Langenbrunner says he needs to play better

[DaneykoIsGod]

About as much as that overpriced, aging, false-idol Patrick Elias has...... unless they give some sort of trophy for 2cnd round exits these days.

Wow..... nothing this guy will ever do will be right for some fans.

Speaking of never getting it right ... until Elias quits on the coach, quits on the team, fails to motivate himself for the playoffs and earns a reputation around the league as a whiner, your little "Elias is a poopyhead too" song and dance will hold about as much weight as a wet paper bag.

[Jerrydevil]

Speaking of never getting it right ... until Elias quits on the coach, quits on the team, fails to motivate himself for the playoffs and earns a reputation around the league as a whiner, your little "Elias is a poopyhead too" song and dance will hold about as much weight as a wet paper bag.

Langenbrunner's behavior last year still sticks in my craw, too. It's kind of hard to let go.

[DevilinLA]

Speaking of never getting it right ... until Elias quits on the coach, quits on the team, fails to motivate himself for the playoffs and earns a reputation around the league as a whiner, your little "Elias is a poopyhead too" song and dance will hold about as much weight as a wet paper bag.

He HAS quit on the team before. Hello playoffs since 2006? Invisible $6 MILLION DOLLAR man.

As far as leading this guy was "CAPTAN AMERICA" here 6 months ago - how quickly we forget the avatars, sigs, and photoshopped paraphernalia eh? And at least he led that team (which was predicted to do little against the mighty Canadiens and Russians) to a gold medal round. What did the Elias-led Czech team do again? The only reputation Langs has around the league is a good player and good leader at a decent price. Check any board or hockey site and if there is a LANGS trade theory - the word "leadership" will be nearby.

Whiner? Who has been the media voice as of late whining about the coaching, Kovy, the vets - I'll give you a hint - it has a Czech accent. Oh wait - thats accountability - sorry I get it confused - it must have something to do with those nostalgia glasses I never bought.

Speaking of accountability - Langs addresses the media - points the finger DIRECTLY at himself and his personal play (i.e. accountability) and many here flame him. When has Elias ever mentioned his personal play and made himself accountable for it? Or is he just in the habit of pointing the finger at guys that make the same salary as him for their lapses?

No DIG, my argument isn't "Elias is a poopyhead too" - its that Elias is NOT the leader of this team, and at $6M of our cap space if he doesn't start producing I could care less what he says or what he did in the past. If I could move him for space I would - tomorrow. As nice of a guy as he is he's aging and overpaid - and that is a liability in todays NHL. It was the same with Brylin, with Holik, with Madden, and with the rest of our old friends. The future is right around the corner and Elias still has minimal trade attraction.

He is no longer the best 2-way player on this team.

He is no longer the best defensive forward here (nor should we be paying $6M for a defensive forward)

He is no longer an elite sniper worth his contract.

The past 4 years have been about finding the right center for him (Zubrus, Rolston, Arnott) nothing has worked enough to validate that its not an Elias-related issue vs. "being surrounded by elite players"

Unless he shows me that he still can be worth anywhere close to what he is paid he is perfect trade material to make room for the future.

[Devils731]

We get it, nobody can be criticized before Elias because Elias is the worst. He's been effectively the teams top or second best point getter, when playing, for the past decade, including the past 4 years. He plays wing or center, whichever the team asks, he plays PP and PK, he had a coach that obviously had it out for him from day 1 in Sutter, and he's played through a debilitating disease.

Elias has obviously been the biggest problem and should be brought up as being a huge issue whenever Langenbrunner is criticized.

[CarpathianForest]

He HAS quit on the team before. Hello playoffs since 2006? Invisible $6 MILLION DOLLAR man.

As far as leading this guy was "CAPTAN AMERICA" here 6 months ago - how quickly we forget the avatars, sigs, and photoshopped paraphernalia eh? And at least he led that team (which was predicted to do little against the mighty Canadiens and Russians) to a gold medal round. What did the Elias-led Czech team do again? The only reputation Langs has around the league is a good player and good leader at a decent price. Check any board or hockey site and if there is a LANGS trade theory - the word "leadership" will be nearby.

