Daniel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Depends. Would we have to sign him ourselves (in that case the Devils should just keep and worry about Parise) or would the Jackets do a sign and trade so we don't have to worry about a contract. IF we trade Parise I rather not worry about the contract for the return we are (supposedly) getting. Nash is locked up for six more years at a $7.5 million cap hit, so another team wouldn't have to worry about losing him to free agency for a while. Also, there aren't any sign and trades in the NHL. But again, it makes no sense for either team. Columbus would not be able to resign Parise, and they have no use for him since they are in dead last and not making any sort of playoff run. It makes no sense for the Devils, since it would exacerbate their financial problems. Also, Parise is better than Nash. Nash has only 36 points and 18 goals this year. He has never scored more than 40 goals or 80 points in a season. Even if you can chalk this up to not having great teammates around him, it still does not close the gap. EDIT: Wrong about the 40 goals (he got there once), and he was on a point a game streak in 05-06 when he played only 54 games. Edited February 10, 2012 by Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLinfante Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) So many points to belabor here. I'll be as respectful as I can. 1) Nash is a beast. He is not over-rated by any means. I cannot express enough how foolish you are if you dont recognize his talent and ability. He is BY FAR my favorite player to watch in the NHL who is not a Devil. John Buccigross (incredibly sensible and reliable source) recently ranked his top 100 players. Zach was 14, Nash was 19. Im not saying that Parise is or isnt better, but they're that close. I would take either of them in a heartbeat on any team. 2)Columbus, in my estimation, has no chance at signing Zach, so this would be a terrible deal unless NJ threw in NHL ready youngsters and conditional picks (which someone in the thread has already alluded to). I feel that this could never be a player/player or even player/player, pick type deal. It would have to involve a lot of pieces moving around so that both sides felt that they were hedging their risk. 3) Columbus has (and will continue to have) high draft picks considering how terrible they are, so that's an interesting addition to this conversation. 4) Cam Atkinson would be a player I'd be very interested in acquiring. I watched him play at BC and he is tremendous. He was BC's replacement player for Gerbe when he left early. They are very similar players, and although they are small for the NHL, they will both be more productive than any wings we have in our system, especially Teddy and FacePalm, I mean NaPalm. EDIT: one last thing about Nash. I will admit that he's making a ton of money. If he played on a playoff team and was not a big producer, it would be looked at as a catastrophe. But, we could say the same thing about Zach in his first year after signing what will undoubtedly be a big money deal. Edited February 10, 2012 by NLinfante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitico12 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Tyutin perhaps depth defender like Aaron Johnson I thought Tyutin as well. I also think the Devils would like to add some "depth" forwards at the 3rd and 4th line spots, so blowing our wad thinking Parise for Nash is a bit out of proportion. However, Nash at $7 mil per year isn't that expensive. He's a top 10 goal scorer when he's at his best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Nash may be fun to watch but that doesn't make him good. I used to watch Ilya Kovalchuk on Center Ice a lot, but he's not particularly good, either. Nash's contract is a total disaster, and Columbus has actually been a pretty decent club from the net outwards. ^7^: Tyutin is signed for 6 more years, nor is he really better than the guys we've got (when healthy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I used to watch Ilya Kovalchuk on Center Ice a lot, but he's not particularly good, either. I watch Kovy a lot now. He's a great player, although overpayed. Tri, you can only be contrarian to a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLinfante Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Nash may be fun to watch but that doesn't make him good. I used to watch Ilya Kovalchuk on Center Ice a lot, but he's not particularly good, either. Nash's contract is a total disaster, and Columbus has actually been a pretty decent club from the net outwards. ^7^: Tyutin is signed for 6 more years, nor is he really better than the guys we've got (when healthy). Believe me when I say I'm not here to get into arguments with people, but... If Nash and Kovy aren't good, I'm dying to know what your definition of good is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onddeck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Ok everyone here is stating how much of a beast Nash is. Ok he is a great player and so is Zach. But keep in mind Zach is the heart of this team so if we dish him away we also lose that. Honestly I haven't watched much of Nash- is his style of play the same as parises? The gritty aggressive player who stays close to the net and will always give 110% is a player I