Schneider & Salvador to IR

[Marshall]

it obviously fits his system better then jjs style of play.. which could be a reason hes not on the roster

 

JJ is on the roster. He's not in Albany. 

[2ELIAS6]

JJ is on the roster. He's not in Albany.

my bad hes an extra skater not playing

[Devils731]

it obviously fits his system better then jjs style of play.. which could be a reason hes not on the roster

 

I think Deboer likes players who he feels works hard.  He would take a hard working player giving him 5.5 rather than a more effortless or lazy player giving him a 6, IMO.

 

I'd go differently, I don't really care how a player looks doing it, I want the 6 over the 5.5.  I think Deboer subconsciously gives bonus points for hard work, as if there are bonus goals for that.

[dmann422]

It's funny how since the defense had a bad stretch the gio hate on the board has died down.

But I still feel the same way about him that I do with Harold- if he's used as the extra skater with spot starts he's fine. But deboer wants a hard working energy guy on the 4th and I guess jj isn't that type.

[Uncle Albert]

It's funny how since the defense had a bad stretch the gio hate on the board has died down.

But I still feel the same way about him that I do with Harold- if he's used as the extra skater with spot starts he's fine. But deboer wants a hard working energy guy on the 4th and I guess jj isn't that type.

Plus he is used on the PK.

[dmann422]

Plus he is used on the PK.

to my eye jj is a better pker. Simply seems more responsible in the sense that gionta overplays at times. And jj has a bit longer reach.

But alas I've never played the game before so I will never profess to be that knowledgeable on it. I just like watching.

Edited October 28, 2013 by dmann422

[redruM]

So how soon til Vol is on the IR so Merril can get up here as well??

 

I'm all for a youth movement, I've been yelling about it for ever.. 

 

JJ, Tedenby, Merril, Boucher.. give them all a chacne!

Edited October 28, 2013 by redruM

[thefiestygoat]

So how soon til Vol is on the IR so Merril can get up here as well??

 

I'm all for a youth movement, I've been yelling about it for ever.. 

 

JJ, Tedenby, Merril, Boucher.. give them all a chacne!

Besides being a 1st year pro, I don't mind Merrill spending this year in the AHL. The Devils already have enough capable D, he's only 21, and he's missed a lot of time over the last few years - 33 games in all competitions last year, 25 games in all competitions the year before. I'd be concerned about his stamina.

 

Boucher's off to a great start, 8 GP 2-5-7, +2, 8.33 SH%, 3 SH/GP but I don't think he'd be better than any of the Devils current forwards. I want to see him be consistent and keep progressing in Albany this year.

[NJDevs4978]

Let Boucher and Merrill stay down for the year and get ready, we've rushed kids a lot lately and it hasn't really worked out for us (Urbom, Josefson, Matteau, Larsson).

[hystyk28]

It's funny how since the defense had a bad stretch the gio hate on the board has died down.

But I still feel the same way about him that I do with Harold- if he's used as the extra skater with spot starts he's fine. But deboer wants a hard working energy guy on the 4th and I guess jj isn't that type.

 

I don't hate Gio, but there are other players I'd like to see tried out.  As far as him on the PK, his reach kills him.  But obviously Pete is very, very comfortable with not only him, but that line in general. Break up that line and Gio goes bye bye.

[ATLL765]

Let Boucher and Merrill stay down for the year and get ready, we've rushed kids a lot lately and it hasn't really worked out for us (Urbom, Josefson, Matteau, Larsson).

Not sure you can really say we rushed Urbom or Matteau.

[coldply123]

gio is not going to be used as a 13th forward not even sure why you would get that idea? There have been no signs by anyone that he woyld be coming out of the line up the coaching staff obviously likes the guy

 

Because it's a good idea and quite practical and reasonable at that?  And one needs to question the coaching staff with how deplorable a job they have done stretching back to last year.

[NJDevs4978]

Not sure you can really say we rushed Urbom or Matteau.

 

He played his first games as a 19-year old.  Maybe you could argue he didn't play enough to be considered rushed since he only had 14 NHL games with us but it got a point with him where he went from being our best d-prospect to being expendable.  Matteau was even younger and absolutely rushed last year, he wouldn't have been anywhere near the NHL if it wasn't for our hideous forward situation and he certainly wouldn't have stayed beyond the five games if Zubrus didn't get hurt.  He was playing double-digit minutes most of the time here.

