Post Mentions Bankruptcy. Forbes now says JVB has full ownership pendi

[DevsMan84]

Devils calling the report "patently untrue".. And I agree with them, although I know most people will go "Of course their saying that!!".. Ok well they know their finances better than anyone, and it was an article from The Post, so I'll choose to believe my team over an article written by a paper that took us off the main page of their site and a paper that loves to write these kinds of articles about the Devils.. Maybe if the Ledger or the Record thought that this deserved a mention, then maybe I'd care

There are 2 articles right now about this on nj.com (aka the SL)

[3CUPSN9]

Shocking....

[ghdi]

Devils statement per TG

“Today’s New York Post story is inaccurate. The notions that the Devils are facing bankruptcy or that “the Devils have told their banks to get lost” are patently untrue. The Devils value their relationship with their banks and are confident a refinancing will be completed shortly. As stated previously, ownership is close to finalizing an agreement that would lead to a buyout of Brick City’s share of the company. The organization is also pleased to report that new season ticket sales are up 130% over last year and last week’s on-sale for single game tickets were 260% above last year’s similar period. Finally, the start of training camp was incorrectly reported in the article as tomorrow, in fact, training camp starts on Friday for the rookies and Saturday for the veterans.”

[Devils731]

Devils calling the report "patently untrue".. And I agree with them, although I know most people will go "Of course their saying that!!".. Ok well they know their finances better than anyone, and it was an article from The Post, so I'll choose to believe my team over an article written by a paper that took us off the main page of their site and a paper that loves to write these kinds of articles about the Devils.. Maybe if the Ledger or the Record thought that this deserved a mention, then maybe I'd care

I dunno, unnamed source is rarely wrong.

There are 2 articles right now about this on nj.com (aka the SL)

I saw one of them, it was just some nobody at the paper stealing the Post article and passing it off as their own.

[Colin226]

There are 2 articles right now about this on nj.com (aka the SL)

An article about the Post's article, is hardly an article

Devils statement per TG

“Today’s New York Post story is inaccurate. The notions that the Devils are facing bankruptcy or that “the Devils have told their banks to get lost” are patently untrue. The Devils value their relationship with their banks and are confident a refinancing will be completed shortly. As stated previously, ownership is close to finalizing an agreement that would lead to a buyout of Brick City’s share of the company. The organization is also pleased to report that new season ticket sales are up 130% over last year and last week’s on-sale for single game tickets were 260% above last year’s similar period. Finally, the start of training camp was incorrectly reported in the article as tomorrow, in fact, training camp starts on Friday for the rookies and Saturday for the veterans.”

Boom-shaka-laka

This just in.. Post reporting the NJ Devils could be the source of the 2012 apocalypse, and that the team's mascot NJ was in fact the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll

Edited September 12, 2011 by Colin226

[Devs1965]

Devils calling the report "patently untrue".. And I agree with them, although I know most people will go "Of course their saying that!!".. Ok well they know their finances better than anyone, and it was an article from The Post, so I'll choose to believe my team over an article written by a paper that took us off the main page of their site and a paper that loves to write these kinds of articles about the Devils.. Maybe if the Ledger or the Record thought that this deserved a mention, then maybe I'd care

If this is untrue,(which I hope it is). Do the Devils have a leagal case against the post? This could hurt potential sales!

Go NJ Devils

[DaneykoIsGod]

There are 2 articles right now about this on nj.com (aka the SL)

This was the only piece of information I could find there that wasn't a re-wording of something from the Post's article:

Senior executive vice-president and chief operating officer Chris Modrzynski, who had been employed by the club for 25 years and handled the day-to-day business operations and many financial matters, was fired in the offseason. Several others in the Devils' office have also been dismissed, although it is not known whether these moves are designed to cut salaries and expenses.

[sundstrom]

I don't think the loan was defaulted on was it? They missed their September 1st payment. If someone is monitoring the situation this closely and this is the first we've heard about their payments, it's not that bad. Also, their payment is less than two weeks late.... They'll have to pay a late fee... the horror! If this payment is made sometime this month, this whole story is just bullsh!t speculation.

Based on past articles, the loan came due on Sep 1, so the entire amount of the loan was owed.

correct.

and if you read the devils statement, its quite clear what's happening. The devils missed the balloon payment on 9/1 when they couldn't get investors or come up w/ enough cash to pay it off. So they're working a refinance deal where they'll take out ANOTHER loan. they'll need to come up with some amount of down payment (say 20% tops - $20mm) that will pay off this entire previous loan and kick the can down the line a ways. why would the bank push bankruptcy where they're in much worse shape to get $ and have to actually run a hockey team as opposed to giving them a clear path to take out another loan.

[Devs1965]

If this is untrue,(which I hope it is). Do the Devils have a leagal case against the post? This could hurt potential sales!

