NYC "Soda Ban"

[gardenstatepkwy]

I wanted to get everyones thoughts on Bloombergs recent attempt to ban soft drinks over 20oz in many aspects of NYC dining - which was struck down by a judge today.

 

My girlfriend and I differ as much as can be on this issue:

 

She says: It's just soda.  If people don't like it they can live somewhere else, right?

 

I say: Since when is it the governments job to tell me I can't have 21 ounces of soda if I want it?  Why should the government have any kind of role in that?  What's next, I can't have cheese on a burger because cheese makes the burger extra fattening? It's not the soda that upsets me it's the principal. Where does it end?  Whatever happened to personal accountability?  Why should someone who doesn't practice self control be allowed to ruin it for the majority of people who do?   

 

Edit:  Found this in a CNN artcile. Basically sums up my thoughts "...an illegal overreach that would infringe upon consumers' personal liberty."

 

What do you guys think?

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323826704578354543929974394.html

Edited March 11, 2013 by gardenstatepkwy

[DevsMan84]

While I applaud Bloomberg's concern over the public's health, he went too far with this one.

[Daniel]

It doesn't really keep me up at night, but it's idiotic whether you believe in state nannyism or not.  Even Bloomberg admitted it won't really cut down on the amount of sugar anyone can consume.  In the meantime, it just makes the cost of doing business more expensive, and hence, the cost to consumers more expensive. 

 

What really annoys me about a government campaign to respond the obesity "epidemic" (I put "epidemic" in scare quotes because AIDs is an epidemic, a lot of people lacking will power is not) is that keeping off weight and eating healthy takes will power and a disciplined upbringing, not silly laws from unserious people.  The self esteem industrial complex that the baby boomers have foisted upon us has done away with those two principles, and replaced them with feel good but do nothing gestures.  When it fails miserably, it's blame the corporations. 

[corzman69]

Better soda than beer. I'd hate to not be able to enjoy my 40oz. Olde English 800.

[Devils Pride 26]

Assault soda

[2ELIAS6]

Sounds absolutely ridiculous I'm glad that one didnt pass....not that I drink so much soda in NYC...just the general point of it is completely ridiculous

[devilsfan26]

While I applaud Bloomberg's concern over the public's health, he went too far with this one.

I feel the same way.  What the government should be doing instead is to stop subsidizing unhealthy products that are commonplace in Americans' diets.  Stuff like aspartame and high fructose corn syrup should not be so hard to avoid.

[Daniel]

I feel the same way.  What the government should be doing instead is to stop subsidizing unhealthy products that are commonplace in Americans' diets.  Stuff like aspartame and high fructose corn syrup should not be so hard to avoid.

 

They are easy to avoid if you have the will power to do it.  Don't drink soda.  Tap water in the US costs virtually nothing and is the cleanest in the world.  Any Walmart or Costco has a produce section as well as healthy frozen fish.  You can buy a dozen bananas for less than $2 at most places.

 

Of course this is hard to do.  I've seen a few episodes of Honey Boo Boo.  So far as I can tell, there's nothing stopping them from finding healthy food to eat.  Chips, soda, beer and whatever just taste better and are a lot easier.  You could end farm subsidies tomorrow, and I doubt you'll see much of a difference.

[DevsMan84]

They are easy to avoid if you have the will power to do it.  Don't drink soda.  Tap water in the US costs virtually nothing and is the cleanest in the world.  Any Walmart or Costco has a produce section as well as healthy frozen fish.  You can buy a dozen bananas for less than $2 at most places.

 

Of course this is hard to do.  I've seen a few episodes of Honey Boo Boo.  So far as I can tell, there's nothing stopping them from finding healthy food to eat.  Chips, soda, beer and whatever just taste better and are a lot easier.  You could end farm subsidies tomorrow, and I doubt you'll see much of a difference.

 

 

Healthy food also tends to cost more than the processed, starchy, or fatty crap you find in the supermarket.  A lot of times the fresh produce section in the supermarket is at or near the top of the most expensive items my gf and I buy at the supermarket.

 

Also where have you found a dozen bananas for $2?  At every supermarket near me (Shop Rite, Stop & Shop, Wegmans, etc.) $2 in bananas will buy me approximately 4-8 depending on the size.

Edited March 12, 2013 by DevsMan84

[Daniel]

Healthy food also tends to cost more than the processed, starchy, or fatty crap you find in the supermarket.  A lot of times the fresh produce section in the supermarket is at or near the top of the most expensive items my gf and I buy at the supermarket.