Whiner? Who has been the media voice as of late whining about the coaching, Kovy, the vets - I'll give you a hint - it has a Czech accent. Oh wait - thats accountability - sorry I get it confused - it must have something to do with those nostalgia glasses I never bought.

Speaking of accountability - Langs addresses the media - points the finger DIRECTLY at himself and his personal play (i.e. accountability) and many here flame him. When has Elias ever mentioned his personal play and made himself accountable for it? Or is he just in the habit of pointing the finger at guys that make the same salary as him for their lapses?

No DIG, my argument isn't "Elias is a poopyhead too" - its that Elias is NOT the leader of this team, and at $6M of our cap space if he doesn't start producing I could care less what he says or what he did in the past. If I could move him for space I would - tomorrow. As nice of a guy as he is he's aging and overpaid - and that is a liability in todays NHL. It was the same with Brylin, with Holik, with Madden, and with the rest of our old friends. The future is right around the corner and Elias still has minimal trade attraction.

He is no longer the best 2-way player on this team.

He is no longer the best defensive forward here (nor should we be paying $6M for a defensive forward)

He is no longer an elite sniper worth his contract.

The past 4 years have been about finding the right center for him (Zubrus, Rolston, Arnott) nothing has worked enough to validate that its not an Elias-related issue vs. "being surrounded by elite players"

Unless he shows me that he still can be worth anywhere close to what he is paid he is perfect trade material to make room for the future.

1.I didn't know that the Habs played in the Olympics

2. Trade threads on other boards concerning Langs? What's their ideas, we're listening.

3. I often accept responsibility for myself when my work isn't up to par. At the very least it makes you look good.

[DevilinLA]

We get it, nobody can be criticized before Elias because Elias is the worst. He's been effectively the teams top or second best point getter, when playing, for the past decade, including the past 4 years. He plays wing or center, whichever the team asks, he plays PP and PK, he had a coach that obviously had it out for him from day 1 in Sutter, and he's played through a debilitating disease.

Elias has obviously been the biggest problem and should be brought up as being a huge issue whenever Langenbrunner is criticized.

Thats not what I am saying.

You have a mid-thirties guy not producing @ his $6M salary worth for 2 more years.

You have a mid-thirties guy with proven production w/2 linemates @ $2.8M who is gone after this year.

You are in salary cap hell with young players to resign, glaring holes on D, and a goaltender w/max 2 years left in the tank.

You seriously don't look at your biggest salary players to see if its worthwhile to keep them (or entertain the ideas of what could be had in return)?

Its business, purely business, big earners at companies whose roles seem replaceable by less expensive options are a target - especially aging ones in sports.

It has nothing to do with emotion or nostalgia.

Rolston is in this discussion but it seems plausible that he is unmovable.

1.I didn't know that the Habs played in the Olympics

2. Trade threads on other boards concerning Langs? What's their ideas, we're listening.

3. I often accept responsibility for myself when my work isn't up to par. At the very least it makes you look good.

... and you are busting my balls for a spelling error?

Edited December 2, 2010 by DevilinLA

[CarpathianForest]

You're calling the Canadians the Canadiens is more of a mis-attribution than a spelling error within the context that I quoted you. BTW I am the unofficial spelling nerd of the forum which means I have to break balls even in jest.

[DevilinLA]

You're calling the Canadians the Canadiens is more of a mis-attribution than a spelling error within the context that I quoted you. BTW I am the unofficial spelling nerd of the forum which means I have to break balls even in jest.

Good to know. If Microsoft Word fails me its nice to know I've got a good backup.

Edited December 2, 2010 by DevilinLA

[CRASHER]

BTW I am the unofficial spelling nerd of the forum which means I have to break balls even in jest.

THIS is a fellow who needs to meet and get to know red and get to him him REALLY well

[DaneykoIsGod]

He HAS quit on the team before. Hello playoffs since 2006? Invisible $6 MILLION DOLLAR man.

Quitting is what happened when Langenbrunner threw a hissy fit and mailed it in for half a season plus playoffs.

