Chuck the Duck Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 A class action lawsuit has been filed against the Devils claiming the team has violated state law by restricting STH's ability to re-sell their tickets. http://www.njlawjournal.com/this-weeks-news/id=1202724242933/Class-Suit-Targets-Devils-StubHub-Restrictions?mcode=1202617207189&curindex=0 I'm interested to see where this goes. The fact of the matter is that you reach a much larger audience of people looking for tickets on Stubhub, as opposed to TicketExchange (especially for the Devils and Yankees). I believe that fans should be able to re-sell their tickets on whatever marketplace they choose. If the Devils and Ticketmaster want your business, they should become competitive with StubHub and charge the seller less of a % on resale in order to gain the business, rather than strong arm people into using their service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeDev Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Don't think anything can really come of it.... If you think about it, you buy devils season tickets. That means you agree to their rules. So therefore you really can't try to sue when you've clearly agreed to only use TicketExchange when you bought your tickets... eh but what do I know.. this is America and you could sue for anything also I was a comp sci major not law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Before reading the article, I thought it might be an antitrust suit, but apparently it claims violations of NJ consumer protection laws. I imagine the resale policy was pretty thoroughly vetted from a legal standpoint, so I kind of doubt that it goes anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Before reading the article, I thought it might be an antitrust suit, but apparently it claims violations of NJ consumer protection laws. I imagine the resale policy was pretty thoroughly vetted from a legal standpoint, so I kind of doubt that it goes anywhere. Agreed. This will be thrown out pretty fast. Can't imagine the Devils didn't have a small army of lawyers look over the policy beforehand to prevent lawsuits such as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The solution is don't buy season tickets if you wish to sell those games that you can't attend. Personally I gave up my season tickets when the Devils decided they want to control my purchases. Besides the ice product wasn't worth price of the tickets. Just another marketing losing strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The solution is don't buy season tickets if you wish to sell those games that you can't attend. Personally I gave up my season tickets when the Devils decided they want to control my purchases. Besides the ice product wasn't worth price of the tickets. Just another marketing losing strategy. It's not a marketing strategy, it's a BS little fine print in the terms and conditions that people are making way too big of a deal over. Doesn't help that we suck, so people use it as an excuse to not get season tickets anymore (and not have to see our team suck another year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) I hope they win. Hell where can I sign up? The Devils can go fvck themselves over their stance on this. Edited April 22, 2015 by Satans Hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Don't think anything can really come of it.... If you think about it, you buy devils season tickets. That means you agree to their rules. So therefore you really can't try to sue when you've clearly agreed to only use TicketExchange when you bought your tickets... eh but what do I know.. this is America and you could sue for anything also I was a comp sci major not law I'm an attorney, and not having researched the issue at all, I think this would be my position. You bought the tickets, you agreed to the terms including this one. You had the option, having been aware of the terms (or, you should have been), to not buy the tickets. Whining about how you can or cannot sell them when you agreed on how you would do so is kind of disingenuous. And while you CAN sue for anything, it doesn't mean you can win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) Wouldn't the question be are the Devils even allowed to restrict sales from stubhub? The Devils are saying you can sell your tickets on ticket exchange, a company they don't own but you're not allowed to sell on stubhub, also a company they dont own. I don't claim to know anything about law but it just doesn't seem right. It's essentially creating a ticket exchange monopoly. Stubhub is already suing the golden state Warriors in the NBA for doing what they Devils are doing. Edited April 23, 2015 by Satans Hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 That is a good question, and StubHub has an interest in proving that. But StubHub didn't agree to the Devils' (or Warriors) terms, they have standing to bring such a lawsuit. Limitations on your rights can be included in a contract as long as they aren't unconscionable. And since you can still sell your tickets, it's not unconscionable. And there is no monopoly, obviously, because there's still tons of Devils tickets for sale on StubHub and elsewhere. Also, is the limitation placed on ALL tickets, or just season tickets? If it's just season tickets, that's even more reason they can limit resale, because you are trading that right for whatever benefits season tickets find with (I assume cheaper price, special events, etc). If you don't want to be so limited, you could in theory buy tickets to all of the home games and not be limited as to where you can resell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I hope they win. Hell where can I sign up? The Devils can go fvck themselves over their stance on this. