Martin Brodeur - 2 years $9 million

[Satans Hockey]

yea but he'd bust through the floor.

This makes Chico sad

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

A 2 year contract for $9 million will NOT weigh this team down:

I think the consensus at NJDevs is the Devils are no longer going to be a team that spends to the cap. Basically Every contract will weigh them down if the money's not going toward fielding the best hockey team possible at the money JVB whoever is willing to spend. Brodeur's contract is not about hockey, it's about marketing. Unless he becomes BETTER over the next two years the contract will hurt the Devils. If he becomes worse it could be abysmal.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Yea, but he'd help us make the cap floor!

Oh absolutely, my point exactly. I revered him as a youngster and as I get older I think I have started to appreciate why I liked him so much. For awhile I had started to think of him as a sort of lovable loser, but as I got a bit older I realized that that wasn't really fair. While he played for losing teams, and he was very personable, he was hardly a loser. Most goalies would have crumbled under the peppering he took. Shoot, Alain Chevrier played for a Devils team that was improving and yet put up poorer numbers. started to put things into perspective for me.

Btw, I owe you a reply from a few weeks back. My apologies. We had a nice debate going and I rather dropped the ball. I have two newborns and am trying to finish a house renovation, so I tend to just disappear at times. Anyway, my apologies and I will respond ASAP.

Don't want to derail the thread, but I have a DVD of a Rockies-Blues game from January 1982 (the Rockies' last season in Colorado). Chico was featured in a pre-recorded interview between the second and third periods. Everything you need to know about Chico the player and Chico the person is in that interview...you could tell he knew he was playing for a mess of a franchise that was going in a million different directions, but he was staying as positive as possible. He was clearly willing to shoulder as much of the responsibility as he could, basically saying that, for the Rockies to have any chance to win, it had to start with him and his play. Keep in mind how tough it must have been, going from an awesome and stacked Islander team to a Rockies team that had no chance, was clearly not going to be in Colorado much longer, and wasn't drawing much more than 8000 fans per game, tops. And he admitted in the interview that the constant spectre of the team moving was weighing on the team's minds...though NJ was the most-mentioned destination, several others were noted as well, and the players simply had no idea what was going to happen when. Chico made it clear that the players had no business feeling sorry for themselves, that other teams weren't going to feel sorry for them, and that it was on the Rocky players to pull together and not let their imminent move become a distraction. Came across as a real stand-up guy in that interview...I was a fan of his before, but even moreso now.

[Triumph]

I think the consensus at NJDevs is the Devils are no longer going to be a team that spends to the cap. Basically Every contract will weigh them down if the money's not going toward fielding the best hockey team possible at the money JVB whoever is willing to spend. Brodeur's contract is not about hockey, it's about marketing. Unless he becomes BETTER over the next two years the contract will hurt the Devils. If he becomes worse it could be abysmal.

Yeah, this. I mean, yes, even at 4.5M, Brodeur is one of the lowest paid starting goalies in the NHL. Still, he's been one of the worst starting goalies over the last two years.

[nyrsuck26]

Good contract if you ask me. It's less money than he used to make, which it should be, and may be slightly more than what you'd like to give him, but he's one of the best ever, and you gotta give him what he wants.

[Mindcrime30]

A 2 year contract for $9 million will NOT weigh this team down:

- They're still almost $20 million under the cap for 12-13.

- They're still almost $5 million UNDER the cap floor, which must be met regardless of the financial problems.

- There's the potential for another $20 million to come off the books next year for UFA's (Elias, Zajac, Zubrus, Clarkson, Zidlicky, Janssen, Harrold). Obviously we'd want some of them resigned, but the payroll room is there if needed.

Thats a real backwards way of thinking if you ask me. Making the cap floor or not Marty's simply noy worth 4.5 million a year now, it will be even worse next year,

If someone gave me 5 bucks to buy candy and I HAD to spend it to reach the candy spending floor I wouldnt just overpay for a Hershey bar and call it quits, Id spend the 5 bucks in the most effective way possible to get value for my 5 bucks

Silly analogy, but all this talk of spending a little extra to reach the floor is foolish when you can get extra players with that money

[devs82fan]

yay! brodeur is back!

[Devil Dan 56]

Thats a real backwards way of thinking if you ask me. Making the cap floor or not Marty's simply noy worth 4.5 million a year now, it will be even worse next year,

If someone gave me 5 bucks to buy candy and I HAD to spend it to reach the candy spending floor I wouldnt just overpay for a Hershey bar and call it quits, Id spend the 5 bucks in the most effective way possible to get value for my 5 bucks

Silly analogy, but all this talk of spending a little extra to reach the floor is foolish when you can get extra players with that money

They signed the best 2 goalies on the free agent market.