Struggling is when someone is trying but coming up short, and that's what Elias and most of the rest of the team has been doing in the playoffs since 2006 (or 2003, for that matter).

Learn the difference. I'm struggling to get this point through your skull. It doesn't mean that I've quit on anything. I'm just trying and not succeeding. Stop acting like "quitting" and "struggling" are the same thing. Please. For the sake of Webster and his beloved dictionary.

As far as leading this guy was "CAPTAN AMERICA" here 6 months ago - how quickly we forget the avatars, sigs, and photoshopped paraphernalia eh? And at least he led that team (which was predicted to do little against the mighty Canadiens and Russians) to a gold medal round. What did the Elias-led Czech team do again?

Credit for the U.S. Olympic team's success should go to Ryan Miller, not the third/fourth line winger.

And, for the record, I BADLY wanted a Langenbrunner Team U.S.A. jersey. My girlfriend was even about to order one for me for my birthday. But then he threw that hissy fit. I got a phone instead.

The only reputation Langs has around the league is a good player and good leader at a decent price. Check any board or hockey site and if there is a LANGS trade theory - the word "leadership" will be nearby.

Oh, come on. It's said on interwebs message boards so it must be true? Do a quick Google search for the words "Langenbrunner" and "whiner" and see what else is being said about him.

Whiner? Who has been the media voice as of late whining about the coaching, Kovy, the vets - I'll give you a hint - it has a Czech accent. Oh wait - thats accountability - sorry I get it confused - it must have something to do with those nostalgia glasses I never bought.

It has nothing to do with nostalgia glasses, but thanks for the smugness. It has to do with reading comprehension. Just because it's a quote in the paper doesn't mean it's whining.

Speaking of accountability - Langs addresses the media - points the finger DIRECTLY at himself and his personal play (i.e. accountability) and many here flame him. When has Elias ever mentioned his personal play and made himself accountable for it? Or is he just in the habit of pointing the finger at guys that make the same salary as him for their lapses?

When Elias first opened his mouth this season, I was among the first to lump him in with the rest of the Devils "Coach Killers". Then a later story clarified what he was saying, and he wasn't criticizing anyone, wasn't pointing out any blame, just stating fact that sometimes it takes a while for unfamiliar players to learn a new system.

Moral of the story: It's OK to admit when you're wrong. (nudge nudge)

No DIG, my argument isn't "Elias is a poopyhead too" - its that Elias is NOT the leader of this team, and at $6M of our cap space if he doesn't start producing I could care less what he says or what he did in the past. If I could move him for space I would - tomorrow. As nice of a guy as he is he's aging and overpaid - and that is a liability in todays NHL. It was the same with Brylin, with Holik, with Madden, and with the rest of our old friends. The future is right around the corner and Elias still has minimal trade attraction.

He leads the team in points and called a team meeting (which Langenbrunner needed the coach he hated so much's help to do last year). What else do you want?

He is no longer the best 2-way player on this team.

He is no longer the best defensive forward here (nor should we be paying $6M for a defensive forward)

He is no longer an elite sniper worth his contract.

The past 4 years have been about finding the right center for him (Zubrus, Rolston, Arnott) nothing has worked enough to validate that its not an Elias-related issue vs. "being surrounded by elite players"

The argument could be made that Zubrus is the team's best two-way forward right now. It isn't an easy argument, though. The argument for Elias is very strong. I can't think of anyone else who even belongs in the conversation (excluding Parise due to injury).

The best defensive forward on the team, IMO, is Zajac. But that's a moot point because Elias was NEVER really the best defensive forward. Not with guys like Carpenter, Holik, Madden and Pandolfo around his whole career. Generally, to "no longer" be something means one was that thing at some point.

He was also never really a sniper. He's always been a playmaker with stick skills. He never was a guy who picked corners, which is generally what is considered a "sniper". If you meant "goal scorer", you'd have a better point. Not a good point. Just better than the nothing you're bringing here. Go ahead and look up his goal totals. Only Parise (and during the "Hands-Off" years, Gionta) have put up better goals-per-game numbers than Patty in the last many, many years.