Go NJ Devils

Just read TG source, Colin,,, LOL But still irks me how someone can just make stuff up.

[NewarkDevil5]

If this is untrue,(which I hope it is). Do the Devils have a leagal case against the post? This could hurt potential sales!

Go NJ Devils

That's an excellent question. Anyone have any experience with slander law that could comment?

[DaneykoIsGod]

So who owns the remaining 6% of the team then???

Posted by kevin on 09/12 at 02:22 PM

Peter Simon owns the rest of the team.

I’ll add that to the post.

Posted by Tom Gulitti on 09/12 at 02:26 PM

[mxm262]

Not taking the Devils statement at face value. There is probably some truth on both sides IMO.

But I will use the day's development to express why I am disgusted with what media has turned into...mostly speculation with a sprinkle of truth. Lost some respect for Chere in this too.

11:13 NJ.com reposts the Post article.

1:12 (because no-one from the Devils made a statement yet), he runs the headline asking if the already have filed for bankruptcy.

How about reporting the facts when you get them, rather than feed into speculation?

I like what TG did, withheld comment until he had something to report. You don’t see enough of that anymore

[hurricane1091]

This is how I see it. Yes, the Devils have been cutting costs, there is no doubt about it. However, you have the other owner trying to sell his stake. He probably does not want to keep putting money into the team when he is trying to sell his share. Makes sense, right? So, if season ticket sales are through the roof, and attendance is sure to be up this year, then how could we be in a worse situation than previous years? How could the Nets, Liberty, and concert events along with Devils games, concessions, memorabilia sales, etc not produce enough income? How could teams with worse attendance sales + less concessions/apparel sales be afloat and we are not? I don't buy into this sh!t at all. I believe once the other owner is out of the picture, then things will go back to normal.

[maxpower]

Well, from Daniel's bizarre scouring of debtline or whatever that was, there is obviously at least a grain of truth to this.

Still the team's behavior doesn't feel anything near DEFCON levels of "oh sh!t we're broke." You just don't pay someone like Andy Greene money if you don't have money.

And I don't know who reads what and oh well... but Mr. Mo's firing was a looooooooongggggg time coming. It may have been a money thing but, he's a nice guy but he just seemed totally ineffectual, and with all of the new people they've brought in to wear hats, I don't understand what his purpose was.

[sundstrom]

Well, from Daniel's bizarre scouring of debtline or whatever that was, there is obviously at least a grain of truth to this.

again, there's 100% truth to the fact that they missed the deadline of the balloon payment of 9/1.

headed towards bankruptcy is where it gets murky - again, it's in the lender's best interest to roll over the loan w/ another 20% payment rather than let the team file for bankruptcy.

[maxpower]

again, there's 100% truth to the fact that they missed the deadline of the balloon payment of 9/1.

headed towards bankruptcy is where it gets murky - again, it's in the lender's best interest to roll over the loan w/ another 20% payment rather than let the team file for bankruptcy.

Well, I think bankruptcy (or a total sale) is pretty much inevitable. IIRC, the 2014 balloon is significantly bigger. They built an arena at the wrong time, and I don't know what JVB's intentions are here long-term, but when one half of your operation is helmed by a pump and dump guy....

Honestly I wouldn't be opposed to a total sale right now.

[sundstrom]

Honestly I wouldn't be opposed to a total sale right now.

i'm fine with that too but i think the real issue is that you're just not going to generate a great return on your investment for the amount of cash that has to go in.

let's say that a total sale of the Devils (including their ownership in the arena) goes for $200mm. To make this worth someone's while as far as ROI, you'd really need $10mm in profits/year - 5%. That's terribly difficult to do. No Investment Entity is making this buy.

edit - perhaps "terribly difficult" is a bit strong but it's not easy - they'd need $50mm payroll, 15k+ avg attendance, 250 booked dates, 2 rounds of playoffs to get that figure, i'd think.

Really, this team NEEDS an owner like JVB - someone who loves the team and can absorb deal w/ p&l's of +/- $5MM and see owning the team as a vanity project.

Nobody is buying the devils and expecting to "make a living" off it. so that means you have to get a rich superfan that likes owning the NEW JERSEY DEVILS and not the Quebec Devils or Hamilton Devils or Kansas City Devils.

not so easy.

Edited September 12, 2011 by sundstrom

[maxpower]

i'm fine with that too but i think the real issue is that you're just not going to generate a great return on your investment for the amount of cash that has to go in.

let's say that a total sale of the Devils (including their ownership in the arena) goes for $200mm. To make this worth someone's while as far as ROI, you'd really need $10mm in profits/year - 5%. That's terribly difficult to do. No Investment Entity is making this buy.

edit - perhaps "terribly difficult" is a bit strong but it's not easy - they'd need $50mm payroll, 15k+ avg attendance, 250 booked dates, 2 rounds of playoffs to get that figure, i'd think.

