SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 the thing is on the attack the guys are doing exactly what they are asked to do, it's just not working. We could even get... i dont know? Pat Kane who could deke out 2-3 guys and score but he wouldnt cause he'd have to dump and chase and fight along the boards. We need to get board beast like Zubrus and dman with better shots. Our system is relying on those 2 things and we dont have enough guys strong on those 2 things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I love this oft-used, completely irrelevant/untrue cliche. How about Wolski having an open goal stopped by Jedi mind-force - ain't that luck enough? How about Henrique missing multiple open nets this year? These things happen both ways lol ah well if you want to go the whole year depending on luck always going our way... knock yourself out dude. If you can't admit the Devils have been playing pretty bad this year other than that good stretch well i dont know what to tell you. Im glad where we are in the standings but having the flyers and rangers and so many teams struggling is certainly helpingHow exactly have they been playing "bad"? They're 10-4-4 and have 24 pts in 18 games. Whenever theDevils win, they are getting lucky. But when they lose, the other team is just overwhelmingly better than us? What luck, they lost two of the games 5-1 and got dominated the last 45 minutes at home against an inferior team on President's Day.You can't bring your best every game. We were winning the whole game so it's natural that Ottawa would push the envelope more. Regarding the 5-1 games, our PK has largely let us down. I have faith in the coaches to sort it out the thing is on the attack the guys are doing exactly what they are asked to do, it's just not working. We could even get... i dont know? Pat Kane who could deke out 2-3 guys and score but he wouldnt cause he'd have to dump and chase and fight along the boards. We need to get board beast like Zubrus and dman with better shots. Our system is relying on those 2 things and we dont have enough guys strong on those 2 things Maybe 1 out of 5 times Kane pulls off that deke. The other 80%, he turns it over at the blue line often resulting in an odd man rush the other way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoArmySports Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Volchenkov for a 5th do it Lou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 How exactly have they been playing "bad"? They're 10-4-4 and have 24 pts in 18 games. Whenever theDevils win, they are getting lucky. But when they lose, the other team is just overwhelmingly better than us? yet you were one of the guy supporting the shooting % thing about Gionta pointing out that even though he was producing that he was actually bad and just lucky... then you go the other way around the say the opposite when we clearly see that the Devils are bad with our eyes and you deny it using the Devils records... interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Is Volchenkov noticeably worse in NJ compared to Ottawa? When we first got him I didn't know much, but read he was a very physical defensive D-man who was a god of shot blocking. But if he was also terrible then, someone inform me. Volchenkov was mainly known for being an expert shot blocker in Ottawa and he was more physical in Ottawa. He's neither in New Jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) yet you were one of the guy supporting the shooting % thing about Gionta pointing out that even though he was producing that he was actually bad and just lucky... then you go the other way around the say the opposite when we clearly see that the Devils are bad with our eyes and you deny it using the Devils records... interesting I never said he was bad or deserved to be benched. I'm somewhere between you and Triumph. I said he should be taken off the PK and that he has been getting the benefit of the bounces. How exactly are they bad? Because of some loosey-goosey penalty killing and the inability to score in the last 4 games? They're playing decently, just not getting the results Edit- I know it's only been 3 games, but Loktianov looks like a player. It looks like he has some chemistry brewing with Kovalchuk Edited February 23, 2013 by SMantzas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I never said he was bad or deserved to be benched. I'm somewhere between you and Triumph. I said he should be taken off the PK and that he has been getting the benefit of the bounces. How exactly are they bad? Because of some loosey-goosey penalty killing and the inability to score in the last 4 games? They're playing decently, just not getting the results Edit- I know it's only been 3 games, but Loktianov looks like a player. It looks like he has some chemistry brewing with Kovalchuk to me the dmen are bad because they are slow. A good simple defensive system is usually working and that's why we had a good D for the last few years eventhough we don't have superstars. To me and again it's so obvious, our breakouts and our attack is a struggle, the guys doesnt have "good possession" IMO and it's hard to create good opportunities with that. when they get control of the puck in the neutral zone they'll dump it and will have to battle to get back possession and by the time they have it everyone will be in the zone. We can barely score on the PP yet we try to settle a powerplay setup 5 on 5... we're missing our 2 best guys along the boards and on the PK from last year and it was a HUGE part of our success during the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH26 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 the thing is on the attack the guys are doing exactly what they are asked to do, it's just not working. We could even get... i dont know? Pat Kane who could deke out 2-3 guys and score but he wouldnt cause he'd have to dump and chase and fight along the boards. We need to get board beast like Zubrus and dman with better shots. Our system is relying on those 2 things and we dont have enough guys strong on those 2 things who do we have on this team that could do that besides maybe Elias but rarely? Kovalchuk's not a wiggler like that he's more power. Zajac? Clarkson? Loktionov? Bobby Butler? Teams with Patrick Kane and Claude Giroux do it because they have Patrick Kane and Claude Giroux, not the other way around. And, I dunno, the system worked pretty well last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 to me the dmen are bad because