French and German papers run Danish Islam cartoons ... Muslims pissed.

[MaddDog]

It's called freedom of speech.....

I'm personally offended by planes flying into buildings and Christian school girls in Indonesia being beheaded by Islamic sociopaths. Why does it seem that these Muslims in question are more outraged by cartoons of Muhammed than MURDER of non-Muslims or even Muslims for that matter (e.g., homicide bombers in Iraq)?

French and German papers run Danish Islam cartoons

French and German papers run Danish Islam cartoons By Tom Heneghan

Wed Feb 1, 12:21 PM ET

PARIS (Reuters) - Newspapers in France and Germany reprinted Danish caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed on Wednesday, saying press freedom was more important than the protests and boycotts the cartoons have sparked across the Muslim world.

The Danish embassy in Damascus was evacuated after a bomb threat that turned out to be a hoax and Syria recalled its ambassador from Denmark in protest against the cartoons, one of which shows the Prophet Mohammed wearing a turban shaped like a bomb.

In Copenhagen, security police met Islamic leaders in a bid to calm reactions there. Muslims consider images of prophets distasteful and caricatures blasphemous.

Dalil Boubakeur, head of the French Muslim Council, denounced the publication of the drawings as a "provocation."

Burhan Kesici, a leader of Germany's Turkish community, said they reduced Islam "to two or three terrorists."

Two large Danish companies reported their sales falling in the Middle East after the incident led to protests in the Arab world and calls for boycotts.

"Enough lessons from these reactionary bigots!" France Soir editor Serge Faubert wrote in a commentary explaining why his newspaper had printed the cartoons.

"Just because the Koran bans images of Mohammed doesn't mean non-Muslims have to submit to this."

Germany's Die Welt printed a similar piece to accompany the cartoons.

"There is no right to be shielded from satire in the West," it said. "Christianity has been the object of ruthless criticism ... being able to make fun of the holiest things is a non-negotiable core tradition in our culture."

French Foreign Ministry spokesman Jean-Baptiste Mattei said France supported press freedom, which "should be exercised in a spirit of tolerance and respect for beliefs and religions."

Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons last September, has apologized for any hurt they may have caused. The Danish government says it cannot tell free media what to do.

'RISK OF ESCALATION'

Danish police said in a statement they had told Denmark's imams they were "highly aware of the risks of an escalation of the case, including the calls to burn the Koran, which these days flourish on the Internet and via SMS (phone messages)."

Such calls could be attempts by right-wing extremists to exploit the conflict and divide society, police said.

Boubakeur, who is also rector of the Paris Grand Mosque, called France Soir's decision to reprint the cartoons "a genuine provocation toward France's millions of Muslims."

Thousands of Palestinians protested against Denmark this week, and Arab ministers called on it to punish Jyllands-Posten.

Saudi Arabia has recalled its ambassador from Copenhagen and Libya has closed its embassy. Qatar condemned the cartoons.

The Danish-Swedish dairy product maker Arla Foods, with annual Middle East sales of almost $500 million, said it might have to cut 140 jobs due to the boycott.

"We are losing around 10 million Danish crowns ($1.8 million) per day at the moment," a spokeswoman said.

The world's biggest maker of insulin, Denmark's Novo Nordisk , said pharmacies and hospitals in Saudi Arabia had been avoiding its products since Saturday.

A Norwegian Christian publication called Magazinet printed the cartoons in January. On Tuesday, Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg expressed regret but made no outright apology.

"We cannot apologize for something written by newspapers in a country with freedom of expression like Norway," Norway's NTB news agency quoted him as saying in his first public comment.

The world press freedom watchdog Reporters without Borders, based in Paris, defended the newspapers. "Freedom of the press also exists for viewpoints that shock the majority of the population," RsF head Robert Menard told France Soir.

Sohaib Bencheikh, a moderate French Islamic theologian, said Western press freedom had overstepped its bounds. "The West has lost the sense of the transcendent and the sacred," he said.

(Additional reporting by Jon Boyle and Kerstin Gehmlich in Paris and Per Bech Thomsen in Copenhagen)

Edited February 1, 2006 by MaddDog

[LetsGoDevils]

[HelenaHandbasket]

It's called freedom of speech.....

I'm personally offended by planes flying into buildings and Christian school girls in Indonesia being beheaded by Islamic sociopaths. Why does it seem that these Muslims in question are more outraged by cartoons of Muhammed than MURDER of non-Muslims or even Muslims for that matter (e.g., homicide bombers in Iraq)?

I think these cartoons were unnecessarily provactive. In Israel awhile back, a right-wing activist was sent to jail for a couple years for distributing lit with cartoons of Mohammed as a pig, because her work helped incite riots. What satirical point were they making? It's painting all members of a religion with the same brush, and I'd be pissed too, especially if I was one of the millions of Muslims who feel the same way you do about suicide bombers murdering people.

