I Have No Idea What I'm Talking About

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Fake Dano Night was a disaster. Stevens had the 'flu', they lost, Dano's mic cut out during his speech... At least we got a bobble-head lol. I still have mine.

 

I think they played Tampa Bay that night...the Devils took an early 1-0 lead, but I remember it going downhill after that.  I think they lost 4-1. But it was a weird night all-around...I think Daneyko himself was perplexed by the whole thing.   

[MadDog2020]

I think they played Tampa Bay that night...the Devils took an early 1-0 lead, but I remember it going downhill after that. I think they lost 4-1. But it was a weird night all-around...I think Daneyko himself was perplexed by the whole thing.

You're right, they played Tampa; I forget what the score was though. I really didn't understand the point of the first Dano night if they weren't retiring his number. They should've just had his number retirement ceremony and that's it. The Stevens 'flu' thing is what ruined the night for me more than anything in retrospect though. We didn't know it at the time, but we had seen Scott Stevens play his last game in the NHL.

[SterioDesign]

CC, it all kind of goes back to the same thing...there will always be a contingent of Devils' fans that thinks Lou never gets it done in these spots, and that contingent often not only ignores the many signings that Lou HAS gotten done (both pre-emptive and during UFA), but also glorifies the players that left (like Gio, Gomez, etc.) and leaves out the circumstances as to why they weren't traded or brought back.  They also pick random big signings around the NHL and take the grass-is-much-greener-over-there approach.   

 

Basically, there were people who assumed that Lou wouldn't get it done here, for no other reason than the idea that "Lou just loses guys, he always loses guys, blah blah blah...", when that is so untrue and so unfair.  Not saying Lou is perfect, no GM ever can be, and that he never make mistakes, because even good GMs make them, sometimes several of them, and I don't always agree with everything he does...but when it comes to retaining some key players (like Schneider), Lou is better at that than people give him credit for. 

 

you're missing the point totally here as you tend to exaggerate what people with different opinion than you says. Completely.

 

Some people doesnt like Lou's way of handling free agents. Saying "he's playing with fire" is different than saying "he's gonna fail". But yeah again, you always exaggerate.

 

Lou has been there a GM for like an ETERNITY. He might have signed guys a year before their contract expired and not after the season weeks before free agency.... less than 10 times. I can barely remember 5... IN ALL THAT SPAN. So let's forget results and all for a second... how the hell is it unfair to be a little worried that he MIGHT wait few weeks before free agency and that the player MIGHT want to see the interest around the league at that point cause the closer players gets to free agency even if they love their team, the more they start to think about the possibities, its a fact, it's been said by free agents over and over and by Zach himself too.

 

So again, why is it unfair to be a little worried that Lou does something he did for for like 97% of his tenure as a GM? like really. 

 

*** His career track record is useless to bring in discussion here cause situations are a lot different and players are not as loyal as they were either these days. Money talks a LOT and we're not a top destination like we we're before either, really not as attractive as we once was.

 

The "results" are really out of his hands at that point and he's putting his back against the wall hoping for the best. I'll never agree with that kind of business decision.

Edited July 29, 2014 by SterioDesign

[MadDog2020]

you're missing the point totally here as you tend to exaggerate what people with different opinion than you says. Completely.

Some people doesnt like Lou's way of handling free agents. Saying "he's playing with fire" is different than saying "he's gonna fail". But yeah again, you always exaggerate.

Lou has been there a GM for like an ETERNITY. He might have signed guys a year before their contract expired and not after the season weeks before free agency.... less than 10 times. I can barely remember 5... IN ALL THAT SPAN. So let's forget results and all for a second... how the hell is it unfair to be a little worried that he MIGHT wait few weeks before free agency and that the player MIGHT want to see the interest around the league at that point cause the closer players gets to free agency even if they love their team, the more they start to think about the possibities, its a fact, it's been said by free agents over and over and by Zach himself too.

So again, why is it unfair to be a little worried that Lou does something he did for for like 97% of his tenure as a GM? like really.

*** His career track record is useless to bring in discussion here cause situations are a lot different and players are not as loyal as they were either these days. Money talks a LOT and we're not a top destination like we we're before either, really not as attractive as we once was.

The "results" are really out of his hands at that point and he's putting his back against the wall hoping for the best. I'll never agree with that kind of business decision.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

SD, I brought up a scenario where MAF could be the Devils' long-term goalie solution in 2015 in beyond.  Brought it up more than once.  So I wasn't exactly trying to hide the fact that I too was "a little worried" until Cory signed on the dotted line.  I was talking about people who shared CC's assumption that Lou would never get it done, just because they mistakenly believe that Lou somehow always screws these things up.

