:  I suck at formatting.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Devilsfan118

[Jerzey]

Sal's quotes from the article:

 

But many do not. Salvador admits he is not playing as well as he’d like, but he seems surprised at the amount of blame he has endured.

 

“I think where my game is at is not where I want it to be at,” Salvador admitted. “Each game I’m getting to where I want to be. You’re never happy with your game. You never want to get complacent. You always want to improve on it. From where it’s at now, I know I can still improve on it.”

 

And the criticism?

 

“I don’t really get too caught up in social media and stuff like that,” Salvador said. “If that is the case that I’m taking the blame and stuff like that, I have no concerns or issues about taking it. We’ve missed the playoffs the last two years and everyone wants to make sure we’re in, so there is going to be frustration. I’d rather take the blame that comes with being a leader and the captain."

 

Does he deserve it?

 

“Whether it is merited or not, I don’t look at it that way. I look at it from where the team is at and how it’s doing,” Salvador said. “The blame always starts with the leaders. You want to take that blame. Whether it’s warranted or not, I try to keep things in perspective and remain pretty level-headed.

“We can easily get on another winning streak. As soon as you win, everything is better.”

 

Salvador said he does not fear for his job.

 

“Not really. I think that’s why we play. I personally like the responsibility and to be put in those situations. I embrace it,” he said.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Jerzey Devil

[Satans Hockey]

I care a lot about winning too, doesn't mean I should be on the ice playing though.

Bryce is awful and is arguably our worst captain that this team has ever had.

[MadDog2020]

That Reddit post was brilliant.

[Devilsfan118]

Bryce is awful and is arguably our worst captain that this team has ever had.

 

Without question, at least in recent memory.  I'm sure a stat guy will come in here and remind me otherwise though.

[SterioDesign]

the whole "giving everything you have and put all your heart in it" is really not enough... Put me in Devils gear and send me in an NHL game you can be sure i'll do my 100% best. That won't be enough lol

I care a lot about winning too, doesn't mean I should be on the ice playing though.

Bryce is awful and is arguably our worst captain that this team has ever had.

 

I'd argue it's the worst captain i've ever seen in the entire NHL to be honest. i honestly can't think of a worst

[BostonNala370]

Is Gionta up next with DeBoer defending him?

Followed by DeBoer with Lou defending him?

Edited October 23, 2014 by BostonNala370

[devilsrule33]

Got to give Chere credit for asking the questions. I respect Deboer and Salvador's responses as well. It's 7 games into the season. As Tri said, give the staff time to see how poor Salvador really is. Eventually, they won't be talking intangibles, but only performance. The only issue is it might take the Devils being quite bad to see that.

 

I don't agree completely with the post that Salvador is blocking anyone better. In the first 6 games, Gelinas was worse defensively. At this point, it is just about further reducing his role than outright scratching him. 

 

Merrill, Greene, and Severson's minutes need to go up. 

Bryce is awful and is arguably our worst captain that this team has ever had.

 

In terms of performance on the ice, absolutely. Everything else is just a bunch of guessing. The only bad thing about him being the C was him being unscratchable for the last few years.

 

By the way, if anyone was not a fan of advanced stats, but hate Salvador...this should win you over. Cut out the cliche answers and the thoughts of "the type of defenseman we need" or "we don't have many players that bring what he brings" and simply look at the raw numbers. It's all there. 

 

I said I was pissed that Lou would be the intermediary between Sunny and Pete. This is one reason why.

Edited October 23, 2014 by devilsrule33

[Satans Hockey]

In terms of performance on the ice, absolutely. Everything else is just a bunch of guessing. The only bad thing about him being the C was him being unscratchable for the last few years.

Ya i was just going based on performance on the ice, I haven't seen some of the earlier captains live but just looking at the stats he looks like the worst.

[Devil Dan 56]

The part I find most interesting in this is that Pete wasn't really defending Sal's actual play. Yeah, he threw in the expected "brings to the table" and "intangibles", but he avoided talking about what he is actually doing on the ice. 

