Daniel Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 As noted in the Alex Semin thread, I got a bit bored on the train, and my mind wandered thinking about a deal for Rick Nash. I'll do my best to avoid George Constanza-esque proposals to get Griffey and Bonds without having to give up all that much. Before I begin though, my dream scenario is that the Rangers make a deal for Nash that includes one of their starting defenseman, preferably McDonough. Can you imagine them trying to last the whole season with three NHL caliber defensemen (they could get as high as five if Erixson and Wade Redden get called up). Anyway, the deal I was thinking of was Greene/Tallinder, Josefson, this year's second and a first in either 2013-14 or 2014-15. One of Greene and Tallinder will likely be out the door anyway, so the two things I would lament on that front would be the fact that Lou gave Salvador that contract making one of them expendable and not knowing what else was out there (say trading one of them and Urbom/Gelinas for Sam Gagne). So next year, the lineup looks like: Kovy Henrique Nash Elias Zajac Zubrus Sykora Carter Clarkson Gionta Bernier Harrold/Jannsen/Barch [Can Bernier, Barch, Gionta play center] Fayne Tallinder/Greene Zidlicky Larsson Volchenkhov Salvador I'm not that worried about Nash's contract. We were prepared to give much more to Parise, and you take off the money that we're not paying to one of the defenseman that's being traded and the pay raise that Josefson would be getting next year. The other requirement would be to lock up Zajac long term or trade him in a deal that includes a pretty good center. I can't recall all of the proposed deals from other teams that have been rumored, but I think this is better than one of the rumored Ranger packages, which was McIllrath/Erixon, Dubinsky, JT Miller and a first. In my deal, they get two good NHL ready players -- one who has a lot potential in Josefson -- and an extra draft pick. The Ranger deal gets them an inconsistent but admittedly quality second/third line center who has more or less peaked (and rumored to have a drug problem), two prospects (I'm not that high on McIlrath who is injured anyway, Erixson will likely be good, JT Miller I know nothing about) and what Columbus will have to assume is a low first rounder. If necessary, the Devils could add one of Gelinas/Urbom/Tedenby. All opinions welcome, just don't be a jerk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 This post is so inane I had to check twice to make sure I wasn't the author. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Dont think we have the pieces. That's a non-starter there. The deal you use for comparison from the Rags has been turned down numerous times. There's also been rumors of the choice of McDonagh/Del Zotto, Erixon, and a 1st round pick. And possibly Stepan as well. The Rags will be giving up a lot to get a deal done. I dont think we're in the same position as the Rags in that respect. They have more tradeable pieces that would interest the BJ's than we do in terms of young "in the league now" talent. Same with the Red Wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Dont think we have the pieces. That's a non-starter there. The deal you use for comparison from the Rags has been turned down numerous times. There's also been rumors of the choice of McDonagh/Del Zotto, Erixon, and a 1st round pick. And possibly Stepan as well. The Rags will be giving up a lot to get a deal done. I dont think we're in the same position as the Rags in that respect. They have more tradeable pieces that would interest the BJ's than we do in terms of young "in the league now" talent. Same with the Red Wings. I realize that the previous rumored package was turned down. However, the Rangers don't seem to have budged, and apparently have refused to offer up Stepan. You're right though, if McDonough or Del Zotto are going to Columbus that is better than what we could possibly offer. As I said though, I would be thrilled if the Rags resorted to that. In fact, I could see them missing the playoffs if they did that. Edited July 10, 2012 by Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Does Nash have an NMC or NTC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Anyway, the deal I was thinking of was Greene/Tallinder, Josefson, this year's second and a first in either 2013-14 or 2014-15. One of Greene and Tallinder will likely be out the door anyway, so the two things I would lament on that front would be the fact that Lou gave Salvador that contract making one of them expendable and not knowing what else was out there (say trading one of them and Urbom/Gelinas for Sam Gagne). I think even if the Jackets weren't rumored to be asking a huge price for Nash, they still wouldn't do this trade. If we were a sucky team then maybe they take: a first, Josefson and Larsson/Henrique. Considering the Jackets requested Skinner from Carolina, my guess is they'd be asking for Henrique from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Start with Henrique and Columbus won't hang up the phone. But the OP's original proposal, while not the usual "quantity for quality" fleece kind of trade that most armchair GMs suggest, ain't gonna get it done...Columbus is going to want at least one young quality player who can begin to make up for the loss of Nash's scoring. Henrique fits that bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Does Nash have an NMC or NTC? He has an NMC through 2014-15 and a no trade clause after that. There's some mystery list of teams he's willing to go to. Don't think we're on it, but probably because no one asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I think even if the Jackets weren't rumored to be asking a huge price for Nash, they still wouldn't do this trade. If we were a sucky team then maybe they take: a first, Josefson and Larsson/Henrique. Considering the Jackets requested Skinner from Carolina, my guess is they'd be asking for Henrique from us. The operative part of your statement is that Carolina told Columbus to shove it when they asked for Skinner. The Rangers did the same thing when Columbus asked for Kreider. Ditto with the Flyers when