[MaddDog]

I think these cartoons were unnecessarily provactive. In Israel awhile back, a right-wing activist was sent to jail for a couple years for distributing lit with cartoons of Mohammed as a pig, because her work helped incite riots. What satirical point were they making? It's painting all members of a religion with the same brush, and I'd be pissed too, especially if I was one of the millions of Muslims who feel the same way you do about suicide bombers murdering people.

So can someone explain to me why the Muslim word thinks it's perfectly OK to have nasty anti Semitic cartoons about Jews yet cartoons about Muhammad are off limits?? Talk about hypocrisy. I wonder why they see nothing wrong with mocking Jews.

Interesting how Christians don't run around rioting and threatening violence when a cross is suspended in urine or cow sh!t is speared on a Jesus or Virgin Mary statue. It's freedom of expression in WESTERN culture, even if we don't like it sometimes.

I just noticed you said the person above was arrested in ISRAEL. Which begs the question, would a Muslim be imprisoned in a Muslim nation for drawing cartoons that offended Jews and Christians worldwide? I highly doubt it. I thought you couldn't even wear a CROSS by law in Saudi Arabia!

Edited February 2, 2006 by MaddDog

[Don]

Interesting how Christians don't run around rioting and threatening violence when a cross is suspended in urine or cow sh!t is speared on a Jesus or Virgin Mary statue. It's freedom of expression in WESTERN culture, even if we don't like it sometimes.

Give me a break. If stuff like that ran in a high distribution newspaper, there would be Christian groups screaming bloody murder.

You assume that it is the same Muslims that think it is okay to print anti-Jewish cartoons but wrong to print anti-Muslim cartoons. I can tell you that NONE of the Muslims that I know would think that it is okay to print anti-Jewish cartoons. I can put you in touch by PM to at least 15 Muslim friends and co-workers that would tell you that they think anti-Semitic cartoons are disgusting. I would like you to put me in touch with one Muslim that you know personally that thinks that they are a good thing.

My thinking is that you really don't know that many Muslims and are just a being blatantly racist. Saying that "the muslim world" think it is okay is print anti-Semitic cartoons is wrong. Dead wrong. And the only reason I can think of why someone would lie like that would be that you are pure blatant racist in the vien of the KKK.

[Devils731]

Shocker, Don thinks he is the expert on the Muslim world because he has some friends, the rest of us have no idea about Muslims and have never met any apparently.

[Don]

All I'm saying is that *NONE*, *NONE*, *NONE* of the Muslim friends that I have, have EVER been anti-Semitic or anti-West.

You people take the extremist element and paint the whole of the Islam religion with the same brush AND IT JUST AIN'T SO.

[Devils731]

"You people", that is a brush painting statement right there. Plus, you want to take your friends and use them as the entire religion, again, doing what you complain about. I wonder if I'm lumped in with the "you people" who are racist.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Devils731

[MaddDog]

Don,

I'd appreciate it if you didn't accuse me of being a racist and comparing me to the KKK, thanks. Your narrow minded perspective seems alot more prejudical than anything I said. You don't even know me in real life and you feel free to make such blatant generalizations. So who's racist and bigoted again??? What I said is FACT. Alot of the Arab world publishes distasteful cartoons and literature about Israel and Jews. Go check out some Palestinian media if you don't believe me. You have mentioned your Muslim friends but I'm assuming that most of them live in Canada or Western culture (USA, Europe), not the Middle East.

Michelle Malkin has a link to the Muhammad cartoons on her web site:

Muhammad cartoons

[Don]

Can't follow simple logic, eh?

Statement: "The Muslim World think it is okay to print anti-Semitic cartoons"

Contrary statement: "I PERSONALLY know many Muslims who think otherwise"

I'm not saying all Muslims think the same way. I'm not saying that what my acquantences think is shared by all the Muslim world. I don't have to. My statement was proof positive that the whole Muslim world DO NOT think it is okay to print anti-Semitic cartoons.

I don't paint the whole Muslim world with one ideology. That's your sides job. I stated that there is an extreme element that is disturbingly wrong. But it is wrong to paint EVERYONE in the "Muslim World" with the same brush. Wrong as in FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

[Devils731]

Forget it, I have a new rule, as soon as someone wants to turn a discussion into an insult contest I'm done with them.

[MaddDog]

Can't follow simple logic, eh?

Statement: "The Muslim World think it is okay to print anti-Semitic cartoons"

Contrary statement: "I PERSONALLY know many Muslims who think otherwise"

I'm not saying all Muslims think the same way. I'm not saying that what my acquantences think is shared by all the Muslim world. I don't have to. My statement was proof positive that the whole Muslim world DO NOT think it is okay to print anti-Semitic cartoons.

