Triumph Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 He scored and was also -1. He is still the worst defensive forward in the league with a -29......but he scored thank goodness. lol yeah that goal that bounced in off the boards was his fault, he should've been backchecking harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv4Life Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Well, some of you wanted a less selfish Kovy and now you've seen the byproduct of it. Yet he was still the best player on the ice. The sooner you-and management-realize he's here to score goals and not become Jay Pandolfo or John Madden v2, the better. And I don't feel for Lemaire at all. He's not helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Well, some of you wanted a less selfish Kovy and now you've seen the byproduct of it. Yet he was still the best player on the ice. The sooner you-and management-realize he's here to score goals and not become Jay Pandolfo or John Madden v2, the better. You're kidding, right? Where's the criticism of the player? It's the team's fault he sucks all over the ice? He's minus-29. That means he's doing very little right. And if Triumph wants to break his own rules by picking out instances where Kovalchuk got a minus but it wasn't his fault, then that's his prerogative. He's not "less selfish." He's just ineffective. He has no chemistry with linemates and he's inept defensively. Much of that is his fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Marv4Life, if you're just talking about yesterday, he was awful then, too, not "the best player on the ice. That first period was a disgrace. Kovalchuk played like a dope out there. Best player on the ice, my foot. I guess when he finally scored his 10th goal on a nice shot he was "the best player on the ice." What low standards for a guy who's supposed to be a star player. I'm nauseous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 kovalchuk's line probably generated as many scoring chances as the rest of the lines combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 lol yeah that goal that bounced in off the boards was his fault, he should've been backchecking harder I actually forgot he was on the ice for that one too. He should have extended his stick to block the puck instead of bracing for a light hit with his elbows up. But his heroic fall on the OTHER Minny goal was typical Kovy this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv4Life Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) You're kidding, right? Where's the criticism of the player? It's the team's fault he sucks all over the ice? He's minus-29. That means he's doing very little right. And if Triumph wants to break his own rules by picking out instances where Kovalchuk got a minus but it wasn't his fault, then that's his prerogative. He's not "less selfish." He's just ineffective. He has no chemistry with linemates and he's inept defensively. Much of that is his fault. Sort of? He needs better linemates that are somewhat close to his skill level. This is the type of guy you build around, not the other way around. If he's so ineffective, why was he so great in Atlanta? He was a +10 under Lemaire last year; what happened? I'm not a big fan of the 1 on 4, dipsy-doo crap but you know what you're getting. Ovechkin does that crap too. Kovy did it in Atlanta and nobody cared, even folks outside Atlanta. Take him out of his element or put him in a position where he's not comfortable in and this is what you get. It doesn't help I hear rumors of lockeroom resentment of the guy since the season started. Only Lou and the Devils can screw this up. But there's time for redemption... EDIT: Yes Jerry, even with the 1st period blunders, he was still the best player on the ice, and that's sad. Edited January 5, 2011 by Marv4Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn01 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 When JL was asked about the benching of Tedenby for last nights game, he replied, "I'll pass." -Bergen Record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Sort of? He needs better linemates that are somewhat close to his skill level. This is the type of guy you build around, not the other way around. If he's so ineffective, why was he so great in Atlanta? He was a +10 under Lemaire last year; what happened? I'm not a big fan of the 1 on 4, dipsy-doo crap but you know what you're getting. Ovechkin does that crap too. Kovy did it in Atlanta and nobody cared, even folks outside Atlanta. Take him out of his element or put him in a position where he's not comfortable in and this is what you get. It doesn't help I hear rumors of lockeroom resentment of the guy since the season started. Only Lou and the Devils can screw this up. But there's time for redemption... EDIT: Yes Jerry, even with the 1st period blunders, he was still the best player on the ice, and that's sad. in general, i don't agree with