[Triumph]

They signed the best 2 goalies on the free agent market.

They signed them both for 2 years to an age where almost no goaltenders have been league average. This is entirely too reductive a way to look at it.

[ghdi]

Thats a real backwards way of thinking if you ask me. Making the cap floor or not Marty's simply noy worth 4.5 million a year now, it will be even worse next year,

If someone gave me 5 bucks to buy candy and I HAD to spend it to reach the candy spending floor I wouldnt just overpay for a Hershey bar and call it quits, Id spend the 5 bucks in the most effective way possible to get value for my 5 bucks

Silly analogy, but all this talk of spending a little extra to reach the floor is foolish when you can get extra players with that money

Here's what I dont get about this logic.

Who would they spend this money on instead? What extra players? Had we let Marty walk, would you be comfortable with Hedberg starting all year? Who would have been the backup? These are rhetorical, but I only see more questions than answers in not keeping Marty. He had a good 2nd half and a good playoffs and there's no reason to believe (as of now) that he can't continue that. Instead they overpaid (in terms of years, he probably got only a million more than he shouldve) arguably the most important player this franchise has ever known and it all but assures that he will finish his career here. That makes the contract worth it to me. Its more than just Xs and Os. Its not like we went out and spent it on a guy who had never been here before and was an unknown quantity in terms of how he'd react to playing in NJ/chemistry/etc. There also was pretty much garbage on the UFA goaltender market outside of our two. I certainly wouldnt want to go in blind with a kid who had barely if not ever seen the NHL before or get fleeced in a trade for a Bernier-type.

We also don't have any idea what the internal cap is. This signing may not handicap us in terms of what we're able to do. Clearly, we have financial issues, but we just don't know exactly what we can or cannot do.

[capo]

Here's what I dont get about this logic.

Who would they spend this money on instead? What extra players? Had we let Marty walk, would you be comfortable with Hedberg starting all year? Who would have been the backup? These are rhetorical, but I only see more questions than answers in not keeping Marty. He had a good 2nd half and a good playoffs and there's no reason to believe (as of now) that he can't continue that. Instead they overpaid (in terms of years, he probably got only a million more than he shouldve) arguably the most important player this franchise has ever known and it all but assures that he will finish his career here. That makes the contract worth it to me. Its more than just Xs and Os. Its not like we went out and spent it on a guy who had never been here before and was an unknown quantity in terms of how he'd react to playing in NJ/chemistry/etc. There also was pretty much garbage on the UFA goaltender market outside of our two. I certainly wouldnt want to go in blind with a kid who had barely if not ever seen the NHL before or get fleeced in a trade for a Bernier-type.

We also don't have any idea what the internal cap is. This signing may not handicap us in terms of what we're able to do. Clearly, we have financial issues, but we just don't know exactly what we can or cannot do.

sums it up.

[Devil Dan 56]

They signed them both for 2 years to an age where almost no goaltenders have been league average. This is entirely too reductive a way to look at it.

There was not much option. Both players wanted 2 years, and while Lou could have played hardball with a 1 year offer and tried calling their bluffs things could have gotten messy. Suddenly, our top goalie is Jeff Frazee and every team in the league knows they have Lou over a barrel.

[NJDevs4978]

There was not much option. Both players wanted 2 years, and while Lou could have played hardball with a 1 year offer and tried calling their bluffs things could have gotten messy. Suddenly, our top goalie is Jeff Frazee and every team in the league knows they have Lou over a barrel.

Pretty much, it was an imperfect storm. Marty said he would have been willing to take one year if not for the threat of the lockout so he needed to use FA to get two. Moose needed a two-year deal to feel comfortable moving his family cause he didn't want to be away from them again, and like Marty did have multiple teams offering two years.

Plus they might lose Parise, they absolutely could not afford to lose him AND Marty in the same offseason PR-wise. And Moose is an important mentor for the young Swedes on the team and well-respected in the locker room.

Edited July 3, 2012 by NJDevs4978

[SterioDesign]

re-signing both goalies for 2 years guarantee that they'll have to replace them both at the same time but seems like there will be some potential interesting options on the market at that time. Lundqvist, miller, hiller, halak, elliot, clemmenson... or by then Wedgewood or Kinkaid may be good to go. For all we know we may have the next "Quick/Bernier" young duo in our system and we don't know yet, you just never know with goalies.

kinda wish one of the kid could have step behind a veteran goalie in NJ. (not a signed free agent but an established vet in the organization i mean) but wtvvv we'll cross that bridge when we get to it

edit: actually looking at the goalies market in 2 years its way better than next summer so we may as well get behind our ol' farts goalies for now and wish for the best. Next years UFA's goalies... Backstrom, thomas, khabibulin, lehthonen, nabokov, howard, smith, theo, garon, giguere....