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I sold 20 games on stubhub this season and didn't have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I sold 20 games on stubhub this season and didn't have a problem. There you go. No shortage of tix on StubHub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If my agent ever did try to pull something on me I'll tell them I drive 80 minutes 20 plus times a season to watch this team play. They would lose one of the few season ticket holders in Ocean County. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matteau#32 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I thought, they revoked tickets for those who sold more than 50% of their games? And, where they were sold was irrelevant? I have sold some on stubhub, won't any longer, but I never posted the actual seat numbers. So, if the Rangers or Giants wanted to pull this against me, not sure how they could prove I sold my tickets. For the Giants, I always send my hard tickets, for the Rangers I never use instant download. I simply email the pdf tickets to my self, then upload them to stubhub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matteau#32 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 That is a good question, and StubHub has an interest in proving that. But StubHub didn't agree to the Devils' (or Warriors) terms, they have standing to bring such a lawsuit. Limitations on your rights can be included in a contract as long as they aren't unconscionable. And since you can still sell your tickets, it's not unconscionable. And there is no monopoly, obviously, because there's still tons of Devils tickets for sale on StubHub and elsewhere. Also, is the limitation placed on ALL tickets, or just season tickets? If it's just season tickets, that's even more reason they can limit resale, because you are trading that right for whatever benefits season tickets find with (I assume cheaper price, special events, etc). If you don't want to be so limited, you could in theory buy tickets to all of the home games and not be limited as to where you can resell them. I am not an attorney, but it definitely seems like an anti-trust thing to me. Considering ticketdisaster is a primary source, and now they are telling you you have to use their secondary service? Does the ticketsnow or ticketexchange or whatever the hell ticketdisaster calls it now set minimum prices? I know for the Rangers the minimum was the face value. Makes it a pain in the butt to sell pre-season games. To me, it is the Devils simply trying to artifically protect the value of their tickets. They seem to give very nice discounts for season packages as opposed to individual ticket prices. So, the STH can undercut the individual price and still make a few dollars. If they were more realistic about the price of their tickets, it wouldn't be an issue. Has been the same argument I have had with ticket reps from the Mets for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoArmySports Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I am not an attorney, but it definitely seems like an anti-trust thing to me. Considering ticketdisaster is a primary source, and now they are telling you you have to use their secondary service? Does the ticketsnow or ticketexchange or whatever the hell ticketdisaster calls it now set minimum prices? I know for the Rangers the minimum was the face value. Makes it a pain in the butt to sell pre-season games. To me, it is the Devils simply trying to artifically protect the value of their tickets. They seem to give very nice discounts for season packages as opposed to individual ticket prices. So, the STH can undercut the individual price and still make a few dollars. If they were more realistic about the price of their tickets, it wouldn't be an issue. Has been the same argument I have had with ticket reps from the Mets for a few years. The team itself sets the floor for ticket exchange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs26 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I sold 20 games on stubhub this season and didn't have a problem. I sold a bunch too, thankfully StubHub added the option not to list your seat numbers so that helps keep their Inspector Javerts at bay for the moment. I only sold one pair instant download and that was literally last-minute after I ran out of time on Ticketexchange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I sold a bunch too, thankfully StubHub added the option not to list your seat numbers so that helps keep their Inspector Javerts at bay for the moment. I only sold one pair instant download and that was literally last-minute after I ran out of time on Ticketexchange. If nothing else, excellent Inspector Javert reference. Not anticipated on a hockey site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I think they only want Ticket exchange because they sell their own tickets through that at a discounted rate. Sometimes there's 20 seats in a row available. That has to be the team selling, no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 I think they only want Ticket exchange because they sell their own tickets through that at a discounted rate. Sometimes there's 20 seats in a row available. That has to be the team selling, no one else. No doubt you are correct. But they also want you to use Ticketexchange because they have an exclusive deal with Ticketmaster and, likely, receive a cut of the fees from the resale of the tickets. The Devils aren't alone in this double dipping scheme by any means as the Ticketmaster agreements that are in place with most teams create a direct financial interest for the teams to do everything in their power to limit the ability of fans to use Ticketmaster's competitors. Ticketmaster has a virtual monopoly in the primary ticket sale marketplace. The secondary market is where they lag far behind the likes of StubHub. Ticketmaster has