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Lots to mull for Devils’ legend Brodeur - Brooks NY Post


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I don't think Lou deserves any of the blame for guys leaving. Kovalchuk-Parise was Vanderbeek pulling the strings.

 

It almost resulted in a cup, but it was a boom or bust move. If Lou was in control 100% of the way, Kovy walks, Parise signed long term. Maybe Lou knew of Kovy's flirtation with Russia beforehand (I suspect he did) and did his best to talk Vanderbeek out of it. Once Kovy was signed Parise was a goner. And then Kovy was a goner

 

Clarkson. Thank god we're not paying him

 

Rafalski. Wanted to go home. 

 

Niedermayer. Really wanted to play with his brother. Left money on the table. Can't fault Lou there

 

Gomez? Eh, not worth it. Decent 1st year with the Rags. Steady career free fall since then.

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While I don't blame Lou for some of these guys leaving, I feel there could be a better way of finding out their intentions before they hit free agency so we don't lose them for nothing. 

 

Their intentions don't really matter if you are looking at a playoff run. In almost every one of those seasons, the playoffs were a definite or at least a possibility.

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Their intentions don't really matter if you are looking at a playoff run. In almost every one of those seasons, the playoffs were a definite or at least a possibility.

exactly, the same reason why the devils are considered one of the most successful franchises the past quarter century (making the playoffs consistently) is what people are complaining about now. Selling guys like Gomez parise and niedermeyer in their walk years would have been terrible for the team each of those years, even if Lou knew it was guaranteed they would not return I'm glad he held on and went for it. I don't want to be a team always looking toward the future- id rather take a shot when we have it.
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Their intentions don't really matter if you are looking at a playoff run. In almost every one of those seasons, the playoffs were a definite or at least a possibility.

In the case with Parise, IMO it was pretty obvious what his intentions were when he signed a 1 year deal as an RFA. Who knows what he was telling Lou the whole time but I still think Lou could have gotten some nice pieces from Minnesota if he traded him at the beginning of the season (long before they even knew they were gonna make the playoffs) and they still could have made the same impact in the playoffs that year.

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In the case with Parise, IMO it was pretty obvious what his intentions were when he signed a 1 year deal as an RFA. Who knows what he was telling Lou the whole time but I still think Lou could have gotten some nice pieces from Minnesota if he traded him at the beginning of the season (long before they even knew they were gonna make the playoffs) and they still could have made the same impact in the playoffs that year.

 

Why would Minnesota trade assets for him when they could just sign him at the end of the season without giving up ANY pieces?  At any rate, we've seen that the returns on these deals usually don't tend to be anything near what fans hope for.

 

It's pretty obvious what his intentions were in jilted-fan hindsight.  At the time, Lou did say they were hoping to get something done at a later date.  You or anyone else has no idea what they would've done in the 2011-12 regular season and playoffs w/o Parise.    

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Agreed. It's not like there was NO chance, or he would have walked before signing the one year deal. That deal makes me feel he was conflicted about going into free agency.

I think he was very conflicted. It came down to the Devils and Minnesota in the end even with Minny saying they'd sign Suter too. Supposedly he turned down Detroit and Pittsburgh, but who knows about that part.

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exactly, the same reason why the devils are considered one of the most successful franchises the past quarter century (making the playoffs consistently) is what people are complaining about now. Selling guys like Gomez parise and niedermeyer in their walk years would have been terrible for the team each of those years, even if Lou knew it was guaranteed they would not return I'm glad he held on and went for it. I don't want to be a team always looking toward the future- id rather take a shot when we have it.

 

THIS

 

I would much rather go into the postseason with the best possible roster.

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Why would Minnesota trade assets for him when they could just sign him at the end of the season without giving up ANY pieces?  At any rate, we've seen that the returns on these deals usually don't tend to be anything near what fans hope for.

 

It's pretty obvious what his intentions were in jilted-fan hindsight.  At the time, Lou did say they were hoping to get something done at a later date.  You or anyone else has no idea what they would've done in the 2011-12 regular season and playoffs w/o Parise.