Edited July 3, 2012 by SterioDesign

[Guest BelieveinBrodeur]

Getting WedgeWood and KinKaid more time to develop, sounds good

[ThreeCups]

re-signing both goalies for 2 years guarantee that they'll have to replace them both at the same time but seems like there will be some potential interesting options on the market at that time. Lundqvist, miller, hiller, halak, elliot, clemmenson... or by then Wedgewood or Kinkaid may be good to go. For all we know we may have the next "Quick/Bernier" young duo in our system and we don't know yet, you just never know with goalies.

kinda wish one of the kid could have step behind a veteran goalie in NJ. (not a signed free agent but an established vet in the organization i mean) but wtvvv we'll cross that bridge when we get to it

edit: actually looking at the goalies market in 2 years its way better than next summer so we may as well get behind our ol' farts goalies for now and wish for the best. Next years UFA's goalies... Backstrom, thomas, khabibulin, lehthonen, nabokov, howard, smith, theo, garon, giguere....

Don't be surprised in 2 years when Marty holds the Devils hostage for one more year. (assuming he plays decent over the next 2 years)

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Don't be surprised in 2 years when Marty holds the Devils hostage for one more year. (assuming he plays decent over the next 2 years)

Way too hard to predict where Marty and the Devils will be in a couple of years. Too many potential scenarios. Not sure how much of a position Marty will be in to hold the Devils hostage...not exactly a big market for 42-year-old goalies. And if the last two seasons are any indication, his overall play won't be so mindblowing that teams will be falling over themselves to sign him.

[Devs3cups]

Not too thrilled with the cap hit, but at least he'll likely retire as a devil.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Devs3cups

[CaptainRafalski]

Well, I don't see any other goalie combination out there who can play as well as Hedberg and Broduer can and if any of the young guys are not ready then I don't see a problem.

Its not like there is some vast talent pool of NHL ready goalies out there.

[devils26]

I think the Devils would finish out of the playoffs and would ruin a prospect in the process.

Although it's obvious now that Hedberg won't be the starter, do you really think that he is worse than Marty at this point? Marty's SV% over the last three years has been .908, .903, .916. In comparison, Hedberg has been at .918, .912, .915. At this stage in their careers I don't think there is much of a difference between the two; Hedberg may even be better.

[Devil Dan 56]

Although it's obvious now that Hedberg won't be the starter, do you really think that he is worse than Marty at this point? Marty's SV% over the last three years has been .908, .903, .916. In comparison, Hedberg has been at .918, .912, .915. At this stage in their careers I don't think there is much of a difference between the two; Hedberg may even be better.

Except Hedberg has never been relied on as a starter in the NHL. He has played more than 50 games once in his career, which was for a terrible Pittsburgh team. He hit 47 one year for Atlanta. If you look at stretches where he had to play multiple games in a row last season, he would start out hot and cool down. He plays much better in relief, which is what makes him a perfect back-up goaltender.

[devils26]

Except Hedberg has never been relied on as a starter in the NHL. He has played more than 50 games once in his career, which was for a terrible Pittsburgh team. He hit 47 one year for Atlanta. If you look at stretches where he had to play multiple games in a row last season, he would start out hot and cool down. He plays much better in relief, which is what makes him a perfect back-up goaltender.

You touched on it but in 2009 he started over half of Atlanta's games and put up a .915 SV%. I don't think it's fair to look at a few stretches where he played consecutive games and then use that small sample size to decide that he's incapable of being a starting goalie. If anything, I'd say his ability to be a starting goalie is unknown. What stretches are you referring to where Hedberg played multiple games?

[Devil Dan 56]

You touched on it but in 2009 he started over half of Atlanta's games and put up a .915 SV%. I don't think it's fair to look at a few stretches where he played consecutive games and then use that small sample size to decide that he's incapable of being a starting goalie. If anything, I'd say his ability to be a starting goalie is unknown. What stretches are you referring to where Hedberg played multiple games?

I was basing it more on his career to this point. His games played are: 9, 66, 41, 21, 19, 21, 36, 33, 47, 34, 27. He couldn't clinch a starting spot, and I feel like there must be a reason. For example, he was the starter that year with 66 starts. The back up was JS Aubin, who was awful that year (as was the entire Penguins team). The next year, Sebastien Caron came in and pushed him out of the spot. Then he backed up Dan Cloutier in Vancouver, Marty Turco in Dallas, and Kari Lehtonen in Atlanta. That 2009 season, he was the starter over Ondrej Pavelec as Pavelec eased into the starting role. It just looks to me like he's found his niche.

