Game 3 GDT | Devils @ Flyers | 6:00pm ET

[PaDevsFan]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Triumph mentioned that the Devils never got a chance to really get going due to the penalty, which is true, but they still managed to give up two ridiculously dangerous chances to the Flyers before the penalty even occurred. They came out flat to start the OT after playing the entire 3rd period that way. It's inexcusable. I firmly believe that Lemaire overworked certain players last night because of his dumb roster decisions so I can understand if they had no legs toward the end of the game. But what is the excuse for not being prepared to start the OT after you just had a 17 minute break? Through the first two periods it never even entered my mind that they were going to lose the game last night but that third period was just really bad. It's concerning that it all fell apart for them like that. I mean I guess it shouldn't be a surprise considering the last few months but it was just bad on so many levels.

I really want to believe that this team can come back, I really do, but they have an extremely difficult climb ahead of them. We're basically asking a team who has only won 2 out of a possible 9 games against Philly to now win 3 out of a possible 4 and they have basically found every way possible to lose to the Flyers this season. I said it before and I'll say it again, they are in deep sh!t. Last night may wind up being the straw that broke the camel's back when all is said and done.

Focus has been brought up in this thread and I think it really sums everything up because they are lacking it. There are just way too many WTF type of decisions and moments from the players and the coaching staff.

All I know is outshot 18 - 4 in the 3rd and OT, I stand by my statement they were lucky to even get to OT, but all is well with t he team, they are "fine"

[MadDog2020]

optional practice today. nice. hopefully they have a film study today at the hotel, but I have a feeling it's more likely they have cribbage and cheesesteak eating contests

edit: and only the scratches/fringe guys showed up. Lemaire isn't even there. beautiful.

That's awesome. Maybe they're having another closed door meeting to talk about their feelings. I'm sure they'll air all of their dirty laundry, and go out and play a great 20 minutes of hockey tomorrow night.

[maxpower]

That's awesome. Maybe they're having another closed door meeting to talk about their feelings. I'm sure they'll air all of their dirty laundry, and go out and play a great 20 minutes of hockey tomorrow night.

no, I'm guessing they're going to do their pressers, and when they're done, they'll return to the hotel to join the other players in a massive cribbage tournament.

not even a walk-through? there were plenty of things to walk-through.

[Sickman]

i agree i'm baffled at why they would dress corrente over Pelley, especially when they could have used another center for their piss poor faceoff stats...

then dressing Fraser instead of Skoula was also sketchy, then you only give the kid 5:52 ice time? He made a mistake but you gotta play your guys!

not pleased at all with those decisions! Pelley should have been in there for sure...

I was totally on board with Lemaire signing up during the summer but he has really disappointed me these last few months and I think the team will need to win in spite of him. There have been so many times that this team has just looked like a rudderless ship and some of his roster decisions, like last night, really leave a bad taste in your mouth. Fraser had no business being in this series unless someone was really hurt. His being in the lineup essentially killed the defense last night.

All I know is outshot 18 - 4 in the 3rd and OT, I stand by my statement they were lucky to even get to OT, but all is well with t he team, they are "fine"

Marty Brodeur. He was the only reason that game did not turn into a complete blood bath. Philly could have easily scored 4 or 5 goals that 3rd period if he did not stand on his head. Their play was nothing short of offensive, as ironic as that sounds.

[Triumph]

I was totally on board with Lemaire signing up during the summer but he has really disappointed me these last few months and I think the team will need to win in spite of him. There have been so many times that this team has just looked like a rudderless ship and some of his roster decisions, like last night, really leave a bad taste in your mouth. Fraser had no business being in this series unless someone was really hurt. His being in the lineup essentially killed the defense last night.

i can only roll my eyes at this stuff. do you really know, or have you even considered, the actual difference between fraser and skoula over the course of a season?

[MadDog2020]

no, I'm guessing they're going to do their pressers, and when they're done, they'll return to the hotel to join the other players in a massive cribbage tournament.

not even a walk-through? there were plenty of things to walk-through.