The past four years have been about finding someone to work with him because everyone he works well with leaves. Arnott? Traded. Gomez? Sellout. The A-Line and EGG line were two of the most productive lines in franchise history, and they had one common element ... Patty. But forget about that nostalgia. During that four-year chemistry search where you make it seem like he was such a detriment to the team, he was still #1 or #2 on the team in points per game. Look it up.

Unless he shows me that he still can be worth anywhere close to what he is paid he is perfect trade material to make room for the future.

HE LEADS THE TEAM IN POINTS!!!!! What else can he do to prove current worth, build schools and fight terrorism?

This Langenbrunner-Elias comparison is ridiculous.

Langs (one more time) quit on his coach, quit on his team, failed to motivate himself for the playoffs and has a reputation as a whiner.

Elias's greatest sins are seeing linemates leave, getting older, saying things that are true and earning a big payday after playing out-of-his-mind hockey shortly after crawling out of a Hep A death bed. As for his reputation? The captain of our orange-clad rivals recently said Elias "has a done a lot in this league and is well respected" and basically got him to change the way he plays the game by only saying a few words to him. I'll take that to the bank before message board talk.

[Devils Pride 26]

DinLA playing favorites is starting to get real old real fast

[DevilinLA]

Quitting is what happened when Langenbrunner threw a hissy fit and mailed it in for half a season plus playoffs.

Struggling is when someone is trying but coming up short, and that's what Elias and most of the rest of the team has been doing in the playoffs since 2006 (or 2003, for that matter).

Learn the difference. I'm struggling to get this point through your skull. It doesn't mean that I've quit on anything. I'm just trying and not succeeding. Stop acting like "quitting" and "struggling" are the same thing. Please. For the sake of Webster and his beloved dictionary.

Credit for the U.S. Olympic team's success should go to Ryan Miller, not the third/fourth line winger.

And, for the record, I BADLY wanted a Langenbrunner Team U.S.A. jersey. My girlfriend was even about to order one for me for my birthday. But then he threw that hissy fit. I got a phone instead.

Oh, come on. It's said on interwebs message boards so it must be true? Do a quick Google search for the words "Langenbrunner" and "whiner" and see what else is being said about him.

It has nothing to do with nostalgia glasses, but thanks for the smugness. It has to do with reading comprehension. Just because it's a quote in the paper doesn't mean it's whining.

When Elias first opened his mouth this season, I was among the first to lump him in with the rest of the Devils "Coach Killers". Then a later story clarified what he was saying, and he wasn't criticizing anyone, wasn't pointing out any blame, just stating fact that sometimes it takes a while for unfamiliar players to learn a new system.

Moral of the story: It's OK to admit when you're wrong. (nudge nudge)

He leads the team in points and called a team meeting (which Langenbrunner needed the coach he hated so much's help to do last year). What else do you want?

The argument could be made that Zubrus is the team's best two-way forward right now. It isn't an easy argument, though. The argument for Elias is very strong. I can't think of anyone else who even belongs in the conversation (excluding Parise due to injury).

The best defensive forward on the team, IMO, is Zajac. But that's a moot point because Elias was NEVER really the best defensive forward. Not with guys like Carpenter, Holik, Madden and Pandolfo around his whole career. Generally, to "no longer" be something means one was that thing at some point.

He was also never really a sniper. He's always been a playmaker with stick skills. He never was a guy who picked corners, which is generally what is considered a "sniper". If you meant "goal scorer", you'd have a better point. Not a good point. Just better than the nothing you're bringing here. Go ahead and look up his goal totals. Only Parise (and during the "Hands-Off" years, Gionta) have put up better goals-per-game numbers than Patty in the last many, many years.

The past four years have been about finding someone to work with him because everyone he works well with leaves. Arnott? Traded. Gomez? Sellout. The A-Line and EGG line were two of the most productive lines in franchise history, and they had one common element ... Patty. But forget about that nostalgia. During that four-year chemistry search where you make it seem like he was such a detriment to the team, he was still #1 or #2 on the team in points per game. Look it up.