As for the stretches, I was referring to when Marty first got hurt in October against LA. Moose took over and was very, very strong, but seemed to slow down as we got into late October, early November. He got some time off when Marty returned and then came back with a shutout. Then he was sort of a mixed bag... great games and poor games mixed together as Marty was struggling in December. When he and Marty got into a rhythm at the end of the season, Moose was outstanding. I don't trust any of our prospects to be able to handle half a season right off the bat. Even if Moose could do 60 games hypothetically, I wouldn't want to see 22 games of Kinkaid or Frazee with no safety net. I think Marty and Moose make a pretty perfect combination.

[devils26]

I was basing it more on his career to this point. His games played are: 9, 66, 41, 21, 19, 21, 36, 33, 47, 34, 27. He couldn't clinch a starting spot, and I feel like there must be a reason. For example, he was the starter that year with 66 starts. The back up was JS Aubin, who was awful that year (as was the entire Penguins team). The next year, Sebastien Caron came in and pushed him out of the spot. Then he backed up Dan Cloutier in Vancouver, Marty Turco in Dallas, and Kari Lehtonen in Atlanta. That 2009 season, he was the starter over Ondrej Pavelec as Pavelec eased into the starting role. It just looks to me like he's found his niche.

As for the stretches, I was referring to when Marty first got hurt in October against LA. Moose took over and was very, very strong, but seemed to slow down as we got into late October, early November. He got some time off when Marty returned and then came back with a shutout. Then he was sort of a mixed bag... great games and poor games mixed together as Marty was struggling in December. When he and Marty got into a rhythm at the end of the season, Moose was outstanding. I don't trust any of our prospects to be able to handle half a season right off the bat. Even if Moose could do 60 games hypothetically, I wouldn't want to see 22 games of Kinkaid or Frazee with no safety net. I think Marty and Moose make a pretty perfect combination.

You say that "He couldn't clinch a starting spot, and I feel like there must be a reason," but we don't know enough about the inner-workings of the teams he played on to make a fair assumption. If you look at the SV% early in his career, you'll see that he could barely keep it above .900 despite playing on a variety of teams. Perhaps this means that Moose just wasn't very good early in his career, and that's why he couldn't hold down a starting role. I know it may be a crazy suggestion, but what if he has actually improved with age? This is an honest question: how would you explain the positive jump in SV%? Yes, he performs well as a backup, but I don't think there's enough evidence to say he couldn't handle 60 games a year at this point in his career. Yes, we can make assumptions, but something changed for Johan later in his career.

I agree that Moose was very inconsistent early in the season, but isn't that exactly what Marty was? And yet that was good enough to keep us in the playoff hunt. As for Frazee and Kinkaid, are they even considered prospects anymore? Didn't they both have boatloads of trouble? The point is moot now but we probably would have been better off signing a cheap backup.

[Devil Dan 56]

You say that "He couldn't clinch a starting spot, and I feel like there must be a reason," but we don't know enough about the inner-workings of the teams he played on to make a fair assumption. If you look at the SV% early in his career, you'll see that he could barely keep it above .900 despite playing on a variety of teams. Perhaps this means that Moose just wasn't very good early in his career, and that's why he couldn't hold down a starting role. I know it may be a crazy suggestion, but what if he has actually improved with age? This is an honest question: how would you explain the positive jump in SV%? Yes, he performs well as a backup, but I don't think there's enough evidence to say he couldn't handle 60 games a year at this point in his career. Yes, we can make assumptions, but something changed for Johan later in his career.

I agree that Moose was very inconsistent early in the season, but isn't that exactly what Marty was? And yet that was good enough to keep us in the playoff hunt. As for Frazee and Kinkaid, are they even considered prospects anymore? Didn't they both have boatloads of trouble? The point is moot now but we probably would have been better off signing a cheap backup.

You are definitely right that it's possible that Moose has improved as he's aged. I just think that it's a huge risk to take with out much to help you if it fails. They would need a 1A 1B situation for Moose to start. The only players on the market who may be able to do that are Niittymaki, Ellis, Conklin, Raycroft, Montoya, and Johnson. Looking at those names, I'd rather just have Marty and Moose.

As for Frazee and Kinkaid... I like Frazee alot. I love his style. It's very entertaining to watch and he's very quick. However, he gets hurt too much. After that first great season in Lowell (28 wins, .920 save % and All-Star appearance), he's only played 31, 33, and 36 games, and his GAA went up as his save % dropped. It looks like his chance has passed. Kinkaid has only played 1 AHL season and had similar numbers to Frazee, so it'll be interesting to see if he improves and by how much.