Nah, c'mon Max. Didn't you know the coach thinks they played "fine"? Did you see that power play last night? It was reminiscent of the 80's Oilers. Just machine-like.

[Sickman]

i can only roll my eyes at this stuff. do you really know, or have you even considered, the actual difference between fraser and skoula over the course of a season?

Roll your eyes all you want. No disrespect intended, but I don't give two sh*ts what is the difference between Fraser and Skoula over the course of the season and neither should you. Why does that even matter at this point? seriously. We're talking about a 7 game series (well really 5 if you start from last night) where every decision is critical. There is little room for error.

Fraser was directly responsible for the second goal. There is the first blunder. Lemaire then proceeded to give the kid less then 6 minutes of ice time, which was the second blunder, and led to every other defenseman playing more then they had to. Why the hell even put the kid in the lineup if you're not gonna play him? Or Lemaire could have just dressed him as another wing on the 4th line!

I'm not saying that playing Skoula would have won the Devils the game but Lemaire can not be defended for playing Fraser, not after last night. It's a risky move even if it had worked out. He sh!t the bed big time with that call.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Sickman

[maxpower]

i can only roll my eyes at this stuff. do you really know, or have you even considered, the actual difference between fraser and skoula over the course of a season?

yeah, but Skoula getting the hook was based on a one sample result-oriented decision, so I don't have a problem with someone using that back on Lemaire.

I guess the + on Skoula getting the hook was that the Devils must actually watch tape, because I wasn't sure. he looked brutal on the highlight package. maybe the announcer telling me how brutal he was clouded my judgement.

[Sickman]

yeah, but Skoula getting the hook was based on a one sample result-oriented decision, so I don't have a problem with someone using that back on Lemaire.

I guess the + on Skoula getting the hook was that the Devils must actually watch tape, because I wasn't sure. he looked brutal on the highlight package. maybe the announcer telling me how brutal he was clouded my judgement.

Skoula seemed to be very weak on the puck over the first couple of games. I have no issue with Lemaire noticing this. But you don't fix that by spotting the other team a goal and rolling with 5 d-men for no good reason. I mean he was confident enough to let Fraser have a crack at it, why not let him continue to play the game?

Edited April 19, 2010 by Sickman

[sundstrom]

i can only roll my eyes at this stuff. do you really know, or have you even considered, the actual difference between fraser and skoula over the course of a season?

Roll your eyes all you want. No disrespect intended, but I don't give two sh*ts what is the difference between Fraser and Skoula over the course of the season and neither should you. Why does that even matter at this point? seriously. We're talking about a 7 game series (well really 5 if you start from last night) where every decision is critical. The margin of error is just to low to be making stupid decisions like Lemaire made last night.

Fraser was directly responsible for the second goal. There is the first blunder. Lemaire then proceeded to give the kid less then 6 minutes of ice time, which was the second blunder, and led to every other defenseman playing more then they had to. Why the hell even put the kid in the lineup if you're not gonna play him? Or Lemaire could have just dressed him as another wing on the 4th line!

I'm not saying that playing Skoula would have won the Devils the game but Lemaire can not be defended for playing Fraser, not after last night. It's a risky move even if it had worked out. He sh!t the bed big time with that call.

i'm totally w/ sickman on this one tri. we can talk about statistics all we want - sample sizes and the like. in cases like a playoff game - which is the definition of NO sample size, you have to view it as a singular event as well as in the context of the previous two games, as well as the last month. I would argue that at this point, what happened before 2010 is virtually meaningless. As Dr. Lillienfield says, "It's the here and the now and the needle in the haystack."

fraser's existance in that lineup and his subsequent use was an asinine decision. there was almost NO upside to the decision. I mean, if you put in salmela, i suppose you could argue he brings a different dimension than skoula in that he has a good shot and has a better transition game. fraser's play type is exactly the same as skoula's except he has no playoff experience and has played 3 games in 2 months. it was an absolute recipe for disaster.

sometimes the coach can do more harm than good and I truly believe that JL is there right now. perhaps a jim caldwell manequin might be better at this point.

