sundstrom Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I am OK with losing this season if Fehr kills the Bettman and we have labor peace in perpetuity. if it's not bettman, it's someone else pushing the owners agenda. revenues have gone up, franchise values have gone up. why would the owners get rid of bettman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 if it's not bettman, it's someone else pushing the owners agenda. revenues have gone up, franchise values have gone up. why would the owners get rid of bettman? revenues and franchise values go up regardless of who is the commish. They went up under Calder, Dutton, Campbell, Ziegler, and Stein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 revenues and franchise values go up regardless of who is the commish. They went up under Calder, Dutton, Campbell, Ziegler, and Stein not like they have with bettman. trust me - the owners love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adavid Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Its 11/11. Do you know where your hockey teams are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Today would have been the day Parise returned to the Rock. Sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I said it a few weeks ago...Jeremy jacob is to blame way more than bettman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) "Contract Issues Emerge as Final Hurdle in N.H.L. Talks" http://www.nytimes.c...e-in-talks.html I doubt this is the only issue left but its a good read for the optimistic folks! Edited November 12, 2012 by Zubie#8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 if it's not bettman, it's someone else pushing the owners agenda. revenues have gone up, franchise values have gone up. why would the owners get rid of bettman? Oh, they have no reason to. But he has to work with the players once all this is resolved and that will be...interesting, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 "Contract Issues Emerge as Final Hurdle in N.H.L. Talks" http://www.nytimes.c...e-in-talks.html I doubt this is the only issue left but its a good read for the optimistic folks! That the league hasn't walked away completely after Fehr's hardball tactics and pessimistic statements to the press leads me to believe the owners are pretty desperate to get the seasons started. For all of the grief he gets, Fehr is very good at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Fehr is good at his job. But the owners will tell you that so is Bettman. He does their bidding and does it well...that's why he won't get fired anytime soon despite the fact that everyone outside of the owners generally hate him. Someone has to flinch first. Give Fehr credit for keeping the NHLPA so organized and galvanized through these negotiations. I still hate him though...but I hate Bettman more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Crash Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 That the league hasn't walked away completely after Fehr's hardball tactics and pessimistic statements to the press leads me to believe the owners are pretty desperate to get the seasons started. For all of the grief he gets, Fehr is very good at his job. Which or course is why the players hired him. It sucks for us, the fans, but if I was player, I too would want the best representing me in negotiations, not some guy who was going to get walked all over by the owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfsharkalligatorhalfman Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Fehr is very good at his job. Yeah I've been very impressed. He successfully determined the league wants to start the league back up by around december and the league earlier was just maneuvering to try and negotiate with the upper hand (i.e. with the players missing game checks every week). The fact that the league is supposedly frustrated by Fehr's "lack of urgency" tells me they are basically annoyed he's got the NHLPA united behind him so they aren't pressuring him to take a bad future deal to get game checks today. There are also reports the league is scared Fehr wants to miss the season so he can challenge the salary cap which is not a credible threat but that the league believes it means he's managed to find some leverage in a situation where he basically has almost none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yea, they're both so good at their jobs, it's mid-November and the rinks are dark. The least popular of the mainstream sports sinks further into oblivion. Great job all! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsfan26 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yea, they're both so good at their jobs, it's mid-November and the rinks are dark. The least popular of the mainstream sports sinks further into oblivion. Great job all! Their job here is to get the best deal for their side, starting the season on time isn't the top priority. Sucks for us, but that doesn't mean they're bad at what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Their job here is to get the best deal for their side, starting the season on time isn't the top priority. Sucks for us, but that doesn't mean they're bad at what they do. Then how come other leagues can start on time without all this bs every single time? Yeah I know it's not the players' responsibility to be playing when they're being locked out, but part of the perview of the league is to grow the game. The game can't grow if they keep having to recover from lockout after lockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Then how come other leagues can start on time without all this bs every single time? Yeah I know it's not the players' responsibility to be playing when they're being locked out, but part of the perview of the league is to grow the game. The game can't grow if they keep having to recover from lockout after lockout. Because a lock out isn't that unattractive to the owners since they, at least until a month or so ago, knew they'll get a good-to-great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 At this point I wish Steve Fehr and Bill Daly were doing the negotiating instead of Bettman and D. Fehr. At least they seem optomistic and want to get this deal done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Then how come other leagues can start on time without all this bs every single time? Yeah I know it's not the players' responsibility to be playing when they're being locked out, but part of the perview of the league is to grow the game. The game can't grow if they keep having to recover from lockout after lockout. NBA didn't start on time twice I believe. NFL at one time lost a large chunk of its season. MLB cancelled the World Series. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 NBA didn't start on time twice I believe. NFL at one time lost a large chunk of its season. MLB cancelled the World Series. It happens. You are dead on. Unfotunately, this is the way it goes with collective bargaining. It happens in sports, as well as everything from auto workers to airline stewards. As fans, we get caught in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) NBA didn't start on time twice I believe. NFL at one time lost a large chunk of its season. MLB cancelled the World Series. It happens. MLB canceled the World Series in 1994, 18 years ago. The NFL last lost games in 1987. Everything but the NBA (who lost 30 and 16 games in its two work stoppages, no playoff games though) you're talking about was a generation ago. This is a major lockout EVERY SEVEN YEARS in this sport, basically a seven-year lockout itch the owners get. Edited November 12, 2012 by NJDevs4978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 MLB canceled the World Series in 1994, 18 years ago. The NFL last lost games in 1987. Everything but the NBA (who lost 30 and 16 games in its two work stoppages, no playoff games though) you're talking about was a generation ago. This is a major lockout EVERY SEVEN YEARS in this sport, basically a seven-year lockout itch the owners get. The NFL doesn't lose games because NFL players have such a short career + NFL seasons are so short that losing one game is catastrophic for players and owners. Easy to come to terms there, although they did lose the Hall of Fame game in 2011. The NBA will prosecute the NHL's strategy, as they did last time, until the end of time. I don't see any reason why they won't, but there must've been a CBA in between 1999 and 2011 that was signed without issue. The issues the NHL have are more difficult - it doesn't have a great national TV contract, which puts the onus on individual teams to survive at the gate. Almost half the league is now playing in another league, meaning there isn't enormous pressure on the players to settle. And NHL fans are more die-hard - only NHL fans really missed hockey in 2005, and they walked right back in. Furthermore, the NHL keeps putting the date of the expiration of the CBA at September 15th, rather than over the summer like the NBA did (or in April, as the NFL did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsfan26 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Then how come other leagues can start on time without all this bs every single time? My point is that just because they haven't reached an agreement doesn't mean they are bad at their jobs. Whether or not they did a good job is going to be based on how good the CBA is for their side, not how soon they came to an agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Sam Carchidi @BroadStBull Daly tells Phila Inquirer sides r "very far apart. The players are asking for guaranteed dollars + a 'raise' year-over-year." #NHL #NHLPA Sam Carchidi @BroadStBull Bill Daly told CSN that the NHLPA's latest offer would have the players making 65% of the HRR in Year 1 of the deal. #HireMediator Edited November 13, 2012 by Zubie#8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 At this point I do not know who to believe. Both sides can go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Considering the NHL's claim about Fehr not informing the players in a timely fashion of what's going on got shot down hard, the obvious second move is to call Fehr irrational like he's incapable of bargaining, and I expect most hockey fans who are paying attention to this to fall for it. When of course, had Make Whole + a gradual decrease to 50% been talked about around September 15th, it could have worked, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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