Summer 2013 UFA/RFA Thread

[DJ Eco]

The Devils missed the playoffs by 7 points. One guy wasn't going to bridge that gap.

 

Think about how close so many of those games were, hitting posts and crossbars, dominating play, etc... A few goals here and there (if he were to put up some of the numbers he did during his initial stay with Pittsburgh) could have turned some of those games and instilled confidence in the rest of the roster during a time where there was none.

[MadDog2020]

I'm gonna rofl when the Flyers don't leave any cap space for Giroux next offseason

Not even Holmgren is that stupid. Giroux's not going anywhere, they'll do what they have to do to sign him. He's their franchise.

[Marshall]

The correct phrasing would be "I'm gonna ROFL when they sign Giroux to a contract which makes it impossible for them to have any depth whatsoever".

[SterioDesign]

I'm gonna rofl when the Flyers don't leave any cap space for Giroux next offseason

 

just read they are already talking contract with Giroux at this very moment so it seems he's trying to know where that whole thing is going before making moves, good way to approach it but of course Holmgren gonna fvck it up. Well i certainly hope so lol

[SterioDesign]

Think about how close so many of those games were, hitting posts and crossbars, dominating play, etc... A few goals here and there (if he were to put up some of the numbers he did during his initial stay with Pittsburgh) could have turned some of those games and instilled confidence in the rest of the roster during a time where there was none.

 

Thats true but thats what hockey is... think about ALL the games we won by one goal. That was our thing... get a lead and close the play. And the Devils has been awesome for a very long time. Over a season the difference between a few spot is very very little and pretty much all teams are getting those 1 goal game when you really look at it

[Derlique]

Thats true but thats what hockey is... think about ALL the games we won by one goal. That was our thing... get a lead and close the play. And the Devils has been awesome for a very long time. Over a season the difference between a few spot is very very little and pretty much all teams are getting those 1 goal game when you really look at it

The difference is: the Devils teams of the 90s and 00s didn't give up many chances. It's a whole new sport these days

[Triumph]

The difference is: the Devils teams of the 90s and 00s didn't give up many chances. It's a whole new sport these days

 

The Devils of the 90s and 00s didn't give up significantly fewer shots than the NJ of today.  It is not a different sport.

 

Some cherry picked years:

 

1997:  26.2 SA/60

2000:  25.6 SA/60

2003:  23.5 SA/60

2013:  23.0 SA/60

 

Again, score effects are the difference here - not arguing last year's team was better defensively than in 2003 or 2000 - but it's just not that different.

[SterioDesign]

what i really meant is that the line is very thin from team to team and that 3 games going your way or the other can have a big impact on your final standings cause parity is a lot better now than it was back then

[Devil Dan 56]

what i really meant is that the line is very thin from team to team and that 3 games going your way or the other can have a big impact on your final standings cause parity is a lot better now than it was back then

 

Agreed, especially with loser points included these days. I just don't think Jussi would have been able to swing it that far in our favor.

[Derlique]

The Devils of the 90s and 00s didn't give up significantly fewer shots than the NJ of today. It is not a different sport.

Some cherry picked years:

1997: 26.2 SA/60

2000: 25.6 SA/60

2003: 23.5 SA/60

2013: 23.0 SA/60

Again, score effects are the difference here - not arguing last year's team was better defensively than in 2003 or 2000 - but it's just not that different.

Obviously not gonna debate raw numbers but how is this possible?

The red line was taken out

Offensive zones grew

No trapezoid

Strict(er) enforcement of clutching and grabbing along with delay of game and no change icings

How long have the Devils employed their shot counter who is notorious for undercounting shots?

[ATLL765]

im just gonna reply to this cause that's pretty much my whole point and youre trying to go around it here...

 

"Plus like Zach and Elias said (i'll re-phrase merging what they both said) if a player wants to stay in the organization and that the GM want to keep them, why not just sign him? when the player feels good about the place and everything. Why wait to the point when the players as been away from the team and see other teams doing well in the playoffs and may start to wonder the what if he was somewhere else and think... well i just have to wait a few extra week and see where i could go and how much money i could really get?"

 

where the hell did i say that he should sign them to the exact terms that they want or anything? lol its all about the timing. stop ignoring this.

 

The job of the GM is try to keep his assets to the best value. How is waiting last minute and not approaching players until few days before free agency where the market price will obviously be higher and players have that leverage. Also like i said before you gotta try to get the player in the best "mood". Its like ANYTHING if you want something from someone... ask him when he's in a good mood or in a favourable position.

