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Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!)


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Poll: Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!) (130 member(s) have cast votes)

When will we see hockey?

  1. Oct 12 (10 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  2. Nov 12 (19 votes [14.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.62%

  3. Dec 12 (26 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  4. Jan 13 (33 votes [25.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.38%

  5. Feb 13 (1 votes [0.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.77%

  6. Mar 13 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Apr 13 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Oct 13 (14 votes [10.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.77%

  9. Never (27 votes [20.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.77%

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#1321 NJDevs4978

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:24 PM

Funny how 57-43 gets seen as such an 'insult' when that's exactly the mirror of how the last CBA ended. I guess what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

57-43 was just a convenient excuse, the PA would have found another reason to wage war, a war that in fact started when realignment was blocked for no other real reason.
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#1322 newarkdev01

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:25 PM

I think Fehr brought negotiations to this point. Fehr knew he wasn't going to get the best offer(ignoring wages lost, which is a huge thing that Fehr doesn't care about) until the season was on the line. Fehr's BS proposals and media grandstanding seem obviously designed to delay and derail negotiations and so here we are. The players probably would have made more money for themselves if they had hardcore negotiated a CBA around when the season was supposed to start, but the players, and so Fehr, want to emotionally win this negotiation and the actual $$$ being made or lost were inconsequential to those emotions.

IMO, The owners wanted a deal that would have left both sides with more money than whatever they will negotiate now. Fehr wanted this to be the situation because he sees it as getting the best deal for the NHLPA written, ignoring overall income to the players.


I just have no trust in Fehr after what happened in baseball but I think the lockout was a neccesary evil from a business standpoint. The owners had a system that could not sustain itself and the players have contracts they want honored. This seems to be the core issue the whole backdrop of the lockout with everything else revovling around this.

Edited by newarkdev01, 31 December 2012 - 01:28 PM.

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#1323 NJDevs4978

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:52 PM

So apparently the PA now wants expansion fees to be counted as part of HRR lol. Another attempt to skim off the top.
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#1324 Devils731

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

So apparently the PA now wants expansion fees to be counted as part of HRR lol. Another attempt to skim off the top.


I would tell the players your expansion benefit is another 22 or so NHLPA jobs.

Maybe the players would like a cut of Concert revenue for arenas where the owners own both the team and the arena. :lol:
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#1325 Triumph

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

I think Fehr brought negotiations to this point. Fehr knew he wasn't going to get the best offer(ignoring wages lost, which is a huge thing that Fehr doesn't care about) until the season was on the line. Fehr's BS proposals and media grandstanding seem obviously designed to delay and derail negotiations and so here we are. The players probably would have made more money for themselves if they had hardcore negotiated a CBA around when the season was supposed to start, but the players, and so Fehr, want to emotionally win this negotiation and the actual $$$ being made or lost were inconsequential to those emotions.

IMO, The owners wanted a deal that would have left both sides with more money than whatever they will negotiate now. Fehr wanted this to be the situation because he sees it as getting the best deal for the NHLPA written, ignoring overall income to the players.


If players negotiated this way, for their wages only, they'd be way worse off now than they actually are. Fehr, having run a union for 25 years, understands this principle perfectly. In fact, players in the 90s probably 'lost' relative to what they would've had under a cap, but now what's the average MLB salary? $5M? It's very high, and it's because he fought against a salary cap, and MLB is a healthy league with a healthy, unbent union.

If the league wants a 10 year CBA, and I find it hard to believe they haven't wanted that all along, it makes sense for the union to drag their feet on every issue because it will affect players who are 12 years old now.

Again - find me where the league gave something to the players that they didn't have before, and I'll say 'oh okay maybe they were fools to hold out this long'

Funny how 57-43 gets seen as such an 'insult' when that's exactly the mirror of how the last CBA ended. I guess what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

57-43 was just a convenient excuse, the PA would have found another reason to wage war, a war that in fact started when realignment was blocked for no other real reason.


Hahaha. 43% is an enormous insult. I have no idea why you think 57% is fair, much less 43%. Ideally, percentages like this wouldn't be set at all, but NHL owners and GMs are too stupid to operate under such a system.

I would tell the players your expansion benefit is another 22 or so NHLPA jobs.


Why does the NHLPA want or care about 22 minimum salary jobs versus getting a piece of the league opening itself up, thereby creating the very conditions which cause the league to have to lock itself out in order to get a CBA that all the owners can tolerate?
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#1326 NJDevs4978

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

Hahaha. 43% is an enormous insult. I have no idea why you think 57% is fair, much less 43%. Ideally, percentages like this wouldn't be set at all, but NHL owners and GMs are too stupid to operate under such a system.


Whether it's fair or not is irrelevant, just that they have no right to be taking it as an 'insult' when they wound up on the long end of the exact same percentage in the last CBA. So I guess they were insulting the owners offering 57-43 at the end of the last CBA? The NBA's first offer was even worse than that lol.

