GDT 7: Devils @ Senators aka first win of the season 730pm MSG+

[Derlique]

Happens to all teams eventually.  Devils missed the playoffs once from '89-'90 to '09-'10...we had it good for a long long time. 

For sure. I became a die hard in 99 so I've known nothing but success.  I don't mind having some lean years if that's what it takes to get back to the playoffs consistently.  When you don't have much success drafting/trading away draft picks, you're success is unsustainable. Makes what Detroit has going on even more special. 

 

I will say this- the Devils drafting has gotten A LOT better in the recent years

 

Larsson

Henrique

Boucher

Merrill

Severson

Gelinas

Matteau

Josefson

Santini

[DJ Eco]

Devils played well last night and probably deserved better, but Marty kind of ruined any chance of a comeback we had. Can't really get on Marty because this sort of play is unfortunately expected.  Thing is, we only scored twice and that isnt enough to get you the win most of the time.

 

We can't really say that. If Marty doesn't let in that stupid 4th goal at the absolute worst time, it was a 3 in 4 chance that the Devils were going to get the equalizer. The way they were playing, the way Ottawa started to get tired. My gripe really isn't on the offense this game at all. The pressure Marty puts on the offense early on in the first 10 minutes to even a 2-0 score and then a 3rd and then that 4th after an epic almost-comeback. That sh!t'll sap a forward's lifeblood. No different than what Schneider must have felt during the Winnipeg game.

Edited October 18, 2013 by DJ Eco

[jim777]

...............  I don't think the guys the Devils signed want to be part of some Martin Brodeur Farewell Tour. 

 

They would have had to have been extremely blinded by their contracts to NOT know the big farewell tour was coming! this isn't generic goalie we're talking about here.

[thecoffeecake]

I completely agree that brodeur has become incapable. My argument the last couple of years was that his style allowed a lot of soft looking goals, but he made a lot of easy saves in situations where other goalies would be sprawled out on their stomachs. But this season, and especially last night, i cant even make excuses for him anymore. I personally want to see him play as much as possible, because we never will see this stand up style again. But if hes going to be this bad, just get his jersey in the rafters, Jesus.

I want Lemaire. I want the trap. This is a perfect trap team.

[Marshall]

I've never hoped so badly for a shutout vs the Rags. If Schneider puts up a dominating performance tomorrow, I hope the coaching staff sees the writing on the wall.

[Triumph]

He is incapable. He has had opportunities to do so and failed. He's a bad coach, bad talent evaluator, and bad decision maker. Fire him already.

 

Just keep thinking it's the coach that's the problem.  NJ's been a break-even team shots-wise and they haven't gotten any big saves except from Schneider.

 

They would have had to have been extremely blinded by their contracts to NOT know the big farewell tour was coming! this isn't generic goalie we're talking about here.

 

You don't get a farewell tour in pro sports unless you are good.  No one wants to see a legend be awful.

[MadDog2020]

Can't think of a better way to get the first win of the season than against the Rags, especially with yours truly in attendance. That being said, that place is going to get UGLY if the Devils don't play well. Our fans are finicky, I'm expecting boobirds from the get-go.

They may wanna hire extra security for this one... It may get ugly in the stands.

[dmann422]

I remember in 05-06 we went into almost a trap mode in games so we could get back into it. I'm not saying PDB should play more conservative, but he should review his system and tweak it a bit at least until we can rack up a few wins.

Deboes system when working should limit opponents opportunities and that was the case last night. Unfortunately Marty couldn't make the easy saves.

Whatever we did in the 2nd and 3rd last night we need to repeat every game for a full 60 mins with at least average goaltending and wins will come.

[Marv4Life]

Exactly. Before the Red Wings became a powerhouse in the 90's they had a really extended period of absolute suckage.

Except the Wings haven't missed the postseason in how long now?

[dmann422]

Just keep thinking it's the coach that's the problem. NJ's been a break-even team shots-wise and they haven't gotten any big saves except from Schneider.

It's scary how Schneider isn't getting the goal support that Marty is so far (2 goals vs 11). Not sure if it's just coincidence, but if Schneider and Marty flipped starts we probably win each of the isles oil and flames games.

[DJ Eco]

Schneider in tomorrow. Good call, DeBoer.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

You don't get a farewell tour in pro sports unless you are good.  No one wants to see a legend be awful.

 

Says it all.  No one wants to see a former great be a shell of what he was...especially his own fans.  And what makes it even worse is when that final season is as rough as it looks like it could be for Marty, a good number of fans will forget the many years that came before it, and turn on him.   

[DJ Eco]

The amount of Rangers fans that were crossing their fingers that Brodeur get the start tomorrow says it all. Schneider should be the #1.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Except the Wings haven't missed the postseason in how long now?