 

Here's an examples not hockey related at all about that whole psychology 

 

1- you got a crush on that girl in college and all year you kind of flirt but you're not making anything official really its just flirt so you both don't really know what's up and where its heading. And even if she's kinda asking you whats up between you 2 you kind of brush it off saying we'll see how it is before we leave home for summer each on our sides. If deep inside you really want to have her. Are you gonna ask her out officially while you're always together and having a good time and when you're "everything" for her. Or the day before she leaves back home for summer and that you won't see her for awhile and that she might think that after all there's other guys around. Of course it can works out fine and everything is okay but why even take that risk? And that's if you actually know what she's feeling. Sometime you have no clue if she's just nice with you or if she really wants more. Well by waiting til you're leaving for summer you do no put chances on your side to win her and convinced her when she has a foot out of the door for a few month.

 

obviously thats a ridiculous comparison but its basically what im saying. Everyone went through situations like that too, and sometimes of course you had it easy cause that person really wanted you but some other time it took some convincing for awhile. I know people that are married with kids now that at first the girl didnt even wanted to be with the guy. Fair to say if she would have had only a week to think about if she wanted to spend the rest of her life with him that their story would have been a lot different.

You're asking the wrong guy, because knowing me, I'd have waited until about 6 weeks after she left for summer vacation. That has more to do with me being paranoid and how I likely would have over analyzed every word spoken to me, coming to the conclusion that she probably is into me, but that every word she ever spoke could have really meant something else and that she might really think I'm lame. lol.

I seriously doubt LL has issues like that when it comes to negotiating with players, because they all like money, they all like hockey, it's just about finding the happy medium.

But just as the girl would have the leverage of leaving in a few month, days, etc, the pending UFA does as well, but he has that kind of leverage the whole year, not just in the month leading up to FA. It's not like being a pending UFA doesn't matter unless the contract is signed in June, they can use that to their advantage the whole time. I have a feeling players in contract negotiations are a bit more clear-minded than a girl trying to decide who to date.

The only argument you could make is that if a guy seriously undervalued himself(not likely when he has an agent), that you may have been able to sign him for less before he hits FA and gets a good idea of his value. This, however, is an extremely unlikely scenario.

[Devils731]

Obviously not gonna debate raw numbers but how is this possible?

The red line was taken out

Offensive zones grew

No trapezoid

Strict(er) enforcement of clutching and grabbing along with delay of game and no change icings

How long have the Devils employed their shot counter who is notorious for undercounting shots?

 

Bigger goalie equipment has led to players passing up shooting opportunities that they would have taken in the past because they know it's almost impossible to beat a goalie with a pure shot now.  I think that's part of the difference.

 

For example, Clarkson gets bagged on for shooting from everywhere, since many of his shots have almost no chance to go in.  15 years ago those crazy outside shots were a little bit more normal and a little bit more likely to go in.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Bigger goalie equipment has led to players passing up shooting opportunities that they would have taken in the past because they know it's almost impossible to beat a goalie with a pure shot now.  I think that's part of the difference.

 

For example, Clarkson gets bagged on for shooting from everywhere, since many of his shots have almost no chance to go in.  15 years ago those crazy outside shots were a little bit more normal and a little bit more likely to go in.

 

I've pointed this out before, but some time ago Rick Vaive (scored 441 goals in 876 games, and had three straight seasons where he topped 50) said that, back in his day, he'd often skate over his opponent's blue line and let one rip...and sometimes they'd go in.  He said in today's game he'd never be able to do that with any success...just not enough net to shoot at. 

 

Goalies are bigger but they're also better...look at any collection of 80s NHL highlight films (the thick of the Live Puck Era, when average offensive teams were scoring around 3.60 GPG, several teams were over 4.00, and the Oilers were routinely over 5.00), and you realize how much better goaltending is now.  With a few exceptions, a lot of the goaltending in the 80s was not great. 

Edited June 19, 2013 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[SterioDesign]

I've pointed this out before, but some time ago Rick Vaive (scored 441 goals in 876 games, and had three straight seasons where he topped 50) said that, back in his day, he'd often skate over his opponent's blue line and let one rip...and sometimes they'd go in).  He said in today's game he'd never be able to do that with any success...just not enough net to shoot at. 

 

Goalies are bigger but they're also better...look at any collection of 80s NHL highlight films (the thick of the Live Puck Era, when average offensive teams were scoring around 3.60 GPG, several teams were over 4.00, and the Oilers were routinely over 5.00), and you realize how much better goaltending is now.  With a few exceptions, a lot of the goaltending in the 80s was not great. 

 

Thats true, look at old videos and some goals are absolutely brutal i always think of that goal Lafleur scored on the PP on that famous too many men penalty that Don cherry took... Lemaire dropped the puck and a low slapper unscreened went in while the goalie was doing the star in net lol... in today's NHL im pretty sure that shot is not going in ever.

[Devil Dan 56]

I've pointed this out before, but some time ago Rick Vaive (scored 441 goals in 876 games, and had three straight seasons where he topped 50) said that, back in his day, he'd often skate over his opponent's blue line and let one rip...and sometimes they'd go in.  He said in today's game he'd never be able to do that with any success...just not enough net to shoot at. 

