Maxime Clermont

[Devil Dan 56]

What about other years besides this year?  

 

Goalies are more random than in any other position from what I can tell.  There's several ways I can prove my point.  But I'll start with Vezina winners.

 

2013: Bobrovsky - undrafted

2012: Lundqvist - 7th round

2011: Thomas - 9th round

2010: Miller - 5th round

2009: Thomas - 9th round

2008: Brodeur - 1st round

2007: Brodeur - 1st round

2006: Kiprusoff - 5th round

2004: Brodeur - 1st round

2003: Brodeur - 1st round

2002: Theodore - 2nd round

2001: Hasek - 10th round

2000: Kolzig - 1st round

1999: Hasek - 10th round

1998: Hasek - 10th round

1997: Hasek - 10th round

1996: Carey - 2nd round

1995: Hasek - 10th round

1994: Hasek - 10th round

1993: Belfour - undrafted

1992: Roy - 4th round

1991: Belfour - undrafted

1990: Roy - 4th round

 

Carey, Kolzig, Theodore, and Marty are the only ones of my list to be 1st or 2nd rounders.

 

Roy, Belfour, Hasek, Kipper, Thomas, Miller, Lundqvist, and Bobrovsky are all 4th round or later picks.

 

That's a good list. And Roy was a 3rd round pick. But it doesn't disprove that in general the better goalies, like any other position, are drafted higher. You don't draft Dominic Hasek in the 10th rd expecting a Vezina. When Hasek was drafted, there was a lot of doubt over whether he would ever defect to the US. In fact, it took nearly a decade for him to join the NHL.  Of course there are anomalies, but the original discussion was from someone asking what was expected of Clermont. I said nothing much, you said goalies are a crapshoot and that they are rarely taken in the early rounds.

[dmann422]

I feel responsible for this mess. Let me weigh in enough to make a point, but not get involved enough to get yelled at. In fairness to mike, when saying goalies are a craps shoot, I'm fairly certain he was referring to draft picks. I'm not going to agree or disagree, because I have no idea. But him guessing kinkaid is going to be solid while maintaining the success of young goalies coming in are generally unpredictable isn't at all playing both sides. Kinkaid has years of professional experience we can use as a sample to decide either way. A seventeen year old coming out of a prep school in mass will be a bit up in the air, at least I think. I'm not a scout. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I could've easily googled clermonts draft position and saved this whole thing.

I'm not sure you understand what this fuss is about- After someone mentioned that clermont was a 6th round draft pick and will probably never make it past the ahl, Mike stated "you never know with goalies, they are such a crapshoot."

In another thread just 7 hours earlier, he proclaimed that Kinkaid, who is 2 years older, undrafted and putting up so-so numbers in the ahl "will be a solid goalie."

I've stuck up for mike before because I think he does bring good things to the forum, and I'm an optimist and a contrarian in my own way, but when he specifically and continuously contradicts himself like this it is very difficult to not call him out on it, and I can see perfectly well how many get annoyed at it. Unfortunately if he keeps it up very few people here will take his posts seriously anymore.

[Mike Brown]

That's a good list. And Roy was a 3rd round pick. But it doesn't disprove that in general the better goalies, like any other position, are drafted higher. You don't draft Dominic Hasek in the 10th rd expecting a Vezina. When Hasek was drafted, there was a lot of doubt over whether he would ever defect to the US. In fact, it took nearly a decade for him to join the NHL.  Of course there are anomalies, but the original discussion was from someone asking what was expected of Clermont. I said nothing much, you said goalies are a crapshoot and that they are rarely taken in the early rounds.

 

Fair enough.  Listen I'm not expecting much from Clermont myself.  But I won't count him out since as I said you just never know with goalies.  At least in my opinion.

 

I'm not sure you understand what this fuss is about- After someone mentioned that clermont was a 6th round draft pick and will probably never make it past the ahl, Mike stated "you never know with goalies, they are such a crapshoot."

In another thread just 7 hours earlier, he proclaimed that Kinkaid, who is 2 years older, undrafted and putting up so-so numbers in the ahl "will be a solid goalie."

I've stuck up for mike before because I think he does bring good things to the forum, and I'm an optimist and a contrarian in my own way, but when he specifically and continuously contradicts himself like this it is very difficult to not call him out on it, and I can see perfectly well how many get annoyed at it. Unfortunately if he keeps it up very few people here will take his posts seriously anymore.

 

I didn't contradict myself.  I clearly said in the same thread that goalies are a crapshoot.  If you go back and read every post I made in that thread, you'd see that.  Would it have been better to make it into one post?

[dmann422]

I didn't contradict myself. I clearly said in the same thread that goalies are a crapshoot. If you go back and read every post I made in that thread, you'd see that. Would it have been better to make it into one post?

edit: not worth it. Edited February 25, 2014 by dmann422

[Mike Brown]

edit: not worth it.

 

Regardless, here's what I mean.

 

I have watched Kinkaid a lot.  I like a lot of things he does.  He's pretty athletic, he's got good lateral movement, and is a decent puckhandler.  I think he has what it takes to make it in this league.  Granted, it's difficult to prognosticate goalies' futures in this league since mental toughness is hard to scout properly.  Goalies are just so hard to predict.