Courturier's name came up. Columbus is in a bind because Nash has more or less forced their hand. No one seems to be willing to offer what you would otherwise expect. That's why I don't think what I've suggested is so outlandish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMazz Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Why would the Devils trade anyone when they could just sign Semin if they choose to. Edited July 10, 2012 by TheMazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The operative part of your statement is that Carolina told Columbus to shove it when they asked for Skinner. The Rangers did the same thing when Columbus asked for Kreider. Ditto with the Flyers when Courturier's name came up. Columbus is in a bind because Nash has more or less forced their hand. No one seems to be willing to offer what you would otherwise expect. That's why I don't think what I've suggested is so outlandish. In other words, you believe the price has dropped for Nash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Why would the Devils trade anyone when they could just sign Semin if they choose to. No one is so sure Semin wants to come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Does Nash have an NMC or NTC? Big time. His confirmed "list" as to teams he's open to is hard to guess, but the Rags and Detroit are assuredly on it. Edited July 10, 2012 by ghdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Why would the Devils trade anyone when they could just sign Semin if they choose to. If what you meant is "Why would the Devils trade anyone when they could just sign Semin as a free agent, then I guess it just depends on how much more upside you believe Nash has than Semin and/or if you need to clear cap space to bring the player in or not (which the Devils would not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoArmySports Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 What's the difference between a NMC and NTC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanity_gallops Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Aside from the other comments and remarks, one concern is throwing in a first-rounder for Nash. That guarantees the Devils have to forfeit their first round pick this upcoming season (in your scenario), regardless of how well or poorly they do. I just don't see Lou putting himself in that position. I also agree with previous posters' remarks that the Devils just don't have enough to offer to entice Nash to come and play in New Jersey. Henrique and Kovalchuk are the strongest selling points on offense, and the former would have to be included for the Blue Jackets to even approach Nash about it. If Lou really wanted to try and bring in Nash, I would guess it'd be something more in the range of Henrique, Greene, Reid Boucher, Eric Gelinas, 1st rounder... and even that probably isn't as enticing as what some other teams can offer. Think of it this way: if Parise was still on the Devils and locked into a monster deal like Nash, and demanded a trade, and the return offer from a team like Columbus was Derick Brassard, Nikita Nikitin, a 1st and a 2nd... would you be happy? Because that's not too far off from an offer of Greene, Josefson, 1st & 2nd. Personally, I'd be scoffing at the mere idea of trading Parise for that little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 In other words, you believe the price has dropped for Nash? Yes I do, or at least in terms of what other teams are willing to offer. Columbus might think he's more valuable, but at some point they'll be forced to accept the best of what's out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMazz Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) No one is so sure Semin wants to come here. The same can be said about Nash. Though this thread is purely a hypothetical you can color me surprised if we are on the shortlist for Rick Nash. Edited July 10, 2012 by TheMazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Yes I do, or at least in terms of what other teams are willing to offer. Columbus might think he's more valuable, but at some point they'll be forced to accept the best of what's out there. I honestly believe that Columbus is ready to stick with Nash if they don't get what they want. That's probably part of the reason they put the price so high in the first place. Think of it this way: if Parise was still on the Devils and locked into a monster deal like Nash, and demanded a trade, and the return offer from a team like Columbus was Derick Brassard, Nikita Nikitin, a 1st and a 2nd... would you be happy? Because that's not too far off from an offer of Greene, Josefson, 1st & 2nd. Personally, I'd be scoffing at the mere idea of trading Parise for that little. I think this articulates best why Daniel's proposal wouldn't work. Edited July 10, 2012 by ben00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Aside from the other comments and remarks, one concern is throwing in a first-rounder for Nash. That guarantees the Devils have to forfeit their first round pick this upcoming season (in your scenario), regardless of how well or poorly they do. I just don't see Lou putting himself in that position. I also agree with previous posters' remarks that the Devils just don't have enough to offer to entice Nash to come and play in New Jersey. Henrique and Kovalchuk are the strongest selling points on offense, and the former would have to be included for the Blue Jackets to even approach Nash about it. If Lou really wanted to try and bring in Nash, I would guess it'd be something more in the range of Henrique, Greene, Reid Boucher, Eric Gelinas, 1st rounder... and even that probably isn't as enticing as what some other teams can offer. Think of it this way: if Parise was still on the Devils and locked into a monster deal like Nash, and demanded a trade, and the return offer from a team like Columbus was Derick Brassard, Nikita Nikitin, a 1st and a 2nd... would you be happy? Because that's not too far off from an offer of Greene, Josefson, 1st & 2nd. Personally, I'd be scoffing at the mere idea of trading Parise for that little. What I was thinking of so far as the options on the first