When Zach signed the one year deal he was an RFA. If Lou traded him as an RFA Minnesota would have given up a lot. I actually still like Zach and I'm not upset he wanted to leave anymore but I still think losing him as an asset hurt the franchise (to whatever degree you choose). Its all speculation as to what we would have gotten in return for him and to how the devils would have been that year (I personally believe the devils still would have at least made the playoffs without him that year. Maybe even the cup run).

I feel like Lou likes to let players hit free agency to let them choose the Devils (prove their loyalty), but I'm not convinced that method works anymore. There's too much money on the line for these players. He has to try to lock them up as soon as he's able too. It's not like nj is a big attraction for free agents.

Of course it's easy for any of us to armchair quarterback from home, I just don't always agree with some of the things he does. Can't keep losing free agents for nothing.

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When Zach signed the one year deal he was an RFA. If Lou traded him as an RFA Minnesota would have given up a lot. I actually still like Zach and I'm not upset he wanted to leave anymore but I still think losing him as an asset hurt the franchise (to whatever degree you choose). Its all speculation as to what we would have gotten in return for him and to how the devils would have been that year (I personally believe the devils still would have at least made the playoffs without him that year. Maybe even the cup run).

I feel like Lou likes to let players hit free agency to let them choose the Devils (prove their loyalty), but I'm not convinced that method works anymore. There's too much money on the line for these players. He has to try to lock them up as soon as he's able too. It's not like nj is a big attraction for free agents.

Of course it's easy for any of us to armchair quarterback from home, I just don't always agree with some of the things he does. Can't keep losing free agents for nothing.

 

Just like he did with Travis Zajac - we miss him a lot now.

 

Why would Minnesota have given up 'a lot' for Parise when they could just sign him the next year anyway?  It wasn't like their team was going anywhere at the time.  Anyway I'm not sure that Lou didn't try to deal Parise - remember that draft was in Minnesota and Lou asked Zach to attend - but you're just not likely to get things that help you in the near-term.  With guys like Elias and Brodeur nearing the end and Kovalchuk a ticking time bomb, it doesn't make much sense to deal Parise for future considerations.

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When Zach signed the one year deal he was an RFA. If Lou traded him as an RFA Minnesota would have given up a lot. I actually still like Zach and I'm not upset he wanted to leave anymore but I still think losing him as an asset hurt the franchise (to whatever degree you choose). Its all speculation as to what we would have gotten in return for him and to how the devils would have been that year (I personally believe the devils still would have at least made the playoffs without him that year. Maybe even the cup run).

I feel like Lou likes to let players hit free agency to let them choose the Devils (prove their loyalty), but I'm not convinced that method works anymore. There's too much money on the line for these players. He has to try to lock them up as soon as he's able too. It's not like nj is a big attraction for free agents.

Of course it's easy for any of us to armchair quarterback from home, I just don't always agree with some of the things he does. Can't keep losing free agents for nothing.

The final word on this is that if the current CBA were in place at the start of the 2011-2012 season, Zach would either still be a Devil or he would have been traded. It's the same reason that Zajac is still on the Devils, or that he would have been traded to Winnipeg.

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Just like he did with Travis Zajac - we miss him a lot now.

 

Why would Minnesota have given up 'a lot' for Parise when they could just sign him the next year anyway?  It wasn't like their team was going anywhere at the time.  Anyway I'm not sure that Lou didn't try to deal Parise - remember that draft was in Minnesota and Lou asked Zach to attend - but you're just not likely to get things that help you in the near-term.  With guys like Elias and Brodeur nearing the end and Kovalchuk a ticking time bomb, it doesn't make much sense to deal Parise for future considerations.

 

I meant that if Lou had tried to trade Zach as an RFA instead of signing him to that one year deal I believe Minnesota would have given up a lot. Still believe that. The owners wanted Zach and Ryan badly. I even remember them saying that Zach would be able to buy the franchise when he retires if wants to right before the deal was signed. 

 

I think Lou signing Zajac during the season and while he was still an RFA was reactionary to what happened with Zach. But then he let Clarkson walk for nothing. In Clarkson's situation though, I don't think Clarkson had much trade value and I think Lou knew someone else was going to pay way too much for him. 

