If the team continues to struggle, does Lou start to feel the heat?

[The 29th Pick]

You haven't really experienced true darkness yet.  Not too many current Devils fans have.  The only ones who really did were the one who jumped on board the minute the Rockies came here, and even then, I think everyone knew it was going to take some serious time before the team became any good.

 

When this team starts missing the playoffs for 3+ seasons consecutively, then we can start talking about dark times...hell, we're still less than a year-and-a-half removed from being in a Cup final.  But I'm not going to pretend I'm full of optimism as to what the immediate future holds.  I'm preparing myself for a rough year.    

Yeah when they came to Jersey no one expected much, but nowadays we do

Also....the Oilers were in the finals in 2006 and really havent done a thing (thats putting it nicely) since then

[third man in]

I haven't seen mention of this on here yet (might've missed it), but I found this interesting yesterday, as reported by TG:

 

Lamoriello said there was “never anything negative” between him and Parise or Parise and the Devils’ organization and then said something a little strange about Parise’s decision to sign with Minnesota. “There were extenuating circumstances in that whole thing,” Lamoriello said. When I asked if it had anything to do with the ownership situation that summer, Lamoriello would only say, “Everything’s in the past. You go forward.” -

 

[lazer]

 i love debos system, but it showed its faults against the Kings.

 

losing those guys like parise who made his sytem work...fvck that deusch.

 

this roster screams shell defensive trap and debo cant provide that.

[maxpower]

I haven't seen mention of this on here yet (might've missed it), but I found this interesting yesterday, as reported by TG:

 

They couldn't cut him a Brad Richards style front-load.    I don't even think he had to be that vague about it.   Everyone knows.

[dmann422]

So, by logic, does Marty 'deserve' to be the starting goaltender as long as he desires to be? It's the same situation, and I think sometimes the greats have a hard time realizing when they've lost their edge.

I don't see why one has to follow the other. There is a clear difference between the physical demands of hockey and general managing.

It's not like Lou has gone senile (I know some would argue the 29th pick). He's still an effective gm as evidenced by the Schneider trade.

So yes, unless he's put in a mental institution or is convicted of a felony, I have no problem supporting him 100% until he's ready to go.

[EdgeControl]

we knew we were in trouble short term when kovy bolted, but long term its good

zach was a tough deal keep him for a SC run or sell  we went for the run

 

like others the thing which totally pisses me off is the matteau pick, why not give it back there??? stupid!

 

the signing this year are what they are, a mad scramble to feild a team and try and get some goals anyway he could

 

they certainly arent Devil style role models.

btw,  brunner has fallen off the corsi cliff the last 7 of 8 games. he's teddy-like defensively now.

[ATLL765]

So, by logic, does Marty 'deserve' to be the starting goaltender as long as he desires to be?  It's the same situation, and I think sometimes the greats have a hard time realizing when they've lost their edge.

I've said in the past he gets a pass for one GOD AWFUL season. Last year we all sucked, so it's not just him. If he's awful this year, he gets the whole year to do a goodbye tour and that's it.

 

we knew we were in trouble short term when kovy bolted, but long term its good

zach was a tough deal keep him for a SC run or sell  we went for the run

 

like others the thing which totally pisses me off is the matteau pick, why not give it back there??? stupid!

 

the signing this year are what they are, a mad scramble to feild a team and try and get some goals anyway he could

 

they certainly arent Devil style role models.

btw,  brunner has fallen off the corsi cliff the last 7 of 8 games. he's teddy-like defensively now.

Brunner has looked like garbage lately. Hasn't been able to control the puck on his stick, terrible on the forecheck, looks lost on defense.

[The 29th Pick]

I've heard the new owners have already cleaned house twice in Philly with the Sixers management.....so it looks like they're all business and don't care much for excuses

[lazer]

sixers?

[Triumph]

The scoring sucks, the goaltending sucks, but you know what hasn't been bad yet?  The defense.  You just fix one of the other two and you've got a team that's going to win more games than it loses.  

 

The thing about the Devils' UFA signings this year is that one of them lasts more than 3 years.  Now it's obviously the worst one and that's too bad, but if these are mistakes, they're theoretically fixable mistakes.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Triumph

[coldply123]

The scoring sucks, the goaltending sucks, but you know what hasn't been bad yet? The defense. You just fix one of the other two and you've got a team that's going to win more games than it loses.

The thing about the Devils' UFA signings this year is that one of them lasts more than 3 years. Now it's obviously the worst one and that's too bad, but if these are mistakes, they're theoretically fixable mistakes.

I think the argument is that the person making these mistakes should not be the one fixing them as the mistakes have become more pronounced and increasing in volume for nearly a decade now.

[dmann422]

The scoring sucks, the goaltending sucks, but you know what hasn't been bad yet? The defense. You just fix one of the other two and you've got a team that's going to win more games than it loses.

The thing about the Devils' UFA signings this year is that one of them lasts more than 3 years. Now it's obviously the worst one and that's too bad, but if these are mistakes, they're theoretically fixable mistakes.

stop being so rational, people around here want to scream and throw their arms up in the air because this team is doomed for the next 5 years! Edited November 4, 2013 by dmann422

[dmann422]

I think the argument is that the person making these mistakes should not be the one fixing them as the mistakes have become more pronounced and increasing in volume for nearly a decade now.

please name more than 5 gms who over the past decade have done better than Lou.

And I want ones that didn't need to tank in consecutive years to get elite talent.

[Mitico12]

I've heard the new owners have already cleaned house twice in Philly with the Sixers management.....so it looks like they're all business and don't care much for excuses

 

Yep.  Look where that's landed them...the sixers are an abomination (to say the least).

[Triumph]

I think the argument is that the person making these mistakes should not be the one fixing them as the mistakes have become more pronounced and increasing in volume for nearly a decade now.