Really, this team NEEDS an owner like JVB - someone who loves the team and can absorb deal w/ p&l's of +/- $5MM and see owning the team as a vanity project.

Nobody is buying the devils and expecting to "make a living" off it. so that means you have to get a rich superfan that likes owning the NEW JERSEY DEVILS and not the Quebec Devils or Hamilton Devils or Kansas City Devils.

not so easy.

Isn't most of this debt money tied into the arena? Thus if they were moved it would have to be serviced and it would be ridiculously expensive to buy?

I would just would like stable ownership at this point. If that requires a tight budget, so be it. It doesn't have to be Buffalo Sabres "ah fvck it, let's lose $20M this year to make a point" ownership. This is extremely messy, and while I don't think it's immediately disasterous like Daniel did, it just doesn't bode well down the road.

[sundstrom]

Isn't most of this debt money tied into the arena? Thus if they were moved it would have to be serviced and it would be ridiculously expensive to buy?

I would just would like stable ownership at this point. If that requires a tight budget, so be it. It doesn't have to be Buffalo Sabres "ah fvck it, let's lose $20M this year to make a point" ownership. This is extremely messy, and while I don't think it's immediately disasterous like Daniel did, it just doesn't bode well down the road.

yes, a lot of debt is to the arena so it's "self funded" but they still need to pay back these loans. i think JVB will give it a go for a couple years w/ a purchase from Chambers/Gilfilan. it's possible that they can squeeze out profits w/ the "better marketing" that fans always call for. now that they get concession money and everything else that goes on in the arena, they can give super cheap ticket deals because those people will still spend once they're in the building. you will have many more people happy to have a full arena that may have paid a bit higher for their tix than you will people who bitch that some people are getting in cheap.

[Daniel]

Well, from Daniel's bizarre scouring of debtline or whatever that was, there is obviously at least a grain of truth to this.

Still the team's behavior doesn't feel anything near DEFCON levels of "oh sh!t we're broke." You just don't pay someone like Andy Greene money if you don't have money.

And I don't know who reads what and oh well... but Mr. Mo's firing was a looooooooongggggg time coming. It may have been a money thing but, he's a nice guy but he just seemed totally ineffectual, and with all of the new people they've brought in to wear hats, I don't understand what his purpose was.

To clarify, someone sent the story to me. I'm not a subscriber.

[Derlique]

yes, a lot of debt is to the arena so it's "self funded" but they still need to pay back these loans. i think JVB will give it a go for a couple years w/ a purchase from Chambers/Gilfilan. it's possible that they can squeeze out profits w/ the "better marketing" that fans always call for. now that they get concession money and everything else that goes on in the arena, they can give super cheap ticket deals because those people will still spend once they're in the building. you will have many more people happy to have a full arena that may have paid a bit higher for their tix than you will people who bitch that some people are getting in cheap.

agreed. a better atmosphere= more people wanting to return to games.

then of course you have concessions, devils den etc.

[maxpower]

Yeah, but they're liquidating a good deal of their in-building sales to STH. I mean, I got a $500 food card coming. I don't even think I can eat $500 worth of food in 30 or so games.

If you're teetering on doom, do you do this? Seems kinda illogical. Like I said, their behavior doesn't match the situation proposed in the article. So I wouldn't start running around in circles screaming they're doomed. I don't think they're in a good spot, and they're probably going to have to start living on a budget at bare minimum, but if bankruptcy is a legitimate option, they're not going about it right.

[Colin226]

Yeah, but they're liquidating a good deal of their in-building sales to STH. I mean, I got a $500 food card coming. I don't even think I can eat $500 worth of food in 30 or so games.

If you're teetering on doom, do you do this? Seems kinda illogical. Like I said, their behavior doesn't match the situation proposed in the article. So I wouldn't start running around in circles screaming they're doomed. I don't think they're in a good spot, and they're probably going to have to start living on a budget at bare minimum, but if bankruptcy is a legitimate option, they're not going about it right.

Yeah but $500 worth of food to the customer/fan actually cost the team like $100 - $125 (and some might argue that I'm being generous)

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

Devils statement per TG

[...] that “the Devils have told their banks to get lost” [is] patently untrue.

That was the phrase that gave me hope in the article. Such a ridiculous way describe the situation, almost certainly false and casts doubt on the rest of the information contained within.

Edited September 12, 2011 by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

[maxpower]

Yeah but $500 worth of food to the customer/fan actually cost the team like $100 - $125 (and some might argue that I'm being generous)

You're missing the point. They've basically assured they get no additional revenue off me this year. It's not how much it costs them, it's how much they make. If you're going into extreme penny-pinching, this is not something you should do. So to me, they don't have the look of a team that is operationally preparing to default, meaning they won't be able to borrow money to operate and have to live within their own means.