 

Also where have you found a dozen bananas for $2?  At every supermarket near me (Shop Rite, Stop & Shop, Wegmans, etc.) $2 in bananas will buy me approximately 4-8 depending on the size.

 

Trader Joe's bananas are 17 cents a pop.  I basically do all of my grocery shopping there, except for fish and some produce.  Carton of nonconcentrated OJ is $2.50 compared to the $5 Tropicana at Shopright (or $6 at CVS or a bodega).  Trader Joe's has frozen fish for cheap, but my wife and I splurge for fresh salmon at Whole Paycheck or Kings.  

[DevsMan84]

Trader Joe's bananas are 17 cents a pop.  I basically do all of my grocery shopping there, except for fish and some produce.  Carton of nonconcentrated OJ is $2.50 compared to the $5 Tropicana at Shopright (or $6 at CVS or a bodega).  Trader Joe's has frozen fish for cheap, but my wife and I splurge for fresh salmon at Whole Paycheck or Kings.  

 

 

I like Trader Joe's too and I try to go there as often as I can, but the two closest locations to me are Westfield and Princeton.  Both are about 30-40 minutes away if you factor in traffic.

[mouse]

The law would have been a cheap bandaid for a real problem. You want to fight obesity, especially in poor communities, you need to educate people about nutrition. My brother's girlfriend is studying to be a nutritionist, but still has less access to people that need her than she should. Also, the people who pay nutritionists tend to be rich, and have some knowledge of nutrition already. Get nutrition lessons into schools, even as part of gym classes, if you want to fight obesity.

[DevsMan84]

The law would have been a cheap bandaid for a real problem. You want to fight obesity, especially in poor communities, you need to educate people about nutrition. My brother's girlfriend is studying to be a nutritionist, but still has less access to people that need her than she should. Also, the people who pay nutritionists tend to be rich, and have some knowledge of nutrition already. Get nutrition lessons into schools, even as part of gym classes, if you want to fight obesity.

 

I do not think you need to consult a nutritionist to determine that fast food and soda is not good for you.  Below are what the most obvious reasons why obesity exists, especially in the poor communities:

 

1) Fast food is generally cheaper and easier to get than fresh food

2) The art of cooking from scratch is dwindling

3) More and more jobs require less manual labor

4) Crap food usually tastes better.

[Daniel]

The law would have been a cheap bandaid for a real problem. You want to fight obesity, especially in poor communities, you need to educate people about nutrition. My brother's girlfriend is studying to be a nutritionist, but still has less access to people that need her than she should. Also, the people who pay nutritionists tend to be rich, and have some knowledge of nutrition already. Get nutrition lessons into schools, even as part of gym classes, if you want to fight obesity.

 

My wife goes to a nutritionist.  It does cost a pretty penny, but the type of advice you get from a nutritionist does not make the difference between health and obesity.  They help you lose some extra pounds and otherwise give you practical advice for healthy eating and maintenance. 

 

You can stave off obesity with common sense and discipline.  I guess a typical example of an obese American is someone who was in a Weight Watchers group my wife went to, which was provided for FREE by her company since Weight Watchers was a client.  The woman would eat full pizzas at a time and buckets of KFC.  Her plan for losing weight was to eat less of the same crap on certain occasions,  For example, she pledged to eat only half a pizza one day a week when she would usually eat the whole thiing.  There was nothing stopping her from eating lean chicken, fresh vegetables, fruit or whatever, and I can't imagine that she didn't know that the stuff she was eating was bad for her.  In fact, she was specifically advised of it. 

[devilsfan26]

They are easy to avoid if you have the will power to do it.  Don't drink soda.  Tap water in the US costs virtually nothing and is the cleanest in the world.  Any Walmart or Costco has a produce section as well as healthy frozen fish.  You can buy a dozen bananas for less than $2 at most places.

 

Of course this is hard to do.  I've seen a few episodes of Honey Boo Boo.  So far as I can tell, there's nothing stopping them from finding healthy food to eat.  Chips, soda, beer and whatever just taste better and are a lot easier.  You could end farm subsidies tomorrow, and I doubt you'll see much of a difference.

Soda isn't the only thing that has high fructose corn syrup.  Read the ingredients under the nutrition facts.  I don't know about Trader Joe's because there isn't one near me, I didn't even know we had any in New Jersey, but at Pathmark almost everything you find has high fructose corn syrup and/or other artificial ingredients that are bad for you.  Cereal, ketchup, bread, etc.