this. the issue with kovalchuk is that even though the team has been horrible, he hasn't really changed his game one bit. it's all about offense for him. i don't know if the coaches are telling him to change his game or if they're not even bothering, but the team is struggling - help out on defense once in a while. he saves all his energy for when his team gets the puck back, and that's not exactly working right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Marv, he was a consistent minus player in Atlanta, too. Marian Hossa, on the other hand, was not for two out of his three years as a Thrasher. Kovalchuk's style of play is not conducive to winning hockey. I think we have a big enough sample size. Maybe the Devils will be lucky and they'll get one of those outlier seasons when it all comes together despite Kovalchuk, and they'll win despite him. I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 it is also worth noting that no one is even close to kovalchuk's 20 goals in the last 65 games. let's go find some other devil wunderkinds since the kovalchuk trade: travis zajac: 14 G in 66 GP dainius zubrus: 10 G in 65 GP jamie langenbrunner: 9 G in 56 GP david clarkson: 8 G in 59 GP brian rolston: 4 G in 49 GP most of these guys don't play that much with kovalchuk. so what explains their performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Marv, he was a consistent minus player in Atlanta, too. Marian Hossa, on the other hand, was not for two out of his three years as a Thrasher. Kovalchuk's style of play is not conducive to winning hockey. I think we have a big enough sample size. Maybe the Devils will be lucky and they'll get one of those outlier seasons when it all comes together despite Kovalchuk, and they'll win despite him. I hope so. this, however, is a bunch of malarkey. one reason why kovalchuk piles up a lot of minuses is that he plays most of the power play and any short handed goals against are a minus. in 2006-07, he was almost certainly a + player at even strength. ditto 2005-2006. should these count against him? sure. but he's also playing on a rotten team with no defense, that never helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 this, however, is a bunch of malarkey. one reason why kovalchuk piles up a lot of minuses is that he plays most of the power play and any short handed goals against are a minus. in 2006-07, he was almost certainly a + player at even strength. ditto 2005-2006. should these count against him? sure. but he's also playing on a rotten team with no defense, that never helps. I believe Hossa was used on the power play. I have no proof, just an assumption. Why are the other Devils not scoring? I have analyzed the data and concluded that Kovalchuk has given them cooties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I believe Hossa was used on the power play. I have no proof, just an assumption. hossa also plays while shorthanded. playing shorthanded is a freeroll. hossa himself had 12 short handed goals as a thrasher, that's at least 12 free pluses. hossa is also a better defensive player than kovalchuk and controls more of the play, and he's likely a better player. if you look at even strength only they are much closer than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 this, however, is a bunch of malarkey. one reason why kovalchuk piles up a lot of minuses is that he plays most of the power play and any short handed goals against are a minus. in 2006-07, he was almost certainly a + player at even strength. ditto 2005-2006. should these count against him? sure. but he's also playing on a rotten team with no defense, that never helps. Speaking of malarky. This whole passage is pure BS and grasping at straws. If he is a such a liability on the PP where SHG's are an issue then he should not be there. Suffice to say his career +/- of -104 would NOT be impacted that greatly by SHGA. So are you saying that he is now playing for a rotten team and no defense? In spite of the fact we have a hall-of-fame goalie and our defense had the fewest GAA last year?? Kovalchuk's style of play is not conducive to winning hockey. Period. End of case. On the bright side, he scored his 20th goal for the Devils/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Uh, Kovalchuk is a winger and Hossa is a center. You're more likely to see a Center on a penalty kill than a winger.Being a minus is kind of standard for a winger just not -29. Kovy redeemed himself a bit last night by scoring the only goal. Putting him out there though with no other forwards with any defensive prowess is quite awful. Although Kovy scored the goal he was far from the best player last night. Clarkson, Sestito, Mair, Arnott, Elias and Palmieri come to mind. As a matter of fact the 4th line was pretty much responsible for digging us out of that 1st period mire. Edited January 5, 2011 by CarpathianForest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Speaking