[maxpower]

Skoula seemed to be very weak on the puck over the first couple of games. I have no issue with Lemaire noticing this. But you don't fix that by spotting the other team a goal and rolling with 5 d-men for no good reason. I mean he was confident enough to let Fraser have a crack at it, why not let him continue to play the game?

because of the screw-up. couldn't trust him after that, considering it was a pretty simple play. so, he sat a guy who had a few screw-ups (or maybe better put, lacking effort plays), in a win, for a guy that contributed to a loss by choking on a forced error.

rolled the dice and lost. don't know if it was really necessary.

[MadDog2020]

Skoula seemed to be very weak on the puck over the first couple of games. I have no issue with Lemaire noticing this. But you don't fix that by spotting the other team a goal and rolling with 5 d-men for no good reason. I mean he was confident enough to let Fraser have a crack at it, why not let him continue to play the game?

The sad thing is, having seen this movie before, I said to myself as soon as Fraser fvcked up: "he will be nailed to the bench the rest of the game". And sure enough...

[Triumph]

fraser played at least one more shift afterwards, but there's really no point in discussing this with you people.

sundstrom: my point about fraser and skoula is to distinguish how good they might be at any given point. there's no other way to do this than to assess their play over the season.

[Sickman]

because of the screw-up. couldn't trust him after that, considering it was a pretty simple play. so, he sat a guy who had a few screw-ups (or maybe better put, lacking effort plays), in a win, for a guy that contributed to a loss by choking on a forced error.

rolled the dice and lost. don't know if it was really necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I know why Lemaire sat the kid. It was a really weak turnover that led to the goal. My point is that what the hell was there to gain by even playing him in the first place? Like Sundstrom said, he played like 3 games in 2 months and you want to throw him into a big divisional rivalry playoff game? And you just knew the kid was going to be on the shortest of leashes. Did anybody honestly think that Fraser would not ride the pine after the 2nd goal?

Game 2 might not have been perfect but they won the game. Don't fvck with a winning lineup. Lemaire needs to get that through his bald skull for once.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Sickman

[Triumph]

Don't get me wrong, I know why Lemaire sat the kid. It was a really weak turnover that led to the goal. My point is that what the hell was there to gain by even playing him in the first place? Like Sundstrom said, he played like 3 games in 2 months and you want to throw him into a big divisional rivalry playoff game? And you just knew the kid was going to be on the shortest of leashes. Did anybody honestly think that Fraser would not ride the pine after the 2nd goal?

Game 2 might not have been perfect but they won the game. Don't fvck with a winning lineup. Lemaire needs to get that through his bald skull for once.

didn't i hear all sorts of complaints when this was how brent sutter rolled last year?

Lemaire on the decision to use Fraser: “We all thought that he was ready because he sat for a long time and then we used him in a game (in the regular season) and he was really good,” Lemaire said. “We felt that we could get that type of game from him and we didn’t.” - I forget which game that was. When Lemaire is saying 'we all thought', he's clearly referring to the rest of the coaching staff.

[maxpower]

didn't i hear all sorts of complaints when this was how brent sutter rolled last year?

Lemaire on the decision to use Fraser: “We all thought that he was ready because he sat for a long time and then we used him in a game (in the regular season) and he was really good,” Lemaire said. “We felt that we could get that type of game from him and we didn’t.” - I forget which game that was. When Lemaire is saying 'we all thought', he's clearly referring to the rest of the coaching staff.

it's not like the rest of his staff is Larry and Slava. I admire that Jacques was actually able to get Lou to allow him to hire an assistant, but that guy is Mario Tremblay.