think every team needs. The ONLY way I do this is if we were 100% sure we were fonna lose Zach anyway. BUT there's a only a small chance Columbus would do this in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Nash may be fun to watch but that doesn't make him good. I used to watch Ilya Kovalchuk on Center Ice a lot, but he's not particularly good, either. Nash's contract is a total disaster, and Columbus has actually been a pretty decent club from the net outwards. ^7^: Tyutin is signed for 6 more years, nor is he really better than the guys we've got (when healthy). I almost always agree with Tri but not this time. Illya is a great player and the transition he has made to NJ this year should exemplify that. I also think Nash is a good player although he just didn't live up to his expectations in Columbus. I wouldn't be surprised if he is traded then becomes much closer to what people expected. I feel the same way about Ales Hemsky. EDIT: That being said I don't think Zach should be traded. Edited February 10, 2012 by NJDevils1214 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLinfante Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I almost always agree with Tri but not this time. Illya is a great player and the transition he has made to NJ this year should exemplify that. I also think Nash is a good player although he just didn't live up to his expectations in Columbus. I wouldn't be surprised if he is traded then becomes much closer to what people expected. I feel the same way about Ales Hemsky. EDIT: That being said I don't think Zach should be traded. I agree 100% except for one point. I dont think that Nash hasnt lived up to expectations, or if he hasnt, then the expectations were preposterously unrealistic. Hockey is a team sport. The Jackets are a simply horrendous hockey club. They only have 15 wins. That's good enough for dead last in the league and 5 wins and 14 pts behind the last place (in the east) Hurricanes. No one player cannot save a team that bad. Edited February 10, 2012 by NLinfante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I watch Kovy a lot now. He's a great player, although overpayed. Tri, you can only be contrarian to a point. I'm not being contrarian. Kovalchuk does a lot of things extremely well and he does a lot of things very, very poorly. He has made some fantastic improvements this year; his defense is better than when he got here, for sure. I thought Holik made a great point in his blog - we don't see that much of Kovalchuk's fake outside, cut to the middle move, which the NHL has figured out. Still, on the forecheck, he still takes angles to the puck that no NHL player should be taking. He'll still lose the puck off his stick too easily. He's still too disinterested in board play. NLInfante: Kovalchuk and Nash are very good players, but I don't think either one is an elite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLinfante Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm not being contrarian. Kovalchuk does a lot of things extremely well and he does a lot of things very, very poorly. He has made some fantastic improvements this year; his defense is better than when he got here, for sure. I thought Holik made a great point in his blog - we don't see that much of Kovalchuk's fake outside, cut to the middle move, which the NHL has figured out. Still, on the forecheck, he still takes angles to the puck that no NHL player should be taking. He'll still lose the puck off his stick too easily. He's still too disinterested in board play. NLInfante: Kovalchuk and Nash are very good players, but I don't think either one is an elite player. That's fine with me. I might disagree, but at least I understand what you're getting at more precisely. There is obviously a big difference between saying someone "is not good" and "they are not elite". I appreciate you clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Nash is on a horrible, horrible contract, and is a really overrated player. We already have one of those. i am surprised that you think kovalchuk is overrated. i have been tremendously impressed with him lately. his passing has been great - he's forechecking hard - he gets shots and pushes the play forward. he's not an absolute black hole on defense and he plays what seems half the game from the forward position. he has been everything we could hope in the last 40 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Kovy is the team MVP this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevsftw Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Kovy is the team MVP this season. Hands down. I cant relate to hockey fans who don't recognize the absolute undeniable world class talent of mr Kovy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caron14 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Kovy is the team MVP this season. you are 110% right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 i am surprised that you think kovalchuk is overrated. i have been tremendously impressed with him lately. his passing has been great - he's forechecking hard - he gets shots and pushes the play forward. he's not an absolute black hole on defense and he plays what seems half the game from the forward position. he has been everything we could hope in the last 40 games. he's been great on the pk