I don't paint the whole Muslim world with one ideology. That's your sides job. I stated that there is an extreme element that is disturbingly wrong. But it is wrong to paint EVERYONE in the "Muslim World" with the same brush. Wrong as in FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

Where did I say that EVERY single Muslim on earth liked anti Jewish cartoons? I was referring to the Muslim world as a whole, and primarily the Middle East more so than the West. Are you going to try to tell me that the Arab/Muslim nations of the Middle East and Asia are NOT anti-Semitic? You know, those same countries that don't recognize Israel as a sovereign nation and publish anti Jewish literature and air anti Jewish TV shows-movies? Or claim that Israel should be wiped off the map or the holocaust was a myth?

[sammyk]

Should one (non-Muslim) expect an honest answer if they go up to a Muslim (in this case) in the "western world" and ask him/her if they approve of anti-Jewish cartoons? Do you really think they'll just say "Oh yah, I approve of them" if that was really how they felt?

[MaddDog]

Forget it, I have a new rule, as soon as someone wants to turn a discussion into an insult contest I'm done with them.

Yeah, I got compared to the Klan, isn't that nice. I'm done for tonight.

(Btw, I'm not 100% Aryan, so the KKK wouldn't want me.. Yeah I'm such a racist I told an Aryan Nations skinhead off at a punk concert once when I was younger! As I said, you know nothing about me).

[NJDevs4978]

Real mature of you Don, someone has a different viewpoint and you compare them to the KKK and call them racist. If you and the other people here who think they can make viewpoints by insulting continue to do this then I guess we'll have to babysit you all and start suspending people again. Enough with this nonsense, please. You have a difference of opinion fine, but stop assuming things about other posters you don't have a clue about and that goes for everyone else that feels the need to insult and belittle other posters.

[Triumph]

Apparently the world is supposed to acquiesce to America's wishes.

Also, I notice a standard arguing tactic where one group of people is not allowed to protest or comment on anything because there's something wrong with them. 'People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' - say these people, whereas their sturdy brick-and-mortar edifice withstands the avalanche of stones being hurled by them.

People are concerned with their own station, and the Muslim world has been getting spat on for hundreds of years. That doesn't make terrorism right or even agreeable, but there's a reason why the oppressed often celebrate loss of life and property damage and it isn't because they're savages.

[Don]

Real mature of you Don, someone has a different viewpoint and you compare them to the KKK and call them racist. If you and the other people here who think they can make viewpoints by insulting continue to do this then I guess we'll have to babysit you all and start suspending people again. Enough with this nonsense, please. You have a difference of opinion fine, but stop assuming things about other posters you don't have a clue about and that goes for everyone else that feels the need to insult and belittle other posters.

Use a f'ing dictionary. If someone:

LIES ("The Muslim World is anti-Semitic")

IN ORDER TO SPREAD HATRED

THEN THEY ARE RACIST

Forget mature. I called a spade a spade. Racism is "prejudice or discrimination on the basis of race or religion", by which I think all points were nailed dead on.

If you want to suspend me on that basis go right ahead.

Where did I say that EVERY single Muslim on earth liked anti Jewish cartoons? I was referring to the Muslim world as a whole, and primarily the Middle East more so than the West. Are you going to try to tell me that the Arab/Muslim nations of the Middle East and Asia are NOT anti-Semitic? You know, those same countries that don't recognize Israel as a sovereign nation and publish anti Jewish literature and air anti Jewish TV shows-movies? Or claim that Israel should be wiped off the map or the holocaust was a myth?

There you go. You admit you were referring to the Muslim World as a whole. I can bet my bottom dollar that my friends consider themselves "part of the Muslim World as a whole".

Yes, there are extremist - and there are extremists in power in certain countries - but that doesn't mean that you can paint the whole of the Muslim faith as anti-Semitic.

Yeah, I got compared to the Klan, isn't that nice. I'm done for tonight.

(Btw, I'm not 100% Aryan, so the KKK wouldn't want me.. Yeah I'm such a racist I told an Aryan Nations skinhead off at a punk concert once when I was younger! As I said, you know nothing about me).

I said that what you said makes you as racist as anyone in the KKK. I didn't say that you should be in the KKK, or that you believe in what the KKK believe in. Stating that the "whole of the Muslim World" is anti-Semitic is a lie only meant to spit upon the Muslim world and get others to hate Muslims as much as you do.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Don

[brylin18]

i'm not gonna comment on this article. i will suggest to some people to GO OUT and MEET PEOPLE. go and meet the people that you so comfortably slander from the cowardly position of your keyboard. go talk to them face to face. please, just go outside of your house and go and talk to some people. that will do more good than bombing the sh!t out of them.

people are the same the world over. everyone wants food on their plate, a roof over their head, and security and success for their children. stop hating whole groups of individual human beings that you've never even met in your life.