[DevsMan84]

Soda isn't the only thing that has high fructose corn syrup.  Read the ingredients under the nutrition facts.  I don't know about Trader Joe's because there isn't one near me, I didn't even know we had any in New Jersey, but at Pathmark almost everything you find has high fructose corn syrup and/or other artificial ingredients that are bad for you.  Cereal, ketchup, bread, etc.

 

That's another thing. Pretty much everything that would have sugar in it has HFCS, which is pretty much anything you can think of.

 

I once read an article that made a claim that if HFCS was replaced in every item sold in the US with cane sugar, obesity rates would drop in the 10-20% range.

[Daniel]

That's another thing. Pretty much everything that would have sugar in it has HFCS, which is pretty much anything you can think of.

 

I once read an article that made a claim that if HFCS was replaced in every item sold in the US with cane sugar, obesity rates would drop in the 10-20% range.

 

I am skeptical about these types of claims, especially when it comes to nutrition, a lot of which remains unexplained.  (Someone once compared it to economics).  Here's a wikipedia snippet on the supposed health issues of HFCS:

 

Studies by the American Medical Association suggest "it appears

unlikely that HFCS contributes more to obesity or other conditions than

sucrose", but welcome further independent research on the subject.^[37] Further reviews in the clinical literature have disputed the links between HFCS and obesity,^[38] type 2 diabetes,^{[39][need quotation to verify]} and metabolic syndrome,^[38] and concluded that HFCS is no different from any other sugar in relationship to these diseases. HFCS has been classified generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration since 1976.^[40]

Yet further study showed that with dietary zinc (Zn) loss and copper

(Cu) gain from the consumption of HFCS, metabolic processes required to

eliminate heavy metals are impaired in autistic children.^[41]

While the growth of fructose consumption in many developed nations

coincides with the increase of prevalence of obesity, medical research

to date is inconclusive, with contradictory conclusions presented by

various research teams.^[42]

The consensus supported by many health professionals and nutrition

experts points at an overall excessive use of carbohydrates,

particularly sugar-sweetened beverages, that lead to weight gain, due to

a decreased effect on satiety.^[43]

While some high fructose corn syrups may claim that their product

contains all-natural ingredients, often the processing sequence involves

the use of artificial and synthetic agents.^[44]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fructose_corn_syrup

[devilsfan26]

There have also been studies that concluded that HFCS does contribute to obesity, and also affects brain function.

 

While we're on the topic of obesity, another thing that should be mentioned is exercise.  I know a lot of people who used to play sports and were active when they were younger, but don't do anything anymore.  I'm sure there are people like this all over the country.

[Daniel]

There have also been studies that concluded that HFCS does contribute to obesity, and also affects brain function.

 

While we're on the topic of obesity, another thing that should be mentioned is exercise.  I know a lot of people who used to play sports and were active when they were younger, but don't do anything anymore.  I'm sure there are people like this all over the country.

 

FWIW, the two nutritionists my wife has seen and other doctors I know say that while exercise can help, weight loss/gain is more related to genetics and diet.  No matter how much exercise you do, you're not going to slim down if you're eating pizza, fried chicken and chinese food on a regular basis.  Why do you think some football linemen are morbidly obese despite the amount of exercise they get.  Their diet is specifically tailored to keep them as big as possible.  People also tend to put on more weight as they age as metabolism slows.  If I ate what I ate when I was a teenager, I would probably weigh 300 pounds (back then, I weighed 170).

 

Also, be very careful about claims that something "affects brain function".  Most of the time, this claim is a truism in that everything you do and everything you eat affects brain function in some way.  A few quacks who go in front of congress every so often to talk about the dangers of violent video games make that claim.  The very act of playing any video game, whether it's Tetris, Super Mario Brothers or Grand Theft Auto affects brain function.

[DevsMan84]

Basically it all boils down to too much sugar is bad but OK in moderation.

[devilsfan26]

FWIW, the two nutritionists my wife has seen and other doctors I know say that while exercise can help, weight loss/gain is more related to genetics and diet.  No matter how much exercise you do, you're not going to slim down if you're eating pizza, fried chicken and chinese food on a regular basis.  Why do you think some football linemen are morbidly obese despite the amount of exercise they get.  Their diet is specifically tailored to keep them as big as possible.  People also tend to put on more weight as they age as metabolism slows.  If I ate what I ate when I was a teenager, I would probably weigh 300 pounds (back then, I weighed 170).