 

About the exaggeration thing...that's ridiculous, but kind of par for the course for you.  So far two people on here have accused me of "exaggerating"...you and MB, which pretty much says all that needs to be said about that one.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Devil Dan 56]

you're missing the point totally here as you tend to exaggerate what people with different opinion than you says. Completely.

 

Some people doesnt like Lou's way of handling free agents. Saying "he's playing with fire" is different than saying "he's gonna fail". But yeah again, you always exaggerate.

 

Lou has been there a GM for like an ETERNITY. He might have signed guys a year before their contract expired and not after the season weeks before free agency.... less than 10 times. I can barely remember 5... IN ALL THAT SPAN. So let's forget results and all for a second... how the hell is it unfair to be a little worried that he MIGHT wait few weeks before free agency and that the player MIGHT want to see the interest around the league at that point cause the closer players gets to free agency even if they love their team, the more they start to think about the possibities, its a fact, it's been said by free agents over and over and by Zach himself too.

 

So again, why is it unfair to be a little worried that Lou does something he did for for like 97% of his tenure as a GM? like really. 

 

*** His career track record is useless to bring in discussion here cause situations are a lot different and players are not as loyal as they were either these days. Money talks a LOT and we're not a top destination like we we're before either, really not as attractive as we once was.

 

The "results" are really out of his hands at that point and he's putting his back against the wall hoping for the best. I'll never agree with that kind of business decision.

 

This record. It's broken. 

 

We know you miss Zach, but Zach HIMSELF said Lou didn't "wait till the last second." 

[ATLL765]

lol @ let's forget results. That's the only way to gauge things. It's completely ridiculous to make a blanket statement that waiting is always bad. If we started signing everyone a year before their contracts run out, it'd be a disaster when we end up stuck with a bunch of guys who declined in the last year of their deals.

Like was mentioned before, no one was really upset when certain guys left like Gionta, but for some reason he's brought up as a guy LL failed to keep. I don't remember for sure, but I thought it was clear that MTL was offering money that the team just wasn't interested in matching.

[mouse]

you're missing the point totally here as you tend to exaggerate what people with different opinion than you says. Completely.

 

Some people doesnt like Lou's way of handling free agents. Saying "he's playing with fire" is different than saying "he's gonna fail". But yeah again, you always exaggerate.

 

Lou has been there a GM for like an ETERNITY. He might have signed guys a year before their contract expired and not after the season weeks before free agency.... less than 10 times. I can barely remember 5... IN ALL THAT SPAN. So let's forget results and all for a second... how the hell is it unfair to be a little worried that he MIGHT wait few weeks before free agency and that the player MIGHT want to see the interest around the league at that point cause the closer players gets to free agency even if they love their team, the more they start to think about the possibities, its a fact, it's been said by free agents over and over and by Zach himself too.

 

So again, why is it unfair to be a little worried that Lou does something he did for for like 97% of his tenure as a GM? like really. 

 

*** His career track record is useless to bring in discussion here cause situations are a lot different and players are not as loyal as they were either these days. Money talks a LOT and we're not a top destination like we we're before either, really not as attractive as we once was.

 

The "results" are really out of his hands at that point and he's putting his back against the wall hoping for the best. I'll never agree with that kind of business decision.

And let's not ignore that zachs contract is lousy. At the time, with a bad Kovy contract on the books and a broke owner, we couldn't take a second. Even with a rich owner, it would be stupid to sign another guy to a stupidly long contract. It sucks to lose our guys. Sometimes it's Lou's fault, and the situation could have been avoided, but more often than not, another team offers someone stupid money, and Lou rightfully refuses to compete for him.

[SterioDesign]

* facepalm * fvck guys, you must have just skipped everything i said and replied on stuff i said months ago. unreal. Like 3-4 of you guys answered with something i havent said at all.

 

[SterioDesign]

lol @ let's forget results. That's the only way to gauge things. It's completely ridiculous to make a blanket statement that waiting is always bad. If we started signing everyone a year before their contracts run out, it'd be a disaster when we end up stuck with a bunch of guys who declined in the last year of their deals.

Like was mentioned before, no one was really upset when certain guys left like Gionta, but for some reason he's brought up as a guy LL failed to keep. I don't remember for sure, but I thought it was clear that MTL was offering money that the team just wasn't interested in matching.