[HelenaHandbasket]

So can someone explain to me why the Muslim word thinks it's perfectly OK to have nasty anti Semitic cartoons about Jews yet cartoons about Muhammad are off limits?? Talk about hypocrisy. I wonder why they see nothing wrong with mocking Jews.

Interesting how Christians don't run around rioting and threatening violence when a cross is suspended in urine or cow sh!t is speared on a Jesus or Virgin Mary statue. It's freedom of expression in WESTERN culture, even if we don't like it sometimes.

I just noticed you said the person above was arrested in ISRAEL. Which begs the question, would a Muslim be imprisoned in a Muslim nation for drawing cartoons that offended Jews and Christians worldwide? I highly doubt it. I thought you couldn't even wear a CROSS by law in Saudi Arabia!

There's more to free speech than just babbling. This is the kind of thing that will be used by the fundamentalists you described to justify their cause, and there was no reason to do it. I do support the right of anyone, the KKK, Neo-Nazis, whatever, to run around like jackasses in public because people should know that they're jackasses. These cartoons would not have been out of place among those kind of people, which is why I have a problem with the people who chose to publish them. These are countries that have big problems with second and third generation Muslims turning to fundamentalism in part because of their sense of national ostracism, but instead of working on that problem, these publishers are encouraging it, telling them, "You will never be one of us" and making things worse.

And if it's so bad for Muslim extremists to use ugly characatures of Jews, why are you so keen to sink to their level?

[NJDevs4978]

There you go. You admit you were referring to the Muslim World as a whole. I can bet my bottom dollar that my friends consider themselves "part of the Muslim World as a whole".

Well my guess is they're not because they probably don't live in the Middle East. Being transplanted doesn't always lead to being moderate (it sure didn't for the hijackers on 9/11) but in a lot of cases it does.

But you're arguing semantics here. Getting indignant about the Muslim world comment and saying not all Muslims are extremists ignores the fact that the extremists right now are dominating all the press coverage, the rhetoric and in many cases outright ruling countries and also gaining in numbers daily.

They may not be the majority but they are the face of the religion right now, which is why Bush felt compelled in the SOTU to point out the fact that the Muslim faith is not one of terror just people in it. It's why many people DO discriminate against the religion as a whole. It's not doing the majority of Muslims who aren't extremists a lot of good that they either can't or won't speak up against the zealots.

BTW it is lame to complain about the cartoon, wasn't the cartoon of ONE person? How does that paint the whole religion with a brush? How many times has the 'evil' Bush been satired, I don't see him threatening to bomb anyone over a cartoon

I consider myself as PC as most average people but the PC activists (Muslim or American) sometimes go cuckoo...like with the Indian activists constantly complaining about the sports team names saying they're racist. They have better things to complain about than that.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Hasan4978

[HelenaHandbasket]

BTW it is lame to complain about the cartoon, wasn't the cartoon of ONE person? How does that paint the whole religion with a brush?

It was the Prophet Mohammed, which is a little bigger than some random dude.

[Swede]

hmm, a couple of years ago an artist in sweden had her paintings out on display. She called them ecce ++++ and portraied jesus as a homosexual... there was a LOT of complaints on that one an people are still talking about it

[Triumph]

It's okay to say Ecce ++++ Swede, that was the title of a Nietschze work. Oops, it edits that out. Ha ha.

As for the Prophet Mohammed, you're not even allowed to see him. All iconography is wrong to the Muslim faith. Now if the Muslim world is going to enter into the modern economy and the tradition of liberal democracy, this sort of rigor in religion will have to fall away - but it hasn't yet. Christianity has melted away and allowed itself to be compatible with democratic ideals.

The Muslim faith has many ties to the Jewish faith - you will not see mockery of the Jewish faith or major characters in the Jewish faith like Abraham, since he is just as important to the Muslims. The example set forth in this thread is therefore a false analogue.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Triumph

[RowdyFan42]

Perhaps if "the Muslim world" was a little more vocal in denouncing terrorists who supposedly act in the name of Islam, the rest of the world wouldn't be so quick to assume that Muslims as a whole condone such behavior.

[Triumph]

Perhaps if "the Muslim world" was a little more vocal in denouncing terrorists who supposedly act in the name of Islam, the rest of the world wouldn't be so quick to assume that Muslims as a whole condone such behavior.

The Muslims aren't on display - they're people. By saying such a thing, you've already assumed a great deal - 1. that Muslims in general care what you think about them (they shouldn't) and 2. that Muslims should care so much about the perception of them that major leaders should come out and denounce terrorism every time.

If they denounce terrorism, they'd be called liars - if they don't, they're complicit. Well, as long as they're guilty either way.

I think brylin18 put it very well in this thread. By and large, the majority of people want the same things.