also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 i am surprised that you think kovalchuk is overrated. i have been tremendously impressed with him lately. his passing has been great - he's forechecking hard - he gets shots and pushes the play forward. he's not an absolute black hole on defense and he plays what seems half the game from the forward position. he has been everything we could hope in the last 40 games. Wrong word - Kovalchuk is actually being underrated by the media and fans of other teams after last year's fiasco. But he's getting to play with Parise and Elias now. If he can't produce with Parise and Elias, all hope is lost. That line SHOULD be dominating - if it isn't, the rest of the team's in pretty big trouble. He's on a excellent run now, there's no question, and circumstances are conspiring for him to look great - an unsustainably high S% on the PP in recent games, for instance. I'd still like to see better board play, a better forecheck, and for DeBoer to stop using him so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Nash may be fun to watch but that doesn't make him good. I used to watch Ilya Kovalchuk on Center Ice a lot, but he's not particularly good, either. Nash's contract is a total disaster, and Columbus has actually been a pretty decent club from the net outwards. This is flat out wrong. I think you and Manta should meet up for a drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Kovalchuk is really underrated for what he's bringing now... and im kinda sick of listening to people saying "he's not worth his contract"... what they don't fvcking understand is that the only thing that really matters now is the current cap hit... its over 15 damn years !!! he may not even play the whole thing... but they just keep on focusing on the damn "100 millions" tag... if you see it that way yeah i guess i also don't feel that my cellphone contract is worth $18,000 there's very few guys with a higher cap hit that i'd swap for Kovy to be in NJ if you take in consideration of what they bring and their cap hit. Malkin(8.7m), Weber(7.5m), Stamkos(7.5m), Chara(6.9m) Lundqvist (6.8m) and thats it... and even for Malkin im not 100% sure he's worth 2.1m more than Kovy. Crosby would be there but he's done i think. so it leaves about 23 guys with a bigger cap hit that i wouldnt want instead of Kovy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-SS Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Wrong word - Kovalchuk is actually being underrated by the media and fans of other teams after last year's fiasco. But he's getting to play with Parise and Elias now. If he can't produce with Parise and Elias, all hope is lost. That line SHOULD be dominating - if it isn't, the rest of the team's in pretty big trouble.He's on a excellent run now, there's no question, and circumstances are conspiring for him to look great - an unsustainably high S% on the PP in recent games, for instance. I'd still like to see better board play, a better forecheck, and for DeBoer to stop using him so much. Stop using him so much ? You use your best players as much as you can especially when they perform the way kovy have been performing. Who do you want to double shift instead of him and Parise ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This is flat out wrong. I think you and Manta should meet up for a drink. Manta thinks that the Devils will never win anything with Kovalchuk in the lineup because he's a toxic presence and whatever other nonsense he thinks. I think Kovalchuk's cap hit is $1M to $2M too high. There's a pretty massive difference, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Manta thinks that the Devils will never win anything with Kovalchuk in the lineup because he's a toxic presence and whatever other nonsense he thinks. I think Kovalchuk's cap hit is $1M to $2M too high. There's a pretty massive difference, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that. I'd suggest brushing up on your English, bud. Saying Kovalchuk isnt that good is a lot different than saying he is slightly overpaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'd suggest brushing up on your English, bud. Saying Kovalchuk isnt that good is a lot different than saying he is slightly overpaid. Of course, with no referent for 'good', everyone assumes I'm saying that Kovalchuk and Nash are bad, instead of using even the slightest bit of tolerance to understand that 'not that good' means 'not as good as everyone thinks.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Of course, with no referent for 'good', everyone assumes I'm saying that Kovalchuk and Nash are bad, instead of using even the slightest bit of tolerance to understand that 'not that good' means 'not as good as everyone thinks.' Lol 'not as good as everyone thinks' is still much different than 'hes slightly overpaid'. But anyway, no one can read your mind. There have been posters here who didnt think Kovalchuk could be a good player for this team so who knows if you were advocating this, as well? This is a messageboard on the internet. Its always wise to be clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onddeck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 "trade rumors" guys, "trade rumors" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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