 

let's not lol @ let's forget results. When you gauge/compare things based in 2 different "scenarios" you can't compare results directly, it's unfair and pretty common sense. Everything is not in black and white. 

 

All i stated is that we ALL know how Lou deals with UFAs, some agree with it, some doesn't.

 

Just pointing out it's a bit ridiculous when people were saying they were worried Lou might wait last minute with Cory (which was totally fair since thats what he did 97% of his career) then someone throw a "yeah keep ignoring that he signed Zajac a year before!" like the person is crazy to think that Lou might actually wait last minute, using a very very rare and isolated signing to make a case.

 

So call me crazy but yes, i do think you can't compare results from when we had a super solid squad guaranteed to be contenders years after year with no salary cap and all that sh!t and the situation the team is in right now. We're really not as attractive as we were, to get guys we have to overpay or get guys who have something to prove or want lots of ice time they wouldnt get somewhere else.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by SterioDesign

[Satans Hockey]

A lot of fans weren't even that sorry to see Gio go at the time.

I was excited that he left. I was sick of seeing him do the same thing every game, his favorite move was a shot straight into the team logo and it use to drive me insane.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I was excited that he left. I was sick of seeing him do the same thing every game, his favorite move was a shot straight into the team logo and it use to drive me insane.

 

Yeah, I used to call that shot the Logoseeker.  I wasn't sorry to see him go...I know overpayment is the norm in UFA, but when I saw what he got from the Canadiens I was fine with Lou not matching or exceeding it. 

[DevsMan84]

I still can't believe he scored 48 goals in a season with us once.  He never got even close to that again.

 

Wasn't upset at all to see him go.  I think he got $5M per from Montreal and back in 2009 with the cap being a good deal lower that was a ton.

[Devils Pride 26]

Scoring 48 goals was the worst thing that happened to Gio. He was a real pain in the ass to play against, camping out in front, driving the net, etc. It wasn't until after that season that he would take pretty weak, clarkson esqe shots when gaining the zone

[ATLL765]

I still can't believe he scored 48 goals in a season with us once.  He never got even close to that again.

 

Wasn't upset at all to see him go.  I think he got $5M per from Montreal and back in 2009 with the cap being a good deal lower that was a ton.

Yeah, I recall the feeling was that it was a good move to not match that offer. I feel like that was an overwhelming consensus amongst the fans too.

[Triumph]

Scoring 48 goals was the worst thing that happened to Gio. He was a real pain in the ass to play against, camping out in front, driving the net, etc. It wasn't until after that season that he would take pretty weak, clarkson esqe shots when gaining the zone

 

I don't really buy this at all.  His shot rate stayed pretty similar when you figure he wasn't playing a ton on the PP in 03 or 04.  You just noticed more of those shots because Gionta was the team's top RW instead of being just another guy.  You're going to tell me that in 2003-04 when he played barely any time at all on the PP and he averaged 9.44 shots/60 minutes that he wasn't creating tons of crest killers then?  I don't believe it.  What changed is your expectations for him.

 

He had two other seasons where he had .4 goals per game after his 48 goal season.  It was clearly a fluke season built on the preponderance of power plays and a healthy dose of shooting luck, but he's still 50th in goals scored since 2006-07.  That contract didn't work out too bad for Montreal all things considered - I'm hoping the Cammalleri deal can have similar returns (and yes I recognize the Gionta deal was bigger because it was on a smaller cap).

Edited July 30, 2014 by Triumph

[Devil Dan 56]

let's not lol @ let's forget results. When you gauge/compare things based in 2 different "scenarios" you can't compare results directly, it's unfair and pretty common sense. Everything is not in black and white. 

 

All i stated is that we ALL know how Lou deals with UFAs, some agree with it, some doesn't.

 

Just pointing out it's a bit ridiculous when people were saying they were worried Lou might wait last minute with Cory (which was totally fair since thats what he did 97% of his career) then someone throw a "yeah keep ignoring that he signed Zajac a year before!" like the person is crazy to think that Lou might actually wait last minute, using a very very rare and isolated signing to make a case.

 

So call me crazy but yes, i do think you can't compare results from when we had a super solid squad guaranteed to be contenders years after year with no salary cap and all that sh!t and the situation the team is in right now. We're really not as attractive as we were, to get guys we have to overpay or get guys who have something to prove or want lots of ice time they wouldnt get somewhere else.