rounder was concerned was that we don't lose out on the possibility of drafting Jones or MacKinnon if the things fall apart this year. If all goes well, we forfeit this year's pick, and trade next year's or the following year's. With your Parise scenario, I'd certainly be pissed off about it, but I think Columbus fans are going to be pissed about the Nash trade no matter what. Not perfectly analogous, but the deal Atlanta got for Kovalchuk was a lot worse, to the point of more or less giving him up for nothing. That's the problem when someone demands a trade, and, by the way, gives you a short list of teams he's willing to go to. If we were hearing that there was a bidding war between Carolina and the Rangers where Carolina was one-upping the Rangers offer of Kreider with Skinner, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, everyone seems to be in a race to give Columbus the biggest low ball offer possible. I suppose that's what happens when you have a moron for a GM in Howson. The same can be said about Nash. Though this thread is purely a hypothetical you can color me surprised if we are on the shortlist for Rick Nash. You'd be surprised. I have no idea what Nash is looking for in a destination, but NJ is actually a pretty desirable destination. The only knock is the lack of fan support. Some players care more about it than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 What's the difference between a NMC and NTC? A no-trade clause requires a player's consent before a trade involving that player is made. If a player has a no-movement clause, the player cannot be traded, waived, or sent down to the minors without that player's approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanity_gallops Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 What I was thinking of so far as the options on the first rounder was concerned was that we don't lose out on the possibility of drafting Jones or MacKinnon if the things fall apart this year. If all goes well, we forfeit this year's pick, and trade next year's or the following year's. With your Parise scenario, I'd certainly be pissed off about it, but I think Columbus fans are going to be pissed about the Nash trade no matter what. Not perfectly analogous, but the deal Atlanta got for Kovalchuk was a lot worse, to the point of more or less giving him up for nothing. That's the problem when someone demands a trade, and, by the way, gives you a short list of teams he's willing to go to. If we were hearing that there was a bidding war between Carolina and the Rangers where Carolina was one-upping the Rangers offer of Kreider with Skinner, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, everyone seems to be in a race to give Columbus the biggest low ball offer possible. I suppose that's what happens when you have a moron for a GM in Howson. This is actually the wild card in all of this. Howson has done some ridiculous things as a GM - and that's saying a lot considering he's in the wake of Doug MacLean, who was brutal. Howson just might want to rid himself of the whole thing and take a lowball offer... but he's also got to realize (well, at least he SHOULD realize) that doing so will certainly cost him his job. Don Waddell got hosed in the trades he orchestrated and it eventually caught up to him, even if the writing had been on the wall for some time. Ditto for Ferguson Jr. in Toronto. Essentially, Howson has to get at least a decent return for Nash. Greene & Josefson + is not a decent return considering they're the only "surefire" pieces of the puzzle... and even Josefson is still something of an unknown. If the Rangers even offered Dubinsky & Erixon +, that's a better deal for Columbus because of Dubinsky's style of play. Ditto for the Red Wings offering Filppula & Abdelkader +, considering the Blue Jackets could manage with their defense and another signing like Greg Zanon. I don't know what the hell the Senators are trying to offer, but it can't center on any of their defensemen. Maybe Turris & Greening +? Anyway. Devils' offer, while a decent lowball, still doesn't seem to stack up to other offers. At least from where I sit, but that's my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibby89 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 In reality, I kind of think Columbus has made some decent moves this offseason and Nash should just stick it out. They brought im Bobrovsky, Foligno and drafted well. No way are they that bad again this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanity_gallops Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Right, whoops, forgot to mention the Kovalchuk trade from Atlanta's perspective. ATL got Johnny Oduya, Niclas Bergfors, Patrice Cormier, a 1st in 2010, and a 2nd in 2010. After all was said and done, Atlanta traded Kovalchuk and eventually ended up with Radek Dvorak for a playoff run (whoops), Patrice Cormier, Dustin Byfuglien, Ben Eager, Brent Sopel (for a bit), and Akim Aliu. Plus two pending draft picks in the upcoming draft (2nd & 3rd in 2013). Given how Byfuglien has helped the team, the return could have been a lot worse. Like how they dealt Marian Hossa for spare parts... Erik Christensen, Colby Armstrong, Angelo Esposito, and a 1st round bust. Ouch. But, at the time, it was something of a low-ball offer, even though the Devils could spin Oduya as a top-pairing defenseman for them (similar to Greene), Bergfors as a potential goal scorer in the league (a step up from Josefson in that department, though Josefson has a much better all around game), a top prospect (Gelinas?), a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder. ...holy crap, Daniel's kinda right - Devils do have a shot in the dark at it. It all comes down to Howson's desperation and Nash's destination list. Yikes. *Still think the Devils' offer is crap compared to others', though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Right, whoops, forgot to mention the Kovalchuk trade from Atlanta's perspective. The Kovalchuk trade isnt a very fair barometer though. Kovy was UFA, and Nash is nowhere near. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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