 

He says Sal was "injured last year", "heart is in the right place", "best effort", but at no point does he actually say Salvador is playing well. I think that shows that his performance has not gone unnoticed. 

[Daniel]

Got to give Chere credit for asking the questions. I respect Deboer and Salvador's responses as well. It's 7 games into the season. As Tri said, give the staff time to see how poor Salvador really is. Eventually, they won't be talking intangibles, but only performance. The only issue is it might take the Devils being quite bad to see that.

I don't agree completely with the post that Salvador is blocking anyone better. In the first 6 games, Gelinas was worse defensively. At this point, it is just about further reducing his role than outright scratching him.

Merrill, Greene, and Severson's minutes need to go up.

In terms of performance on the ice, absolutely. Everything else is just a bunch of guessing. The only bad thing about him being the C was him being unscratchable for the last few years.

By the way, if anyone was not a fan of advanced stats, but hate Salvador...this should win you over. Cut out the cliche answers and the thoughts of "the type of defenseman we need" or "we don't have many players that bring what he brings" and simply look at the raw numbers. It's all there.

I said I was pissed that Lou would be the intermediary between Sunny and Pete. This is one reason why.

Part of it is confirmation bias, in that if you hate a player already, you'll point to the advanced stats to prove your point, while you'll say they don't matter for a player you like.

I mentioned it in an earlier post, but for a while I was of the view that Salvador was a serviceable if below average defenseman that was good for the penalty kill. When I saw the possession numbers -- although evidently somewhat misleading -- I realized that it was so out of whack compared to everyone else on the team, that he must be pretty bad.

I take a skeptical view of them when it comes to someone like Kovalchuk, where you can watch him play and see how he changes the dynamics of what's taking place even if it might be difficult to quantify. This is different from qualities that have little or nothing to do with talent, such as leadership, grit or feistiness. I would say only the ability to agitate is an intangible that has a real if perhaps difficult to quantify value of its own. You can see what a Sean Avery could do in certain situations.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Derlique]

If Pete hasn't noticed it now, he will soon. His job is (probably) on the line this year and will need to make adjustments

[Triumph]

Part of it is confirmation bias, in that if you hate a player already, you'll point to the advanced stats to prove your point, while you'll say they don't matter for a player you like.

I mentioned it in an earlier post, but for a while I was of the view that Salvador was a serviceable if below average defenseman that was good for the penalty kill. When I saw the possession numbers -- although evidently somewhat misleading -- I realized that it was so out of whack compared to everyone else on the team, that he must be pretty bad.

I take a skeptical view of them when it comes to someone like Kovalchuk, where you can watch him play and see how he changes the dynamics of what's taking place even if it might be difficult to quantify. This is different from qualities that have little or nothing to do with talent, such as leadership, grit or feistiness. I would say only the ability to agitate is an intangible that has a real if perhaps difficult to quantify value of its own. You can see what a Sean Avery could do in certain situations.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What one misses with Kovalchuk is what's going on when the other team has the puck.

 

Sunny - who cares.  I mean, do you think Edmonton's making moves based on what Ty.ler Dell.ow is doing up there?  No, because they scratched Jeff Petry the other night.  How about Toronto, where Dubas and stat guys were hired?  Nope - Jake Gardiner a scratch.  Chicago?  We can go on and on like this.  I don't think stat guys should have much to do with the coach - maybe in an overarching, overall strategy way, but in the day to day operation of the team, nope.  That's not how the stats work - they only work on a large sample.

[mfitz804]

Uhh, I am not upset at him because he's the captain and the team hasn't done well. I'm more upset with his horrible play and the fact that he even has the C to begin with. 

[NJDevs4978]

He's not the worst captain in Devils history, just the worst player wearing the C. But strictly 'as a captain' Sal didn't bail on the team during the stretch run and playoffs the way Jamie did.

The part I find most interesting in this is that Pete wasn't really defending Sal's actual play. Yeah, he threw in the expected "brings to the table" and "intangibles", but he avoided talking about what he is actually doing on the ice.