[Sickman]

fraser played at least one more shift afterwards, but there's really no point in discussing this with you people.

sundstrom: my point about fraser and skoula is to distinguish how good they might be at any given point. there's no other way to do this than to assess their play over the season.

Yeah he played one single shift I believe and then his ass was stapled to the bench.

You're a numbers guy and I'm sure you can show me something that will show that there really is not much of a difference between Skoula and Fraser over the season. No arguments there. But oh sh!t, we need to win game 3! Veteran player with playoff experience who is maybe not playing his best, or unproven youngster with no playoff experience being thrown into the fire in a swing game against a hard hitting in your face opponent? Great call JL.

With that piss poor effort in the third, the Devils would have lost the game even if they suited up an in his prime Larry Robinson. My beef is that Lemaire tried to fix one thing and messed up even more by making the move he did. And I can't see what major payoff he was hoping to cash in on by making that move.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Sickman

[HellOnICE]

didn't i hear all sorts of complaints when this was how brent sutter rolled last year?

Lemaire on the decision to use Fraser: “We all thought that he was ready because he sat for a long time and then we used him in a game (in the regular season) and he was really good,” Lemaire said. “We felt that we could get that type of game from him and we didn’t.” - I forget which game that was. When Lemaire is saying 'we all thought', he's clearly referring to the rest of the coaching staff.

Lou too. Lou is in on these decisions.

[Sickman]

didn't i hear all sorts of complaints when this was how brent sutter rolled last year?

Lemaire on the decision to use Fraser: “We all thought that he was ready because he sat for a long time and then we used him in a game (in the regular season) and he was really good,” Lemaire said. “We felt that we could get that type of game from him and we didn’t.” - I forget which game that was. When Lemaire is saying 'we all thought', he's clearly referring to the rest of the coaching staff.

Fair enough, maybe I'm being too harsh on Lemaire specifically, but he is the head honcho. Whether it was a group decision or all on his own, it was just way too risky imo and it backfired on them big time. The game is complicated enough as it is. No reason to make it more difficult.

[Triumph]

Yeah he played one single shift I believe and then his ass was stapled to the bench.

You're a numbers guy and I'm sure you can show me something that will show that there really is not much of a difference between Skoula and Fraser over the season. No arguments there. But oh sh!t, we need to win game 3! Veteran player with playoff experience who is maybe not playing his best, or unproven youngster with no playoff experience being thrown into the fire in a swing game against a hard hitting in your face opponent? Great call JL.

With that piss poor effort in the third, the Devils would have lost the game even if they suited up an in his prime Larry Robinson. My beef is that Lemaire tried to fix one thing and messed up even more by making the move he did. And I can't see what major payoff he was hoping to cash in on by making that move.

fraser is a physical defenseman whereas skoula plays like he's 5'11" 190 - skoula's just a big kitten out there. if he's not good positionally, as he hasn't been in the playoffs, then he's not good at all. you exaggerate the difference between fraser and skoula - my entire point is that there really isn't one. he was a disaster for pittsburgh and it wouldn't at all surprise me if he's not in the league next year.

[NJDevs26]

i can only roll my eyes at this stuff. do you really know, or have you even considered, the actual difference between fraser and skoula over the course of a season?

The difference is on most nights Skoula can play 16-18 minutes and won't kill you, whereas at best Fraser can match that and at worst he makes one mistake and we're down to five D the rest of the game, it's not like we hadn't seen that script before either. Besides, you don't play a cold rookie in his first playoff game on the road.

fraser is a physical defenseman whereas skoula plays like he's 5'11" 190 - skoula's just a big kitten out there. if he's not good positionally, as he hasn't been in the playoffs, then he's not good at all.

Aren't you the one that always goes on about small size sample? Skoula's actually been pretty good as a Devil until maybe the first game or two of the playoffs. Of course it helps when you're a stay-at-home guy to get paired with a mobile defender. Skoula was with Martin most of the season and Salvador in the playoffs so it's not a surprise he's struggling now.