 

Also, be very careful about claims that something "affects brain function".  Most of the time, this claim is a truism in that everything you do and everything you eat affects brain function in some way.  A few quacks who go in front of congress every so often to talk about the dangers of violent video games make that claim.  The very act of playing any video game, whether it's Tetris, Super Mario Brothers or Grand Theft Auto affects brain function.

Some of my friends lost a lot of weight from changing their diet and running.  So you're saying they probably could have gone without the running and would have lost almost the same amount of weight?

[Daniel]

Some of my friends lost a lot of weight from changing their diet and running.  So you're saying they probably could have gone without the running and would have lost almost the same amount of weight?

 

I'm not a doctor, and don't have a science education that goes beyond high school, so don't take my word as gospel.  I'm only reporting what I've heard and my general experience and observations.  

 

If you want to make your own conclusion about the people you know, you'd have to ask how much running they did then compared to now, and what they were eating then compared to what they're eating now.  The more specifics the better.

 

Overall though, nutrition, health and weight gain are complex phenomena.  Just watch the news, and you'll notice a new "study" that seems to come out every day that contradicts the study you heard about a few days earlier. 

 

Like most things though, a little common sense, goes a long way.  We all know that some exercise is better than none and that vegetables and fish are better than soda and pizza, although a soda and pizza every so often isn't going to kill you. 

[devilsfan26]

I'm not a doctor, and don't have a science education that goes beyond high school, so don't take my word as gospel.  I'm only reporting what I've heard and my general experience and observations.  

 

If you want to make your own conclusion about the people you know, you'd have to ask how much running they did then compared to now, and what they were eating then compared to what they're eating now.  The more specifics the better.

 

Overall though, nutrition, health and weight gain are complex phenomena.  Just watch the news, and you'll notice a new "study" that seems to come out every day that contradicts the study you heard about a few days earlier. 

 

Like most things though, a little common sense, goes a long way.  We all know that some exercise is better than none and that vegetables and fish are better than soda and pizza, although a soda and pizza every so often isn't going to kill you. 

I wasn't doubting you about the exercise thing, I just found that interesting because I've never heard that before.  I majored in sport management and had to take a lot of classes that were for both my major and exercise science, so they of course put a lot of emphasis on the importance of staying active.  Even if exercising doesn't produce that big of a physical benefit, I think a part of staying healthy is reducing stress and staying active helps reduce stress, though I guess this could differ from person to person.

 

You can probably find a study that provides evidence for both sides of any issue.

 

And yeah it's not hard to avoid soda and pizza etc, but in my opinion the real challenge is to avoid eating foods that aren't processed and loaded with additives.  Stuff like bread, cereal, etc may not be as healthy and natural as it seems.

[DevsMan84]

I wasn't doubting you about the exercise thing, I just found that interesting because I've never heard that before.  I majored in sport management and had to take a lot of classes that were for both my major and exercise science, so they of course put a lot of emphasis on the importance of staying active.  Even if exercising doesn't produce that big of a physical benefit, I think a part of staying healthy is reducing stress and staying active helps reduce stress, though I guess this could differ from person to person.

 

You can probably find a study that provides evidence for both sides of any issue.

 

And yeah it's not hard to avoid soda and pizza etc, but in my opinion the real challenge is to avoid eating foods that aren't processed and loaded with additives.  Stuff like bread, cereal, etc may not be as healthy and natural as it seems.

 

I wil tell you one thing, my gf stopped buying the whole wheat bread at Trader Joe's because after looking at the label she found they put a decent amount of sugar in it.

[Daniel]

I wasn't doubting you about the exercise thing, I just found that interesting because I've never heard that before.  I majored in sport management and had to take a lot of classes that were for both my major and exercise science, so they of course put a lot of emphasis on the importance of staying active.  Even if exercising doesn't produce that big of a physical benefit, I think a part of staying healthy is reducing stress and staying active helps reduce stress, though I guess this could differ from person to person.

 

You can probably find a study that provides evidence for both sides of any issue.

 

And yeah it's not hard to avoid soda and pizza etc, but in my opinion the real challenge is to avoid eating foods that aren't processed and loaded with additives.  Stuff like bread, cereal, etc may not be as healthy and natural as it seems.

 

Don't get me wrong, exercise is obviously VERY important if you're training for some kind of athletic activity.  I'm talking more about weight loss for your average joe.  So if you're running five miles a day or pumping iron all the time, it will make a big difference.  Most people who are even inclined to exercise aren't going to go to those lengths.

 

Also, most of the stuff's that's labelled "natural" aren't really.