of malarky. This whole passage is pure BS and grasping at straws. If he is a such a liability on the PP where SHG's are an issue then he should not be there. Suffice to say his career +/- of -104 would NOT be impacted that greatly by SHGA. lol. kovalchuk has probably been on the ice for 40 short handed goals at least. there've been 80 scored against his teams in his career, and i don't think it's unfair at all to assume he's been out there for 2/3rds of them, so call it 60. he's also been on the ice for a ton of power play goals. So are you saying that he is now playing for a rotten team and no defense? In spite of the fact we have a hall-of-fame goalie and our defense had the fewest GAA last year?? there might be a statue of brodeur outside the rock when his career is done, and right now he is playing like that statue. the team defense with kovalchuk off the ice isn't much better, either. Edited January 5, 2011 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Who was the dude who was with Doc Emmerich? Did he even know that New Jersey had a hockey team? He called Palmieri Palmero a bunch of times and referred to Johan Hedberg as Jonathan Hedberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) lol. kovalchuk has probably been on the ice for 40 short handed goals at least. there've been 80 scored against his teams in his career, and i don't think it's unfair at all to assume he's been out there for 2/3rds of them. he's also been on the ice for a ton of power play goals. there might be a statue of brodeur outside the rock when his career is done, and right now he is playing like that statue. the team defense with kovalchuk off the ice isn't much better, either. Tri statues don't have holes in it. In fact they're quite solid. Marty...is more like swiss cheese, or a traffic cone. EDIT: UNless he's roman or greek...as such his fingers and balls have been cut off...that makes sense. Edited January 5, 2011 by HellOnICE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) lol. kovalchuk has probably been on the ice for 40 short handed goals at least. there've been 80 scored against his teams in his career, and i don't think it's unfair at all to assume he's been out there for 2/3rds of them, so call it 60. he's also been on the ice for a ton of power play goals. there might be a statue of brodeur outside the rock when his career is done, and right now he is playing like that statue. the team defense with kovalchuk off the ice isn't much better, either. Put a helmet on Rodin's Thinker. Perfect image of Marty sitting, thinking, "What the hell happened?!?!" Edited January 5, 2011 by CarpathianForest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Marty's been more like THE STINKER.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 So, Kovalchuk has been on the ice for a bushel of shorthanded goals in his career. Thank goodness the Devils don't draw a lot of penalties. Kovalchuk might be minus-32 ... but with 17 goals instead of 10. Yippee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 So, Kovalchuk has been on the ice for a bushel of shorthanded goals in his career. Thank goodness the Devils don't draw a lot of penalties. Kovalchuk might be minus-32 ... but with 17 goals instead of 10. Yippee. as usual, continue to miss the point. ovechkin's capitals have had 62 short handed goals scored against them since he came into the league. get him off that power play, he's killing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 as usual, continue to miss the point. ovechkin's capitals have had 62 short handed goals scored against them since he came into the league. get him off that power play, he's killing it! That's bad. Maybe the Caps should do something about that. How many has Zetterberg and Datsuyk given up? Back to Ovechkin. His team gives up shorties, yet he manages to be a plus player almost every year of his career (including plus-45 one year ... on a team with so-so defense and goaltending. He does it because he's a lot better than Kovalchuk in almost all areas on the ice and in almost every situation. Too bad for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 That's bad. Maybe the Caps should do something about that. How many has Zetterberg and Datsuyk given up? yeah great idea, let's compare kovalchuk and ovechkin to two guys who play with the greatest defenseman of our lifetimes. Back to Ovechkin. His team gives up shorties, yet he manages to be a plus player almost every year of his career (including plus-45 one year ... on a team with so-so defense and goaltending. He does it because he's a lot better than Kovalchuk in almost all areas on the ice and in almost every situation. Too bad for us. this happens to be true, but he also has way better teammates. if kovalchuk got to play with a mike green sort of player, his stats would look a lot better too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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