[ATLL765]

He played his first games as a 19-year old.  Maybe you could argue he didn't play enough to be considered rushed since he only had 14 NHL games with us but it got a point with him where he went from being our best d-prospect to being expendable.  Matteau was even younger and absolutely rushed last year, he wouldn't have been anywhere near the NHL if it wasn't for our hideous forward situation and he certainly wouldn't have stayed beyond the five games if Zubrus didn't get hurt.  He was playing double-digit minutes most of the time here.

I really don't think a few NHL games ruins a player's development. Maybe if they both played out a season with us way before they were ready, sure, but I really doubt that less than 25% of an NHL season will ruin a prospect. I mean, Matteau played almost that with 17, but Urbom got 8 games, a full year after he was drafted, then 5 the next year and 1 the year after that.

[Triumph]

Let Boucher and Merrill stay down for the year and get ready, we've rushed kids a lot lately and it hasn't really worked out for us (Urbom, Josefson, Matteau, Larsson).

 

You can't want Merrill to stay in the minors all year and for the Devils to trade a defenseman on the roster.  That would leave NJ with 6 guys + Gelinas and a bunch of guys in the minors with 0 NHL experience, the best of whom is clearly Merrill.  

 

Merrill will probably get some games anyway, even as #9 on the depth chart.  Injuries happen.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Triumph

[Daniel]

You can't want Merrill to stay in the minors all year and for the Devils to trade a defenseman on the roster. That would leave NJ with 6 guys + Gelinas and a bunch of guys in the minors with 0 NHL experience, the best of whom is clearly Merrill.

Merrill will probably get some games anyway, even as #9 on the depth chart. Injuries happen.

Why is 7 defenseman with one being Gelinas such a calamity?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Triumph]

Why is 7 defenseman with one being Gelinas such a calamity?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

Because as I just explained, the previous poster wanted Merrill to stay in the minors all year.  You're not likely to have both - if you ditch a defenseman, Merrill is 8th, and the 8th guy almost always plays in an 82 game season.

 

Even so, I don't want it because it's good to have more players capable of playing.  

Edited October 29, 2013 by Triumph

[NJDevs4978]

I mean Merrill can play ten games as an injury callup to get his feet wet, I just don't want him as a regular.  You're too wrapped up in who the #8 defenseman is, odds are if you're at a point where the #8 defenseman is playing over half the games you're in trouble regardless. This isn't NHL14, you can't hoard NHL defensemen in the minors or in the scratch box indefinitely for a rainy day when they need wins now and the best people need to play and the young defensemen need to develop.

Edited October 29, 2013 by NJDevs4978

[Daniel]

I mean Merrill can play ten games as an injury callup to get his feet wet, I just don't want him as a regular. You're too wrapped up in who the #8 defenseman is, odds are if you're at a point where the #8 defenseman is playing over half the games you're in trouble regardless. This isn't NHL14, you can't hoard NHL defensemen bein the minors or in the scratch box indefinitely for a rainy day when they need wins now and the best people need to play and the young defensemen need to develop.

Who knows, he could get called up, play real well, and be here for good.

I wouldn't change the roster just to get him here this year, but I wouldn't assume that he can't be anything more than a garbage time stopgap.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[NJDevs4978]

Having 7 capable forwards, as the Devils did at the beginning of 11-12, didn't do them a lot of good either.  And thankfully the offense was horrible in 10-11 so everyone here forgets the Magnan-Corrente days on defense.  Getting caught with sub-replacement players sucks.

 

Except those guys weren't the eighth defensemen, they were more like the tenth-eleventh defensemen.  Sal got hurt before the year, missed the season.  Volch and Fraser missed significant time the first couple months.  Taormina was the first month revelation and then he got hurt never to be seen again.  Nobody's going to overcome 'that' amount of injuries and with our lack of system it wouldn't have mattered anyway.  The quality guys we had were playing like crap never mind those guys.

[Triumph]

I mean Merrill can play ten games as an injury callup to get his feet wet, I just don't want him as a regular.  You're too wrapped up in who the #8 defenseman is, odds are if you're at a point where the #8 defenseman is playing over half the games you're in trouble regardless. This isn't NHL14, you can't hoard NHL defensemen in the minors or in the scratch box indefinitely for a rainy day when they need wins now and the best people need to play and the young defensemen need to develop.

 

Your position here is utterly contradictory.  You say 'You can't hoard NHL defensemen in the minors' and then you say 'I want Merrill in the AHL indefinitely' and bemoan the Devils' tendency of 'rushing prospects'.  It doesn't add up, unless you have a constant stream of NHL players coming out of your AHL system.  