Still there was no reason to do this, the risk-reward weighed too heavily in the risk column. There was very little reward and little chance of getting it but a lot of risk that was far more likely to happen.

Edited April 19, 2010 by NJDevs26

[Sickman]

fraser is a physical defenseman whereas skoula plays like he's 5'11" 190 - skoula's just a big kitten out there. if he's not good positionally, as he hasn't been in the playoffs, then he's not good at all. you exaggerate the difference between fraser and skoula - my entire point is that there really isn't one. he was a disaster for pittsburgh and it wouldn't at all surprise me if he's not in the league next year.

I guess big kitten is a good way to sum up his game lol. Fwiw I'd personally go with experience when there isn't much of a difference between two players but that may just be me. Like I said I agree that there is not much difference between Fraser and Skoula, their style of play not withstanding. I would have had no issue withe Fraser being in the lineup had they let the damn kid play. That is all I'm trying to say. The way it turned out, he was put into the lineup, played a few minutes and contributed to a goal against and keeping a spot on the bench all warm and crispy. 5 overworked d-men and an OT loss later, here we are.

[sundstrom]

fraser played at least one more shift afterwards, but there's really no point in discussing this with you people.

sundstrom: my point about fraser and skoula is to distinguish how good they might be at any given point. there's no other way to do this than to assess their play over the season.

what do you mean "you people?" what do YOU mean "you people?!" setup for good quote aside, you're not talking with people to take this tack with. just because there's a vehement disagreement doesn't mean it's time to invoke rule 1.

as for your agrument regarding full season assessment, that's just not fair when every game is so critical and they have to be looked at as separate events.

didn't i hear all sorts of complaints when this was how brent sutter rolled last year?

Lemaire on the decision to use Fraser: “We all thought that he was ready because he sat for a long time and then we used him in a game (in the regular season) and he was really good,” Lemaire said. “We felt that we could get that type of game from him and we didn’t.” - I forget which game that was. When Lemaire is saying 'we all thought', he's clearly referring to the rest of the coaching staff.

he's referring to the buffalo game at the end of the season where he actually did play well. of course, buffalo doesn't play the style that the flyers do but i digress.

fraser is a physical defenseman whereas skoula plays like he's 5'11" 190 - skoula's just a big kitten out there. if he's not good positionally, as he hasn't been in the playoffs, then he's not good at all. you exaggerate the difference between fraser and skoula - my entire point is that there really isn't one. he was a disaster for pittsburgh and it wouldn't at all surprise me if he's not in the league next year.

you are completely disregarding experience here which really does matter when NEITHER player are difference makers of any sort from an offensive standpoint. except fraser is the kind of defenseman (at this stage in his career) that you attack while you give Skoula a bit of room because of his experience. Sure Fraser might sting a bit when he puts you into the boards or tries to muscle you off the puck. but at best, he was getting 12 minutes of ice last night. At worst, well - we saw what at worst was.

i am disappointed that my quote from earlier went unnoticed.

[Triumph]

I guess big kitten is a good way to sum up his game lol. Fwiw I'd personally go with experience when there isn't much of a difference between two players but that may just be me. Like I said I agree that there is not much difference between Fraser and Skoula, their style of play not withstanding. I would have had no issue withe Fraser being in the lineup had they let the damn kid play. That is all I'm trying to say. The way it turned out, he was put into the lineup, played a few minutes and contributed to a goal against and keeping a spot on the bench all warm and crispy. 5 overworked d-men and an OT loss later, here we are.

they couldn't let him play though, the game plan had to be changed. the devils were getting killed in their own zone at even strength for most of the game.

i don't think skoula would've played 16 or 18 minutes on the road. the devils were clearly unhappy with his penalty killing, which, who could blame them.

and yeah sundstrom i've got nothing on that.

[sundstrom]

and yeah sundstrom i've got nothing on that.

if i told you that i once claimed i was God in a deposition, would that help?