He says Sal was "injured last year", "heart is in the right place", "best effort", but at no point does he actually say Salvador is playing well. I think that shows that his performance has not gone unnoticed.

This is a good point.

And Sal handled it the right way, seldom anything good comes with getting defensive about criticism.

[SterioDesign]

What i hate the most is that not only he's not even that good defensively anymore and he's certainly not bringing anything more. If he gets the puck he'll try  to get to the red line and dump it, get to his blueline and slap the puck in an angle to the boards at the red line to clear it without icing it, of if he's deep in his zone he'll shot it to the glass. That's it. He's never helping getting a play ready, he'll never make a great pass to set up a guy for a breakaway or a good breakout. so if he's playing near 20 min.... thats potentially 20 minutes that we couldnt get a good offense starting from the back end. And when he's at the point well that's where pucks and plays goes to die.

 

Obviously now he's playing with Zid and he can do that but the puck still I'd rather have a better 2 way dmen who has a role of being more defensive minded but "could" do something offensively if he has to. than a guy who simply can't

[devilsrule33]

He's not the worst captain in Devils history, just the worst player wearing the C. But strictly 'as a captain' Sal didn't bail on the team during the stretch run and playoffs the way Jamie did.

This is a good point.

And Sal handled it the right way, seldom anything good comes with getting defensive about criticism.

 

Don't want delve too much into the past, but Langenbrunner was having one of the best seasons of his career (almost a point a game player after 60 games, had just been the captain of team USA silver medal team at the Olympics) and was told to sit and watched the coach take his captaincy and put it on another player.  Did he handle the situation correctly? Probably not, but it was a pretty messed up situation. The fact that he had such respect amongst the locker room, may have had some influence on the team's demise...although Lemaire and the staff seemed to be pissing off many of the veterans.

 

Now if Salvador was told he was being scratched, not sure it be such a huge deal since play would be the reason. If they gave away his 'C', who knows how he'd react. Don't think anyone would really care.

[HOLLYWOOD]

 

“I don’t really get too caught up in social media and stuff like that,” Salvador said. “If that is the case that I’m taking the blame and stuff like that, I have no concerns or issues about taking it. We’ve missed the playoffs the last two years and everyone wants to make sure we’re in, so there is going to be frustration. I’d rather take the blame that comes with being a leader and the captain."

This will be a fiery thread... and fur sure, I'm not holding back

 

That's okay Sal and most informed fans/supporters already know LL policies with social media.  The value... Byrce makes $3.2 million/yr, going to be 39 in February, and takes away from long term investment in younger prospects, acquisitions, and performers. I have watched 4 games(1 pre & 3 reg season) of the Edmonton Oilers and Fayne is the one bright spot on a team of undisciplined, mismanaged, & poorly coached of an organization. I truly think Fayne was a loss to the fans and Devils organization.

 

Saying this, I have played the defensive position in hockey all my entire life and I can say, you are done on the ice Salvador. But because of the coaching and management poor decisions, you are still hanging around. The only way the Fans and people have a say now, is with their wallets. If season ticket holders and any Devils ticket purchasing fan start writing management and threatening to no longer fund/support the current policies, then change will happen, unfortunately, it has already proven too late. But because of for some reason LL investing longer contracts with older players is just mind boggling and really handcuffs future player acquisitions, and as you can see, has backfired once again. At Salvador's very best time in the NHL and sport of hockey, he was only an average defenceman.

 

I look at the value and Salvador's is not only zero, but a negative to the team/fans because, he a 35+ player, a hindrance to the back end, cap hit cost the organization whether he stays or demoted to Albany. As you can see it kept the organization from retaining player(s) or seeking needed talent with missed opportunities, like this summer's Radim Vrbata.

 

There's more, but no sense going any further... nothing will change, it's too late. The fans are demoralized and I bet some of the players are too.

Edited October 23, 2014 by HOLLYWOOD

[mrthemike]

I'm a fan of the reddit response.

[NJDevs4978]

Fayne's on the third pairing. In Edmonton. I liked the guy when he was here but let's not act like he was irreplaceable.