If it's so ludicrous on their end, they should realize that's how the end of the last CBA looked to the owners. But it's telling you think even 57-43 for the players isn't 'fair'.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 31 December 2012 - 03:39 PM.

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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#1327 Triumph

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:00 PM

Whether it's fair or not is irrelevant, just that they have no right to be taking it as an 'insult' when they wound up on the long end of the exact same percentage in the last CBA. So I guess they were insulting the owners offering 57-43 at the end of the last CBA? The NBA's first offer was even worse than that lol.


I mean first offers are first offers, and no one cares about them today. But the NHL is making record revenues - I'd be a little insulted if I worked somewhere that was making record profits, in part because of my work, and they offered me and everyone else there 20% less money. But that's business, I don't think anyone cares about it now.

If it's so ludicrous on their end, they should realize that's how the end of the last CBA looked to the owners. But it's telling you think even 57-43 for the players isn't 'fair'.


No percentage is fair. When you cut percentages like the NHL has, what you end up doing is forcing small market teams to spend beyond their means while big market teams rake in money. And you put out of reach that money that the big market teams rake in - money they want to spend on players. And of course they don't want to just give it to other teams in revenue sharing - it's theirs! They earned it! (By enforcing a municipally-funded monopoly such that competitors can't enter their market w/o buying a franchise and paying exorbitant fees)

The owners signed every single one of those contracts that were so unfair. The players did not compel them to do so. I don't understand how you don't understand this - the percentage of revenue that players ultimately got in 2004 were the owners and GMs doing and theirs alone (beyond, of course, the CBA put in place which allowed the owners to do that).

Edited by Triumph, 31 December 2012 - 04:01 PM.

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#1328 DevilMinder

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:51 PM

Looks like bettman is publicly saying drop dead to start the games is January 19 now. So 11 or Jan 12th is negotiations deadline, plenty of time!

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#1329 SterioDesign

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 08:47 PM

I wish we could...subscribe to something and we'd just get a text or an email as soon theres an announcement about the end of the lockout
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#1330 Devilsfan118

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:22 PM

Bleacher report app for the iPhone/android will probably suffice, in that regard

I usually get relevant updates sent to me.
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#1331 NJDevs4978

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:34 PM

I wish we could...subscribe to something and we'd just get a text or an email as soon theres an announcement about the end of the lockout


I hear ya, I'm tired of refreshing Twitter and checking the boards. At least there should only be another week or so of this at most.

Of course if we do get an agreement then it's going to be another week of mass chaos as guys get signed, trades get made :lol:
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#1332 Devilsfan118

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:43 PM

Bleacher report app for the iPhone/android will probably suffice, in that regard

I usually get relevant updates sent to me.
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#1333 Triumph

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:06 PM

Kinda funny that Dfan118's post about bleacher report ended up being a double post since that site is basically a gigantic double post
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#1334 njd3b1ink

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

I just get TGs tweets sent to my phone via text message. Really convenient in my opinion. I don't spend any time on twitter and I found out right away when something happens.
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#1335 NJDevs4978

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

I just get TGs tweets sent to my phone via text message. Really convenient in my opinion. I don't spend any time on twitter and I found out right away when something happens.


Except when TG has fifty tweets in a day lol...I suspect like five minutes after the lockout ends the Devils are gonna be sending out form e-mails to sth's anyway so I probably will get a 'notification' in that way - but I still can't help but check everything else.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 01 January 2013 - 11:19 PM.

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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#1336 Devilsfan118

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:26 PM

Kinda funny that Dfan118's post about bleacher report ended up being a double post since that site is basically a gigantic double post


:lol: Yeah, bleacher report is usually crap, but I don't use twitter at all, and it usually just forwards relevant tweets to my phone.

Of course I could just avoid BR completely by downloading the twitter app but..I mean, where's the fun in that?
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#1337 Marshall

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:51 AM

I hear ya, I'm tired of refreshing Twitter and checking the boards. At least there should only be another week or so of this at most.


Yes, and since it seems to be going well, all the updates are basically nothing.
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#1338 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:15 AM

i buy in to the owners sticking to their guns until the last possible day before the cancellation, less games for more revenue makes sense at this point. i think there is a season though.
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#1339 Daniel

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

i buy in to the owners sticking to their guns until the last possible day before the cancellation, less games for more revenue makes sense at this point. i think there is a season though.


Bottom line is whatever the outcome, the owners are getting a better deal than the last CBA. This isn't 2005 where the league was circling the drain. Not worth losing a season over what is really chimp change at this point.
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#1340 newarkdev01

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:38 AM

I am just hoping that everyone keeps their heads cool and would rather make money this year than piss away another season and probably end up back at the same point in August. Ulitmately none of this is easy and you hope that both sides can respect where they are coming from and realize its just business and get back to the business of playing hockey for fans to watch.
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