 

I'm not too wrapped up in who the 8th defenseman is, I want my team to be good even if it suffers injuries, and the #8 defenseman plays, period.  He plays a lot of games for most teams - at least 30 games.  I'd rather have someone who can play than who cannot play.  Past Merrill, NJ only has 4 D even signed to NHL contracts (Burlon, Helgeson, Scarlett, Hraberenka), two of whom are clearly not ready for NHL action.

 

As for 2010-11, you're forgetting Fayne, who was #10 on the depth chart but got up here, played very well, and was never sent back to the minors.  There was also Salmela who was hurt all season up until December.  Generally that's not what happens though, generally you get guys who are awful, and so your top guys have to play 25-26 minutes a game.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Triumph

[NJDevs4978]

Now indefinitely = this year? There's nothing contradictory about it, Merrill hasn't played a full length season yet, he should get used to the everyday grind in the AHL for most of this season. Gelinas has been in the AHL for multiple seasons, if he isn't ready now then he'll most likely never be.

Merrill's good enough to play as an injury fill in which is what the #8 guy is. Right now he's #9, even with a trade he'd be #8 which is fine. Especially if Harrold goes back to the role he should be in. I'm just tired of screwing up our assets. Losing Urbom for nothing, screwing around with Larsson, stunting Fayne's career (and having him walk for nothing too) I'm tired of it. Plus god forbid we trade one of the young d-man for a young forward, which we clearly need.

Edited October 29, 2013 by NJDevs4978

[jim777]

I thought Gelinas played pretty well the last few games, but I didn't see the whole games so I admit my sample size is small.

[NewarkDevil5]

I agree with Mr. Deboer. I would like nothing better than to anoint Gelinas as the second coming of Al MacInnis, but that'll have to wait until I've seen more of him than 3 NHL games total. I will however say that his presence back there, assuming he can be trusted to maintain his defensive game properly, is vitally intimidating once play reaches the offensive zone and opposing teams are going to have to adjust for him in ways they haven't against us in a long time. That in and of itself is vitally important to our offensive game and makes us a much more difficult team to play against.

 

Then, with his size, if Mr. Stevens can help him fine tune his game in the defensive zone, he can become quite the all purpose defenseman at this level. He's got all the tools necessary and thusfar his hockey sense has been pretty decent. If he can show that his last two games weren't just the rookie adrenaline and that this is really the player he is game in and game out then we'll have quite the star on our hands.

[Triumph]

Now indefinitely = this year? There's nothing contradictory about it, Merrill hasn't played a full length season yet, he should get used to the everyday grind in the AHL for most of this season. Gelinas has been in the AHL for multiple seasons, if he isn't ready now then he'll most likely never be.

Merrill's good enough to play as an injury fill in which is what the #8 guy is. Right now he's #9, even with a trade he'd be #8 which is fine. Especially if Harrold goes back to the role he should be in. I'm just tired of screwing up our assets. Losing Urbom for nothing, screwing around with Larsson, stunting Fayne's career (and having him walk for nothing too) I'm tired of it. Plus god forbid we trade one of the young d-man for a young forward, which we clearly need.

 

Losing Urbom for nothing is rough but it's a consequence of having players who can play in the NHL.  I don't hear much crying about this loss anymore since Gelinas came up.  Also Urbom has been a healthy scratch for Washington and his microstats look rather bad (small sample though) - it wouldn't surprise me if Washington stuck him on waivers again this season. Stunting Fayne's career?  Fayne is 26 years old.  He'll play in his 200th NHL game tonight.  His career is fine.  Larsson did not play well in the first 5 games - I think it's good to make players aware that if their play suffers, they won't play.  And yes, before you ask, he was clearly worse than Volchenkov.  The healthy scratches last year are too bad, but he's not better than Peter Harrold at this stage of his career.

 

Trading a young defenseman, after having lost Urbom, would be idiotic.  The Devils have Gelinas, Merrill, and Severson as potential NHLers in the next 2 years.  On their defense right now, there's 5 guys who are UFA either this year or next, and then Volchenkov, who I don't think will be here next year.  Salvador and Zidlicky could be on their final NHL contracts.  You think Fayne is definitely not here next year, and indeed, with how the coaching staff uses him when he is getting in games, that may be the case (although I don't think he has a ton of value around the NHL - someone's going to get a real good deal on him).  Now if they wanted to sign a big name UFA and then trade one of these guys for a forward, fine, but trading defense prospects is not easy, and the Devils don't have a bunch of D in their prime who are going to block these guys.  They have Larsson and that is it.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Triumph