 

Goalies are bigger but they're also better...look at any collection of 80s NHL highlight films (the thick of the Live Puck Era, when average offensive teams were scoring around 3.60 GPG, several teams were over 4.00, and the Oilers were routinely over 5.00), and you realize how much better goaltending is now.  With a few exceptions, a lot of the goaltending in the 80s was not great. 

 

I always think of Lemieux's goal on Hextall in 1995, where he just skated in and let it rip. Those are so rare. Hahah, actually, now I think of how pissed I used to get at Gio for doing the exact same thing 10 years later.

[SterioDesign]

I always think of Lemieux's goal on Hextall in 1995, where he just skated in and let it rip. Those are so rare. Hahah, actually, now I think of how pissed I used to get at Gio for doing the exact same thing 10 years later.

 

that goal is the most beautiful thing that happened in the NHL in the last decade i think lol god was it ever beautiful... sucks a Pens had to do it

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I always think of Lemieux's goal on Hextall in 1995, where he just skated in and let it rip. Those are so rare. Hahah, actually, now I think of how pissed I used to get at Gio for doing the exact same thing 10 years later.

 

The funny thing is, what happened to Hextall wasn't uncommon to see in the 80s and into the 90s even, as far as goalies went...but goaltending was improving around Hextall throughout his career...Hextall didn't really get worse as much as he stayed the same, while younger guys coming up were getting better. 

 

SD, DD56 is talking about Claude Lemieux's Game 5 goal against the Flyers:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0TEcfluM9c

[Devils731]

I agree goalies are better now than they used to be, but it's really hard to quantify how much better.  It's such a different experience being a goalie now, with lighter and bigger equipment, that I can't even make a fair comparison of goalies today and goalies of yesteryear.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I agree goalies are better now than they used to be, but it's really hard to quantify how much better.  It's such a different experience being a goalie now, with lighter and bigger equipment, that I can't even make a fair comparison of goalies today and goalies of yesteryear.

 

That's fair, it's like trying to compare QBs of the NFL who played in the 70s to QBs now.  But like you, I definitely think goaltending all-around is better.  There are guys I remember from the 80s who wouldn't cut it in today's game, even with more jobs available now.

[SterioDesign]

The funny thing is, what happened to Hextall wasn't uncommon to see in the 80s and into the 90s even, as far as goalies went...but goaltending was improving around Hextall throughout his career...Hextall didn't really get worse as much as he stayed the same, while younger guys coming up were getting better. 

 

SD, DD56 is talking about Claude Lemieux's Game 5 goal against the Flyers:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0TEcfluM9c

 

oh THAT Lemieux, sorry sorry. Got confuse cause i thought what goes does Lemieux (Mario) and (Gio) Malkin had in common....

 

But you still see those once in awhile... and even against the best of the best, just like year...

 

[SterioDesign]

per drosennhl

 

Shero would like to have an agreement in principle for an extension with Letang by the draft. He called it one of several pressure points.

 

just sayin'... since apparently no one does this in the NHL

[Triumph]

per drosennhl

 

Shero would like to have an agreement in principle for an extension with Letang by the draft. He called it one of several pressure points.

 

just sayin'... since apparently no one does this in the NHL

 

There's very few instances of a playoff team asking a player mid-season if he wants to stay, then trading him at the deadline if he doesn't.  That's what I was talking about when I said no one does this.  

 

And trading players who are going UFA in a year - that doesn't happen that often, although that's more common (Burns, Cammalleri, I think Tanguay, Staal, and plenty of others).  

 

Sure seems like given the leak about Letang being dealt that they are trying to use his desire to stay in Pittsburgh as leverage.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Triumph

[Devils731]

This was just a coincidence, but it's a good move, although I have a feeling a 10% reduction isn't enough and no idea how they define 10%

 

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 43m

Ron Hainsey spoke to gm's and acknowledged their urgency in shrinking goalie equip. Height of pads likely to be reduced by 10%..

[SterioDesign]

There's very few instances of a playoff team asking a player mid-season if he wants to stay, then trading him at the deadline if he doesn't.  That's what I was talking about when I said no one does this.  

 

And trading players who are going UFA in a year - that doesn't happen that often, although that's more common (Burns, Cammalleri, I think Tanguay, Staal, and plenty of others).  

 

Sure seems like given the leak about Letang being dealt that they are trying to use his desire to stay in Pittsburgh as leverage.

 

ah well thats not what i was suggestion or referring either really, like i said its more just like what shero is doing now, if he sense that there's no hope for Letang in Pittsburgh in the future its better to know it soon enough to play your cards the right way to get maximum return without hurting your team too much immediatly if you can.

[Triumph]

And again, that has its downsides, because the last time he did it, he got back Brandon Sutter for Jordan Staal, and Sutter sank under Staal's minutes.  I doubt he gets equal return for Letang either, which is a curious move to make when your two best players are right in their prime.