HE LEADS THE TEAM IN POINTS!!!!! What else can he do to prove current worth, build schools and fight terrorism?

This Langenbrunner-Elias comparison is ridiculous.

Langs (one more time) quit on his coach, quit on his team, failed to motivate himself for the playoffs and has a reputation as a whiner.

Elias's greatest sins are seeing linemates leave, getting older, saying things that are true and earning a big payday after playing out-of-his-mind hockey shortly after crawling out of a Hep A death bed. As for his reputation? The captain of our orange-clad rivals recently said Elias "has a done a lot in this league and is well respected" and basically got him to change the way he plays the game by only saying a few words to him. I'll take that to the bank before message board talk.

DIG as much respect as I have for your opinion, I still respectfully disagree.

Quitting vs. Struggling are all in a fan's eye.

One cannot in absolute certainty define what effort a player is putting in. Here is where some force will force the "watch him play" speech on me - to which I reply that many folks let the media affect their opinion - especially since no one knows what state of health a player was in or what was said in a locker room.

Truth is we are not skating with this guys and we will never know.

I don't buy the pro athletes who are captains of their respective teams going after the pinnacle trophy of their sport consciously "quit" (especially after the emotion he visibly showed at last season's epic loss). Marty has had zero post-season success has he struggled or quit? Are you in his head?

I get that you and other read the media quotes and forever more he will be a quitter and whiner for every moment on the ice until the day he is traded. Those media articles color opinion.

I'm sorry this guy has said enough to prove that he's not just out there skating because there are no good movies at the theater - plus he's in a contract year. If he truly quit he couldy easily just shut his mouth and wait for a plane ticket.

Regarding the "known throughout the league" - you brought up this point - hence my web reference that many followers of the sport think enough to associate him with leadership. Apparently Burke thought enough of him to make him a captain - especially with many other vets on that team.

Regards to Elias:

Lastly, for the record, I never said Elias - single-handedly was a detriment to this team.

Elias's contribution and legacy to the Devils is to be respected and well-documented.

I'm talking ELIAS 2010 now - value to dollar.

ANY aging player at his salary must be looked at relative to production and analyzed as to whether its time to cut bait - especially when said team is in cap hell. Purely Elias's age and salary makes him a target when the numbers aren't there. If I can assets for him - I consider it - I may not pull the trigger - but he is not, by far, untouchable.

Edited December 3, 2010 by DevilinLA

[ThreeCups]

The past four years have been about finding someone to work with him because everyone he works well with leaves. Arnott? Traded. Gomez? Sellout. The A-Line and EGG line were two of the most productive lines in franchise history, and they had one common element ... Patty. But forget about that nostalgia. During that four-year chemistry search where you make it seem like he was such a detriment to the team, he was still #1 or #2 on the team in points per game. Look it up.

HE LEADS THE TEAM IN POINTS!!!!! What else can he do to prove current worth, build schools and fight terrorism?

This Langenbrunner-Elias comparison is ridiculous.

Langs (one more time) quit on his coach, quit on his team, failed to motivate himself for the playoffs and has a reputation as a whiner.

Elias's greatest sins are seeing linemates leave, getting older, saying things that are true and earning a big payday after playing out-of-his-mind hockey shortly after crawling out of a Hep A death bed. As for his reputation? The captain of our orange-clad rivals recently said Elias "has a done a lot in this league and is well respected" and basically got him to change the way he plays the game by only saying a few words to him. I'll take that to the bank before message board talk.

Well said. The DinLA anti-Elias stances is laughable...give it up man. Patty is a Devils legend, and still getting it done. End of story. Lags is one of your favorites, but he is basically useless....

[DevilinLA]

Well said. The DinLA anti-Elias stances is laughable...give it up man. Patty is a Devils legend, and still getting it done. End of story. Lags is one of your favorites, but he is basically useless....

Getting what done? Where was his majesty tonight - watching highlights from 2000 cup run?

At this point both guys are equally suspect - its the guy making $6M who is a larger target taking up space.