 

Yes, they've been good for a while NOW.  From '66-'83 they missed the playoffs 15 out of 17 seasons.  You saw the Devils make it in 18 out of 19 seasons ('89-'10), and reach five SC Finals to boot...one of them outside that 19-season window, no less, after a rough '10-'11 campaign.  The party will end for the Wings eventually, just like it does for everybody else at some point.  But there's a lot of franchises that haven't had a party in a looooooooong time.  Outside of when the Devils first came to NJ (and clearly had to build from the ground up), there hasn't been an extended stretch of futility for this franchise yet.  Wow, the Devils MAY actually miss the playoffs in three out of four seasons...always sucks to not make it, but just look at some of the teams closest to the Devils geographically:  both NY teams, Philly, Pitt, Washington...they've all had bad stretches...some of them comically so.   

 

The entitled types always think the party goes on forever, but it doesn't.  We'll take our turn in the futility barrel too.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[jim777]

 

 

You don't get a farewell tour in pro sports unless you are good.  No one wants to see a legend be awful.

 

That's flat out ridiculous, he's a living legend - exactly the kind of player that today's 12 year olds today will one day be telling their kids they got to see back when they were little.

[coldply123]

For sure. I became a die hard in 99 so I've known nothing but success. I don't mind having some lean years if that's what it takes to get back to the playoffs consistently. When you don't have much success drafting/trading away draft picks, you're success is unsustainable. Makes what Detroit has going on even more special.

I will say this- the Devils drafting has gotten A LOT better in the recent years

Larsson

Henrique

Boucher

Merrill

Severson

Gelinas

Matteau

Josefson

Santini

Come on now.

None have a verifiable sample to be able to qualify your statement aside from Henrique. Not even Josefson but so far he has not done anything. Larsson was the fourth overall pick and at this moment is being treated like he has the plague.

I can go back in time every year and find someone willing to plow some list together. Fans

always love and overhype their prospects until they see them and are disappointed.

That's flat out ridiculous, he's a living legend - exactly the kind of player that today's 12 year olds today will one day be telling their kids they got to see back when they were little.

Unfortunate for those kids they have seen some of the worst.

Schneider in tomorrow. Good call, DeBoer.

It is the only call and should we lose it may potentially be his last.

[Triumph]

That's flat out ridiculous, he's a living legend - exactly the kind of player that today's 12 year olds today will one day be telling their kids they got to see back when they were little.

 

I'm trying to think of great athletes I saw at the end of the line when I was that age and I can't really think of any.  I guess I saw Lawrence Taylor's last season, but Lawrence Taylor in highlight films is this ridiculously dominant player, and he's not that to me, because I didn't see that guy, I saw a pretty good linebacker who was past his prime.

[Mike Brown]

I think patrik Elias sums up the game and the season as a whole perfectly:

Elias is 100% correct.

[coldply123]

Just keep thinking it's the coach that's the problem. NJ's been a break-even team shots-wise and they haven't gotten any big saves except from Schneider.

You don't get a farewell tour in pro sports unless you are good. No one wants to see a legend be awful.

Brodeur and Lou are in the same boat as Deboer as to this ridiculous handling of goalies the last few yrs. Lou needs to use whatever rapport he has with Brodeur to make things clear about his role.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

That's flat out ridiculous, he's a living legend - exactly the kind of player that today's 12 year olds today will one day be telling their kids they got to see back when they were little.

 

For the balance of his career, yes.  Right now, he is clearly no longer that player.  All Tri is trying to say (and I agree with him) is that people generally don't enjoy watching former greats struggle just to be passable.  I'd like to think that all of the other current Devils on this team feel like they can compete for a playoff spot, and aren't here to be caddies to a former great.  It's not their jobs nor the Devils franchise's job to sacrifice the 2013-14 season so some 12-year-olds can say "Yeah, I got to see Martin Brodeur play at the very end of his career...it was rough, and he clearly wasn't very good anymore, but at least I got to see him." 

 

This team has to look like it's putting trying to win ahead of a victory lap...they miss the playoffs again, but at least give the impression that they were trying to get there, first and foremost.    

[jim777]

For the balance of his career, yes.  Right now, he is clearly no longer that player.  All Tri is trying to say (and I agree with him) is that people generally don't enjoy watching former greats struggle just to be passable.  I'd like to think that all of the other current Devils on this team feel like they can compete for a playoff spot, and aren't here to be caddies to a former great.  It's not their jobs nor the Devils franchise's job to sacrifice the 2013-14 season so some 12-year-olds can say "Yeah, I got to see Martin Brodeur play at the very end of his career...it was rough, and he clearly wasn't very good anymore, but at least I got to see him." 

 

This team has to look like it's putting trying to win ahead of a victory lap...they miss the playoffs again, but at least give the impression that they were trying to get there, first and foremost.    