 

If we can;t compare results from back then with now, then why is it ok to say that's how Lou has done things forever? You can't have it both ways. You can't say "Lou has done this forever", then get mad when people point out that it worked back then, then say "well Lou does it now" and then get mad when people point to recent examples (Zajac, Schneider) which show that he doesn't if he can help it. Other than Zach, what major free agent did the Devils lose that didn't either get more than the Devils could or would offer or have an outside reason to leave?

 

Yes, Lou likes to negotiate at the end of the season (which is his preferred strategy) but with certain players, he's talked during the season (Stevens, Brodeur, and Zach who said himself that Lou didn't wait too long)

[Triumph]

If we can;t compare results from back then with now, then why is it ok to say that's how Lou has done things forever? You can't have it both ways. You can't say "Lou has done this forever", then get mad when people point out that it worked back then, then say "well Lou does it now" and then get mad when people point to recent examples (Zajac, Schneider) which show that he doesn't if he can help it. Other than Zach, what major free agent did the Devils lose that didn't either get more than the Devils could or would offer or have an outside reason to leave?

 

Yes, Lou likes to negotiate at the end of the season (which is his preferred strategy) but with certain players, he's talked during the season (Stevens, Brodeur, and Zach who said himself that Lou didn't wait too long)

 

I think we'd think differently about this had he been able to negotiate a deal with Elias early.  But given that Elias's career was possibly over in 2005 and that the cap number was vital to what number the Devils could ultimately offer Patrik once everything got settled, he had to wait.  It's obvious now from Zajac and Schneider that Lou is willing to deal with players a year early, but again, it's also up to the player.  I don't think Gomez would've signed a long-term deal in 2006 no matter what he was offered (and indeed, the Devils really couldn't offer much).

Edited July 30, 2014 by Triumph

[Zubie#8]

SD, you say NJ isn't desirable to free agents unless we have to overpay for free agents. Thats a contradiction. That's what free agency is, if you want free agents you have to pay a little more.

[DevsMan84]

SD, you say NJ isn't desirable to free agents unless we have to overpay for free agents. Thats a contradiction. That's what free agency is, if you want free agents you have to pay a little more.

 

Not always.  Vanek and Boyle took less money to play somewhere else when the Islanders offered more.

 

Money talks, but there are other factors in as well.  I have to admit the part I agree with SD on is that NJ isn't as attractive of a place to be in as they once were.  The ownership situation has been fixed but missing the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years and playing in the shadow of a couple big market teams (Rags and Flyers) are things that players must consider.  Speaking on the last part I know Marty and a few hours have openly said they enjoyed the relative normalcy of their lives being in NJ but there are plenty of players who find the allure of bigger cities too much to pass up.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

SD, you say NJ isn't desirable to free agents unless we have to overpay for free agents. Thats a contradiction. That's what free agency is, if you want free agents you have to pay a little more.

 

I think he's implying that no outside UFAs are willing to take discounts to come here, and that NJ had to overpay even more than some other teams might, but in reality, how many guys take serious discounts to go to a certain team?  Even guys like Clarkson and Parise, who "went home", didn't exactly leave lots of coin on the table to do that. 

[Triumph]

I was going to argue that yeah, SD's got a point - the Devils would never get a guy like Brad Richards to sign here for $2M.  But then I thought of Jagr and Zidlicky and how they are playing for a combined $9.5M with some of that in bonuses and I reversed my position somewhat.

 

I don't think the Devils as a free agent destination are any more or less desirable than they ever were.  Did Rolston take less to come back?  Did Kovalchuk take less?  How about Dainius Zubrus?  Or before that - did Scott Stevens or Martin Brodeur really sign for significantly below-market?

 

EDIT:  Eh, I guess Brodeur did, he probably could've gotten $7M on the open market in 2006 had he made it there.  Still, he signed a 6 year contract when he was 34 - that deal would've been looked at as insane when it was signed.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Triumph

[Zubie#8]

You guys are nitpicking here. Of course there are individual cases here and there of players taking pay cuts to stay with or go to a team. Hell as Tri said Marty and Zid took less to stay here. But overall free agents will always get overpaid by all the teams in the league. It's the nature of the beast. You say Vanek to Minny is a discount but Minny had to throw massive contracts at Parise and Suter. You say Boyle is a discount but a few years ago they threw a massive contract at Richards. Every team will have massive contracts, overpayments and player discounts over the years. NJ isn't some barren wasteland like many people portray it as.

Edit: is it training camp yet? Tis the summer of beating dead horses.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Zubie#8

[Zubie#8]

Add Greene as another Devil who could have easily gotten more on the open market.