- but I get it - lets remember the good 'ol days, a legend....

BTW - is Andy Greene a write-in for the ALL STAR game yet? Where did the Greene-wagon go?

[ThreeCups]

Getting what done? Where was his majesty tonight - watching highlights from 2000 cup run?

At this point both guys are equally suspect - its the guy making $6M who is a larger target taking up space.

- but I get it - lets remember the good 'ol days, a legend....

BTW - is Andy Greene a write-in for the ALL STAR game yet? Where did the Greene-wagon go?

"Equally suspect"? Are you nuts? It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that Elias is still a way all around better player than Lags. The whole team has been terrible this year, and Patty has been playing decently. Greene was a flash in the pan apparently, Elias has a career track record to go on...I am not sure what that has to do with anything, as they say, APPLES AND ORANGES.

[chrisg19]

I don't dislike either player, Elias or Langs, but truth is neither is playing well right now, and both need to step up their play. If Lou were able to deal either, and I am not so sure that will be an easy prospect, than no question I would trade Langs. The sh!t he pulled last year is enough for me, and the truth is his stats benefitted enormously from playing with two very talented linemates the past few years. When they struggle he disappears. As for Elias, yes he leads the team in points, but really that's not saying much as his point total on virtually any other team in the league would be mediocre. For the salary he is making he needs to do more. I agree he is more of a playmaker than goal scorer, but then we have an "elite" goal scorer on our roster, seems they would be a natural fit, but no. I realize they are both left wingers, but Elias is a decent center, and you would think those two could find a way to mesh.

Bottom line both need to play better.

[ThreeCups]

Bottom line Elias is a Devils legend, and can still perform at a decent level. He can play any and all roles asked of him. Very versatile, and is definitely a leader/player the younger guys look up to.

[NJDevs4978]

Well let's be honest about one thing, Elias has $18 million left on his contract and a NMC, Jamie has $2 million left and a limited NTC. Which one's gonna be easier to move? Even given the fact that Elias has played better than Jamie.

Nobody can deny the room needs a cleansing though, this team's stunk like rotten food for almost a whole calendar year now. The biggest change you can make in the room is getting rid of the captain. The captain of a sinking ship ain't worth too much to keep around.

Edited December 3, 2010 by NJDevs4978

[Jerrydevil]

I agree he is more of a playmaker than goal scorer, but then we have an "elite" goal scorer on our roster, seems they would be a natural fit, but no. I realize they are both left wingers, but Elias is a decent center, and you would think those two could find a way to mesh.

This is a point with which I agree 100%. I'm not much interested in excuses for anybody. I give Elias credit for addressing the media and being a leader. But that's about it. He's mostly mediocre to terrible on the ice.

[Elias26]

“They were ready,” Langenbrunner said. “We weren’t.”

[Jerrydevil]

“They were ready,” Langenbrunner said. “We weren’t.”

Yeah, that quote bugs me.

[ThreeCups]

This is a point with which I agree 100%. I'm not much interested in excuses for anybody. I give Elias credit for addressing the media and being a leader. But that's about it. He's mostly mediocre to terrible on the ice.

I guess leading the team in points is "mediocre to terrible". He is having a down year, but who isn't? I would love to hear what you say about the OTHER players

[Jerrydevil]

I guess leading the team in points is "mediocre to terrible". He is having a down year, but who isn't? I would love to hear what you say about the OTHER players

I don't have much nice to say about anybody, including the coach who is in over his head. Tedenby is making good on his opportunity. And Zubrus has helped his chances of getting traded to a contender with his consistent effort. Stephen Gionta can tell his grandkids one day that he got a cup of coffee in the NHL.

[RowdyFan42]

I don't know why you guys continue to feed DevilinLA. He used to be a quality poster, but this year his single-minded hatred for Elias has placed him squarely in LucifersDog/MantaRay territory.

[chrisg19]

Elias is leading the team in points at a blistering .6 points per game. He is on pace for an eye popping 49 points. Sorry that is pretty mediocre for a $6 mil a year player.