they are slow. A good simple defensive system is usually working and that's why we had a good D for the last few years eventhough we don't have superstars. To me and again it's so obvious, our breakouts and our attack is a struggle, the guys doesnt have "good possession" IMO and it's hard to create good opportunities with that. when they get control of the puck in the neutral zone they'll dump it and will have to battle to get back possession and by the time they have it everyone will be in the zone. We can barely score on the PP yet we try to settle a powerplay setup 5 on 5... we're missing our 2 best guys along the boards and on the PK from last year and it was a HUGE part of our success during the season. Can't argue with you there. Greene and Zidlicky are our only dmen with any sort of speed. Those guys, along with Larsson and Fayne are the only ones capable of any breakout. Salvador and Volchenkov are grenade handlers and often just slap itout of the zone. Our problem is that we only have two guys (Elias and Kovalchuk) who are dependable carrying the puck in the zone. Even then, Kovalchuk often turns the puck over. It looks like Lokti has the ability to do it, we just need to see more of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 March is going to brutal and a real test of this team's mettle. What's the ETA on Zubrus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 How about Henrique missing multiple open nets this year? These things happen both ways .........yes....correct.....that's the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 When does Reid Boucher get a shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 who do we have on this team that could do that besides maybe Elias but rarely? Kovalchuk's not a wiggler like that he's more power. Zajac? Clarkson? Loktionov? Bobby Butler? Teams with Patrick Kane and Claude Giroux do it because they have Patrick Kane and Claude Giroux, not the other way around. And, I dunno, the system worked pretty well last year. thats false, we had Kovy and he's not even doing it anymore, why? cause he's playing the system perfectly. He'll carry the puck till right after the blue line and stop there, he'll NEVER try to beat the dman while they have an odd man rush, NEVER. if anything he'll take a shot through his legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamtheprodigy Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Volchenkov for a 5th do it Lou. How would that make our team better exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 thats false, we had Kovy and he's not even doing it anymore, why? cause he's playing the system perfectly. He'll carry the puck till right after the blue line and stop there, he'll NEVER try to beat the dman while they have an odd man rush, NEVER. if anything he'll take a shot through his legs. Other than your use of always and never being totally ridiculous, I'm glad that Kovalchuk doesn't try 1 on 1 moves often anymore, because this isn't a 1 on 1 league. You claim to watch so much hockey - are you noticing that defensemen don't often get beat 1 on 1 anymore, unless the guy has a ton of speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 How would that make our team better exactly? cap space + another pick for the draft who could turn out to be a decent player. we have a team who struggle to create good offence and make good breakouts and who's bad on the PK... so why do we need a guy who cant score, cant create plays, slow and who take bad penalties at 4m+ a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 who do we have on this team that could do that besides maybe Elias but rarely? Kovalchuk's not a wiggler like that he's more power. Zajac? Clarkson? Loktionov? Bobby Butler? Teams with Patrick Kane and Claude Giroux do it because they have Patrick Kane and Claude Giroux, not the other way around. And, I dunno, the system worked pretty well last year. This. You can't expect players to "just deke 2 or 3 guys". There's pretty much no one on this team who can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Other than your use of always and never being totally ridiculous, I'm glad that Kovalchuk doesn't try 1 on 1 moves often anymore, because this isn't a 1 on 1 league. You claim to watch so much hockey - are you noticing that defensemen don't often get beat 1 on 1 anymore, unless the guy has a ton of speed? you're missing my point there, i'm not saying Kovy should try to beat guys all the time, but do things differently. He's always doing the same thing and the only games that Kovy is really something to watch and produce is when he's going out of that system and that he's doing other stuff. but as a matter of facts... yes im noticing guys beating dmen quite often and not that they score all the time but it's creating something or even a rebound. last game against washington... Ovechkin deked through our 2 dmen and got a shot and they scored off that rebound. on that play a devils carrier would have send the puck behind the net on the boards... see what im saying? This. You can't expect players to "just deke 2 or 3 guys". There's pretty much no one on this team who can do that. that's not what i meant, our guys can make pretty passes and plays down the middle we saw them doing it a few times in the last few years, but they don't go for that since they have to dump it most of the time. Or have a guy crashing to the net on a breakouts.. the guys simply dont go for those plays. And christ, when they actually try those plays it actually works pretty often. Ive been saying all year last year that the guys were not sending pucks to the net from the side, that they would only go for point shots... turns out our biggest goal of the playoffs came by sending a puck to the net from the side. or Zajac OT goal against florida... Kovy went through the middle and made that pass, he went out of his typical play and it worked, im surprise they dont try it more often Edited February 23, 2013 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamtheprodigy Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 cap space + another pick for the draft who could turn out to be a decent player. we have a team who struggle to create good offence and make good breakouts and who's bad on the PK... so why do we need a guy who cant score, cant create plays, slow and who take bad penalties at 4m+ a year? Or in other words, it doesn't make the team better. A draft pick and cap space (that we probably won't use anyway) won't help us score more goals. If