 

The places where teams make catastrophic errors are typically in trade and free agency.  Lou hasn't gotten significantly beaten in trade in a long time.  He's made errors in free agency but everyone makes mistakes there.  The drafting hasn't been great, but I wouldn't call it poor either.

[coldply123]

please name more than 5 gms who over the past decade have done better than Lou.

And I want ones that didn't need to tank in consecutive years to get elite talent.

That's not quantifiable or qualitative in terms of appropriate comparison. It's totally irrelevant to proper analysis of the Devils and Lou and a siloed situation when you are a GM.

[coldply123]

The places where teams make catastrophic errors are typically in trade and free agency. Lou hasn't gotten significantly beaten in trade in a long time. He's made errors in free agency but everyone makes mistakes there. The drafting hasn't been great, but I wouldn't call it poor either.

Drafting has been poor to date. That assessment may improve as some of these dmen make an impact. Lou used to be a master of handling the year to year roster turnover. He's really fallen in that area regardless of the excuses people want to find.

[dmann422]

That's not quantifiable or qualitative in terms of appropriate comparison. It's totally irrelevant to proper analysis of the Devils and Lou and a siloed situation when you are a GM.

the point is if you get rid if Lou who do you replace him with?

Lou knows how to win and build great teams. Anyone you replace him with will be a much bigger gamble than keeping him.

[Triumph]

Drafting has been poor to date. That assessment may improve as some of these dmen make an impact. Lou used to be a master of handling the year to year roster turnover. He's really fallen in that area regardless of the excuses people want to find.

 

Sorry, but this is malarkey.  The Devils have never had to do this kind of a roster overhaul because they were constantly getting top talent from their drafting.  From 1990 to 2004, few teams beat the Devils in terms of quality of players drafted.  And this is a positive feedback loop because the more good players you draft, you can trade some away and still have other good players - e.g. the Gilmour trade, which many around here consider a 'bust' but it didn't hurt the Devils' long-term prospects at all, so what was really lost there?

 

The rest of the league has cottoned to some of Lou's best tricks - that undersized players are often undervalued, that college free agents are worth investigating, etc.  Other than that, when the pipeline of prospects stops, you can't then sell off veterans for picks and continue to pick up prospects.  In addition, the change in the UFA rules regarding compensatory picks also hurt NJ's drafting - used to be they got some free picks most years that they now do not get.

[DJ Eco]

the point is if you get rid if Lou who do you replace him with?

Lou knows how to win and build great teams. Anyone you replace him with will be a much bigger gamble than keeping him.

 

This ^^^ And do the new ownership know enough about the game to know who to get to replace him? My guess is no..

[Devilsfan118]

stop being so rational, people around here want to scream and throw their arms up in the air because this team is doomed for the next 5 years!

 

You need to chill out and step back from the thread if you can't have an actual discussion without sensationalizing everything.  People are allowed to have differing opinions - it's a forum for Christ sake.

 

-----

 

But I think the biggest thing Lou still has going for him is his reputation.  No one dares to try and fleece Lou Lams in a trade, the respect (read: influence) he has league wide is unprecedented.  I think that's what allows him to get Lokti for a 5th.  I don't doubt that Lou is still one of the sharpest GMs in the league, but I don't think he ever adapted well to the salary cap.  He had trouble when it was first implemented, and he's had his pretty bad blunders in recent years (dressing too few players a few years ago comes to mind) as well.

 

the point is if you get rid if Lou who do you replace him with?

 

Chris Lamoriello 

Edited November 4, 2013 by Devilsfan118

[Derlique]

I don't think people realize how crazy NJ was at drafting and signing UDFA from the late 90s-2004. Gomez, Parise, Gionta, White, Zajac, Martin, Madden and Rafalski. Those guys and Marty B were the reason why NJ was able to survive the losses of Stevens and Nieds

 

Devils are going through a similar transition with Marty, Kovy and Parise gone/leaving. Larsson has been fantastic since his insertion back into the lineup, Schneids is a great goalie, but aside from those players, plus possibly Merrill, there isn't elite talent on the way.

Edited November 4, 2013 by SMantzas

[2ELIAS6]

I don't think people realize how crazy NJ was at drafting and signing UDFA from the late 90s-2004. Gomez, Parise, Gionta, White, Zajac, Martin, Madden and Rafalski. Those guys and Marty B were the reason why NJ was able to survive the losses of Stevens and Nieds

looking back we had a lot of talent we were lucky which was why we were so successful it stings everyone now that theres not any talent on the team and they look like dog sh!t out there.. it really sucks but lou isnt going anywhere enless he wants to leave, thats almost a guarantee right there

[dmann422]

You need to chill out and step back from the thread if you can't have an actual discussion without sensationalizing everything. People are allowed to have differing opinions - it's a forum for Christ sake.

You criticize me for using hyperbole in jest when there are countless others here over the past 2 days using it seriously to prophesize how this team will forfeit a top 5 pick and argue how Lou should be fired.

It's a forum where everyone speaks in extremes in nearly every post. I don't see why I can't use it to point out how ridiculous extremes are.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

the point is if you get rid if Lou who do you replace him with?

Lou knows how to win and build great teams. Anyone you replace him with will be a much bigger gamble than keeping him.

 

From the title of the thread, I didn't really take it to mean "Lou feeling the heat from the fans".  I think if he's going to be feeling it from anywhere, it will be from ownership.  There's always going to fans that will complain about Lou's moves, and won't or can't tolerate a down period or some moves not working out.  And the Devils fanbase has its fair share of instant gratification types.       

 

I think if VBK was still the majority owner of the team, Lou would probably have almost Glen Sather-like job security.  With this group, I'm not so sure.