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I wonder if we would have tried to make a move for Suter if we could have kept Zach happy. 

 

Yeah I remember hearing from a pretty good source (McKenzie maybe) that Suter absolutely refused to leave his ranch out west behind.

 

So, being the good obedient puppy he was, Zach went to him instead  :giggle:

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Derek Jeter just announced that he will be retiring after the 2014 season. I wish so much that Marty had the foresight to do this before this season started. I know his reasoning was that he didn't want it to be a distraction and he wanted to see how he'd feel when the season was over, but I think it would have been so much easier for everyone involved if that had been the case.

 

I know it doesn't really offer anything because reality is what it is. It's just the first thing that came to mind when I read that announcement.

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Derek Jeter just announced that he will be retiring after the 2014 season. I wish so much that Marty had the foresight to do this before this season started. I know his reasoning was that he didn't want it to be a distraction and he wanted to see how he'd feel when the season was over, but I think it would have been so much easier for everyone involved if that had been the case.

 

I know it doesn't really offer anything because reality is what it is. It's just the first thing that came to mind when I read that announcement.

 

I always feel like those announcements mean the guy just wants to travel around having his ass kissed like Rivera did last year. Just announce you are retiring when you are done. It doesn't make anything easier, even if Marty announced it (and we don't actually know if that is even his intention), you know he would have still wanted to play every day and it really wouldn't be any different than it is now. 

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Kills me to think where this team would be with Parise and Suter here

 

Well to hopefully make you feel better, there was absolutely no way in hell that JVB could've paid those signing bonuses to both of them, especially with Kovy on the books still.  I think they both received something like 20m up front (40m out of JVB's pocket at once?  I doubt he even half that ready to go).

 

Can you imagine the sheer panic JVB would've felt having ~40m due on July 1st, then 11m annually to Kovy for the next couple years?  Combine that with the arena debt and I think he probably would've fled the country :lol:

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I always feel like those announcements mean the guy just wants to travel around having his ass kissed like Rivera did last year. Just announce you are retiring when you are done. It doesn't make anything easier, even if Marty announced it (and we don't actually know if that is even his intention), you know he would have still wanted to play every day and it really wouldn't be any different than it is now. 

 

Are you kidding?  Now the Yankees know that they need an everyday shortstop in 2015.  They knew that anyway because Jeter is about finished, but instead of having to possibly move Jeter to another position (and his bat is really not suitable for any others), or having to go through the painful process of having to have him be a utility/bench player (what Brodeur is going through now, and he is not handling it well), they can plan accordingly.

 

If Brodeur had said he was done after this year, this would be less of an issue.  As I said upthread, I think Brodeur's biggest problem with sitting is that he thinks he will not be able to get a starting job next season.  He obviously wouldn't be happy with sitting had he said he was retiring, but I think he'd be okay with it.

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I always feel like those announcements mean the guy just wants to travel around having his ass kissed like Rivera did last year. Just announce you are retiring when you are done. It doesn't make anything easier, even if Marty announced it (and we don't actually know if that is even his intention), you know he would have still wanted to play every day and it really wouldn't be any different than it is now. 

 

 

Well part of the problem is that Marty has no idea of what he wants to do. When I said I wish Marty could do that, part of what I meant is make a definitive decision about retiring. He talks about having fun and feeling good, but part of playing at his age is seeing if you still have the ability to be effective. One of my fears of Marty was that he wouldn't retire before he was forced to, and unfortunately it looks like we are hitting that point. He's a goalie. His slowing skills can't be hidden like they can with a forward.

 

Also, I do think it would make some things easier. It's a lot easier for Lou, Deboer, Schneider, the locker room, the fans, the media, etc, if they know this is his last run. The media and fans wouldn't ride him as hard. Schneider, Deboer, and the locker room would know that this distraction will have a finite ending. There wouldn't be a need for special meetings about Marty's future, and then Lou wouldn't have to make the decision for him.

 

As for him wanting to play now, it would give him even less leverage as it would officially be a pass-the-torch season. I think it'd be a lot different because the Devils wouldn't have this "overstaying his welcome" feeling that we have now.

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