you dump Volchenkov, his spot just gets filled by Tallinder/Fayne or maybe Harrold. Do you really think any of them are going to provide significantly more offense and improve the PK? I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 you're missing my point there, i'm not saying Kovy should try to beat guys all the time, but do things differently. He's always doing the same thing and the only games that Kovy is really something to watch and produce is when he's going out of that system and that he's doing other stuff. I don't see this at all. but as a matter of facts... yes im noticing guys beating dmen quite often and not that they score all the time but it's creating something or even a rebound. last game against washington... Ovechkin deked through our 2 dmen and got a shot and they scored off that rebound. on that play a devils carrier would have send the puck behind the net on the boards... see what im saying? You can't remember what player is responsible, but you're telling me to trust your memory that 1 on 1 dekes work a lot. BTW, Clarkson has done this move a fair amount on the PP, and Bernier's tried it too - they come down their off-wing, the opponent expects a backhand pass off the boards to the trailing point man, but then they cut to the middle and get away a shot. that's not what i meant, our guys can make pretty passes and plays down the middle we saw them doing it a few times in the last few years, but they don't go for that since they have to dump it most of the time. Or have a guy crashing to the net on a breakouts.. the guys simply dont go for those plays. And christ, when they actually try those plays it actually works pretty often. Ive been saying all year last year that the guys were not sending pucks to the net from the side, that they would only go for point shots... turns out our biggest goal of the playoffs came by sending a puck to the net from the side. or Zajac OT goal against florida... Kovy went through the middle and made that pass, he went out of his typical play and it worked, im surprise they dont try it more often Both plays required enormous defensive breakdowns to succeed. And your issue is that you are only thinking of when they work, not when they don't work. Kovalchuk criss-crosses all the time in the neutral zone with people. The Devils should be trying to gain the blueline with speed, and they haven't exactly been successful in this regard lately. I don't think it's because of some fundamental flaw with the Devils' system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Or in other words, it doesn't make the team better. A draft pick and cap space (that we probably won't use anyway) won't help us score more goals. If you dump Volchenkov, his spot just gets filled by Tallinder/Fayne or maybe Harrold. Do you really think any of them are going to provide significantly more offense and improve the PK? I don't. never said i wanted to get a better team NOW. Our farm team and prospect pool is terrible we have to try to get as much picks as we can. Volchenkov is not helping now and anything we can get for him would be appreciated at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Volchenkov was mainly known for being an expert shot blocker in Ottawa and he was more physical in Ottawa. He's neither in New Jersey. except he's still both. blocks shots plenty when in position. where he did it a ton in ottawa was PK and you don't see it as much lately because the d move around so much. he's also plenty physical and hits when it's appropriate. the notion of "scott stevens scaring forwards and knocking guys out of every game" isn't in the league anymore anywhere (and really, it was a lot of exaggeration and hyperbole w/ stevens also). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I don't see this at all. You can't remember what player is responsible, but you're telling me to trust your memory that 1 on 1 dekes work a lot. BTW, Clarkson has done this move a fair amount on the PP, and Bernier's tried it too - they come down their off-wing, the opponent expects a backhand pass off the boards to the trailing point man, but then they cut to the middle and get away a shot. Both plays required enormous defensive breakdowns to succeed. And your issue is that you are only thinking of when they work, not when they don't work. Kovalchuk criss-crosses all the time in the neutral zone with people. The Devils should be trying to gain the blueline with speed, and they haven't exactly been successful in this regard lately. I don't think it's because of some fundamental flaw with the Devils' system. it's like you don't get what im trying to say on purpose sometimes. just tell me this... explain me what the Devils breakout and offensive system is from what you see and how they try to create their offence Go. anyone who want to give it a shot can answer that too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamtheprodigy Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) never said i wanted to get a better team NOW. Our farm team and prospect pool is terrible we have to try to get as much picks as we can. Volchenkov is not helping now and anything we can get for him would be appreciated at this point. Volchenkov is helping plenty. He plays 17 minutes a night, 3-4 min on the penalty kill, and he's an even +/-, so he's obviously not getting destroyed. You can't just remove him from the scene without replacing him with somebody, and you didn't answer my question. Who is the replacement for Volchenkov that isn't going to hurt the team? Do we really want to be removing pieces right now and building our prospect pool? You are talking as if we are out of the playoff race and we need to start rebuilding. We're still tied for 1st place. Trading usable pieces for low draft picks makes no sense. Edited February 23, 2013 by iamtheprodigy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 except he's still both. blocks shots plenty when in position. where he did it a ton in ottawa was PK and you don't see it as much lately because the d move around so much. he's also plenty physical and hits when it's appropriate. the notion of "scott stevens scaring forwards and knocking guys out of every game" isn't in the league anymore anywhere (and really, it was a lot of exaggeration and hyperbole w/ stevens also). I never see Volch do anything that impressive anymore. At this point in his career Volch's downside far outweighs his upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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