 

It's not about whether or not people enjoy seeing him struggle or sparkle. It is almost certainly his last year in the league, and the first time in a very long time we will be playing away games against every team in the NHL. Like I said earlier, unless he starts coughing up huge amounts of goals per period he's going to play in front of those road fans so they can see him one more (last) time. Maybe not in Philly/Manhattan/LI, but everywhere else.

And Lou will assume everything is good enough until it isn't. And again, I'm not bitching about it, just saying my expectations for the year aren't high, and Marty's age isn't the only reason. It's the fact the whole damned team is too old. Anyway.........

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I'm trying to think of great athletes I saw at the end of the line when I was that age and I can't really think of any.  I guess I saw Lawrence Taylor's last season, but Lawrence Taylor in highlight films is this ridiculously dominant player, and he's not that to me, because I didn't see that guy, I saw a pretty good linebacker who was past his prime.

 

My uncle (born 1955 I think) has been a Yankee fan since birth, and he remembers Mickey Mantle's last few seasons.  Said they were pretty tough to take, though he was pretty little when Mickey was finishing out his prime years, so it's not like he had a ton of memories of Mickey's best seasons (1952-1964). 

 

Things were different back then, in terms of how faded stars were treated on their way out...towards the end, Mantle had to move to first base due to his bad knees, and in one game, a rookie decided to take advantage and bunt his way on.  When he got back to the dugout, his manager and some of his teammates immediately got on his case, basically saying "We don't ever do that to Mickey out of respect.  We don't want to make him look bad."  At the very end, an opposing pitcher said "I'm going to lob strikes down the middle of the plate, just to let him hit one out."  He even had the catcher tell Mantle how he was going to pitch him.  (I think that's how Mickey hit home run #535...his second-to-last one in the majors.) 

 

Suffice it to say shooters aren't going to ease up on Marty because they feel sorry for him, or because the Devils might not be very good (just like Mantle's last Yankee teams).  I don't think too many hardcore 12-year-old sports fans want to see teams make Marty look bad. 

[Triumph]

My uncle (born 1955 I think) has been a Yankee fan since birth, and he remembers Mickey Mantle's last few seasons.  Said they were pretty tough to take, though he was pretty little when Mickey was finishing out his prime years, so it's not like he had a ton of memories of Mickey's best seasons (1952-1964). 

 

Things were different back then, in terms of how faded stars were treated on their way out...towards the end, Mantle had to move to first base due to his bad knees, and in one game, a rookie decided to take advantage and bunt his way on.  When he got back to the dugout, his manager and some of his teammates immediately got on his case, basically saying "We don't ever do that to Mickey out of respect.  We don't want to make him look bad."  At the very end, an opposing pitcher said "I'm going to lob strikes down the middle of the plate, just to let him hit one out."  He even had the catcher tell Mantle how he was going to pitch him.  (I think that's how Mickey hit home run #535...his second-to-last one in the majors.) 

 

Suffice it to say shooters aren't going to ease up on Marty because they feel sorry for him, or because the Devils might not be very good (just like Mantle's last Yankee teams).  I don't think too many hardcore 12-year-old sports fans want to see teams make Marty look bad. 

 

Hockey's just a much different game.  There isn't room for respect in it really - the only thing players can do to one another is not throw body checks (which I'm pretty sure happened to Gretzky at the end of his career when he was slower).  There's room for respect in baseball like that when only one team makes the playoffs from each league and most of them are competing for nothing.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Hockey's just a much different game.  There isn't room for respect in it really - the only thing players can do to one another is not throw body checks (which I'm pretty sure happened to Gretzky at the end of his career when he was slower).  There's room for respect in baseball like that when only one team makes the playoffs from each league and most of them are competing for nothing.

 

I agree.  What I was pointing out (though not specifically) is that there's not going to be any real way for Marty to be propped up and NOT made to look bad (like when teams took it easy on Mantle, both when he was at the plate and in the field).  Like you said, you can ease up checking a Gretzky-type...but I don't expect shooters to ease up on their shots, or not take advantage of Marty if he's flopping or not moving side-to-side well...or to pass up on an easy goal if Marty's way out of position. 

[DJ Eco]

I'm trying to think of great athletes I saw at the end of the line when I was that age and I can't really think of any.  I guess I saw Lawrence Taylor's last season, but Lawrence Taylor in highlight films is this ridiculously dominant player, and he's not that to me, because I didn't see that guy, I saw a pretty good linebacker who was past his prime.

 

For me, Michael Jordan would be the standout of the group. Also, a lot of soccer greats that retired around that time too, Roberto Baggio, Romario, etc., standing out in that group (for me at least).

 

I see a lot of similarities between Baggio and Brodeur, both with a (relatively) quiet passion to keep playing the game, and not in it for the press or the fame. Baggio kept up a pretty high level of play (as has Brodeur, who was crucial in the 2011 playoff run in my opinion) but didn't go out doing anything too notable, just wanted to keep playing the game.

Edited October 18, 2013 by DJ Eco