tried to leverage their power and existing relationship with sports teams for the direct sale of tickets to take over the secondary marketplace, with mixed results to date. Personally, I know that selling Giants tickets on Ticketexchange is easy, as there is a lot of traffic to that site. However, selling Devils tickets on Ticketexchange is almost impossible as nobody seems to go there to buy. Stubhub us much better for selling Devils tickets IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 No doubt you are correct. But they also want you to use Ticketexchange because they have an exclusive deal with Ticketmaster and, likely, receive a cut of the fees from the resale of the tickets. The Devils aren't alone in this double dipping scheme by any means as the Ticketmaster agreements that are in place with most teams create a direct financial interest for the teams to do everything in their power to limit the ability of fans to use Ticketmaster's competitors. Ticketmaster has a virtual monopoly in the primary ticket sale marketplace. The secondary market is where they lag far behind the likes of StubHub. Ticketmaster has tried to leverage their power and existing relationship with sports teams for the direct sale of tickets to take over the secondary marketplace, with mixed results to date. Personally, I know that selling Giants tickets on Ticketexchange is easy, as there is a lot of traffic to that site. However, selling Devils tickets on Ticketexchange is almost impossible as nobody seems to go there to buy. Stubhub us much better for selling Devils tickets IMO. No doubt you are correct. But they also want you to use Ticketexchange because they have an exclusive deal with Ticketmaster and, likely, receive a cut of the fees from the resale of the tickets. The Devils aren't alone in this double dipping scheme by any means as the Ticketmaster agreements that are in place with most teams create a direct financial interest for the teams to do everything in their power to limit the ability of fans to use Ticketmaster's competitors. Ticketmaster has a virtual monopoly in the primary ticket sale marketplace. The secondary market is where they lag far behind the likes of StubHub. Ticketmaster has tried to leverage their power and existing relationship with sports teams for the direct sale of tickets to take over the secondary marketplace, with mixed results to date. Personally, I know that selling Giants tickets on Ticketexchange is easy, as there is a lot of traffic to that site. However, selling Devils tickets on Ticketexchange is almost impossible as nobody seems to go there to buy. Stubhub us much better for selling Devils tickets IMO. You are so correct, Devils don't have the interest that the Giants have. However while the Devils program is a bad deal for the STHs I don't see this suit having traction, especially since the brothers think they will get $5M from it. It will be interesting to follow. The Devils legal group will get help from all sports team in the majors, NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB. It about owners getting revenue, the mighty dollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matteau#32 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I think they only want Ticket exchange because they sell their own tickets through that at a discounted rate. Sometimes there's 20 seats in a row available. That has to be the team selling, no one else. Many teams are doing this. Pick some random baseball game, and you will be able to get 20 tickets together in the cheapest seats in the building. The worst example I ever saw was the 2008 divisional play-off between the Giants and Eagles. In both 1997 and 2000, I was able to get tickets at ticketmaster for the giants play-off game. Always in the upper corners. Everyone on line with me got the same general areas. In 2008, public onsale was strictly online. Started at 10am, I was on immediately and told nothing was available, but they had blocks of 8, 10, 12 tickets in the upper 300 corners for 3 times the alleged face value. I am not talking about a few blocks, I am talking hundreds of listings. At the time, my friend had 14 seats together, so it is possible SOME were from an actual season ticket holder, but no chance were they all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matteau#32 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 As a side, I am really hoping the fans win this case. Not because it is against the Devils, just hate this monopoly that ticketdisaster has. If it is legal to sell tickets, they should not be able to tell you how and where you have to sell the tickets. I would also love to see ticketdisaster sued for anti-trust violations. They should not be able to be a primary and secondary seller. Complete conflict of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Ticketmaster has a virtual monopoly in the primary ticket sale marketplace. The secondary market is where they lag far behind the likes of StubHub. Ticketmaster has tried to leverage their power and existing relationship with sports teams for the direct sale of tickets to take over the secondary marketplace, with mixed results to date. Personally, I know that selling Giants tickets on Ticketexchange is easy, as there is a lot of traffic to that site. However, selling Devils tickets on Ticketexchange is almost impossible as nobody seems to go there to buy. Stubhub us much better for selling Devils tickets IMO. I don't know, I can think of several instances where I was looking for extra tickets for family/friends and the Ticketmaster TicketExchange was slightly cheaper than StubHub (like $23 vs. $26). Whereas the year before, and previous years, StubHub would have $9 tickets and TicketExchange started at $35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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