[Triumph]

Don't want delve too much into the past, but Langenbrunner was having one of the best seasons of his career (almost a point a game player after 60 games, had just been the captain of team USA silver medal team at the Olympics) and was told to sit and watched the coach take his captaincy and put it on another player.  Did he handle the situation correctly? Probably not, but it was a pretty messed up situation. The fact that he had such respect amongst the locker room, may have had some influence on the team's demise...although Lemaire and the staff seemed to be pissing off many of the veterans.

 

Now if Salvador was told he was being scratched, not sure it be such a huge deal since play would be the reason. If they gave away his 'C', who knows how he'd react. Don't think anyone would really care.

 

I do believe this came after Langenbrunner was upset at not being used in OT in a game - I don't think we'll ever really know what happened there.  

 

Here was that game:  http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20092010/TH021134.HTM

[HOLLYWOOD]

Fayne's on the third pairing. In Edmonton. I liked the guy when he was here but let's not act like he was irreplaceable.

Who's acting like Fayne is "not replaceable"  I stated, I have watched him in 4 games this year and he's outperformed all my expectations.

 

BTW, Fayne is First Line pairing for the Oilers, not 3rd line... He's also wearing an A now.

[Devil Dan 56]

Don't want delve too much into the past, but Langenbrunner was having one of the best seasons of his career (almost a point a game player after 60 games, had just been the captain of team USA silver medal team at the Olympics) and was told to sit and watched the coach take his captaincy and put it on another player.  Did he handle the situation correctly? Probably not, but it was a pretty messed up situation. The fact that he had such respect amongst the locker room, may have had some influence on the team's demise...although Lemaire and the staff seemed to be pissing off many of the veterans.

 

Now if Salvador was told he was being scratched, not sure it be such a huge deal since play would be the reason. If they gave away his 'C', who knows how he'd react. Don't think anyone would really care.

 

The players might care. Supposedly he's very well liked by the players and coaches. At this point, I think it's best to ride out the season with him as captain, and let him retire. Then name Greene or Zajac captain and move on without the public shaming.

[devilsrule33]

The players might care. Supposedly he's very well liked by the players and coaches. At this point, I think it's best to ride out the season with him as captain, and let him retire. Then name Greene or Zajac captain and move on without the public shaming.

 

Sorry. Meant from the fans point of view. It's not something that is happening anyway, but yes, the players might not like it.

[Devil Dan 56]

This will be a fiery thread... and fur sure, I'm not holding back

 

That's okay Sal and most informed fans/supporters already know LL policies with social media.  The value... Byrce makes $3.2 million/yr, going to be 39 in February, and takes away from long term investment in younger prospects, acquisitions, and performers. I have watched 4 games(1 pre & 3 reg season) of the Edmonton Oilers and Fayne is the one bright spot on a team of undisciplined, mismanaged, & poorly coached of an organization. I truly think Fayne was a loss to the fans and Devils organization.

 

Saying this, I have played the defensive position in hockey all my entire life and I can say, you are done on the ice Salvador. But because of the coaching and management poor decisions, you are still hanging around. The only way the Fans and people have a say now, is with their wallets. If season ticket holders and any Devils ticket purchasing fan start writing management and threatening to no longer fund/support the current policies, then change will happen, unfortunately, it has already proven too late. But because of for some reason LL investing longer contracts with older players is just mind boggling and really handcuffs future player acquisitions, and as you can see, has backfired once again. At Salvador's very best time in the NHL and sport of hockey, he was only an average defenceman.

 

I look at the value and Salvador's is not only zero, but a negative to the team/fans because, he a 35+ player, a hindrance to the back end, cap hit cost the organization whether he stays or demoted to Albany. As you can see it kept the organization from retaining player(s) or seeking needed talent with missed opportunities, like this summer's Radim Vrbata.

 

There's more, but no sense going any further... nothing will change, it's too late. The fans are demoralized and I bet some of the players are too.

 

When did Salvador's contract keep the organization from retaining players, or cost us Radim Vrbata? 

 

Seriously? Band together and write letters and boycott because we are all demoralized because Bryce Salvador is playing?