PaDevsFan Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I'm not disappointed by the ruling. I'm a little surprised. You have to give them more than an hour to do their work before you can decide on their motivation. You can't go from "WE SCREWED YOU!" to "CONSPIRACY!" in 3 seconds. the Devils made their bed in this case by signing this deal and having a dog and pony show, when the league had told them where this was going. they put themselves out on an island and put their faith in the PA. don't know that they had any other choice, but it wasn't a good one. the ranting, IMO, is a little juvenile. everyone knew what the process was going to entail. and if the shoe was on the other foot, and this was the Rangers, you'd all be dancing in the streets and saying "FINALLY, AN END TO THIS MADNESS!" Not true at all, the bottom line again is what leg do they have to stand on with all of the other questionable deals?? That is my problem and my disapointment. Come on DiPietro a what 20 yr deal?? or something like that an dno squawking by the NHL at that? that is where my disapointment lies it has nothing to do with the Devils, the Rangers the Flyers or whoevfer. If no other deals had ever been sighned that could possibly be brought into question then yeah this deal could be one for the NHL to use as a measuring stick. But to let many others go and stop this one? Thats the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokar Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 its funny i dont care about the contract being rejected, i am more wondering if the nhl is going to penalize the devils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-SS Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 The worst thing that can happen to us now is Bettman taking away some of our cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Not true at all, the bottom line again is what leg do they have to stand on with all of the other questionable deals?? That is my problem and my disapointment. Come on DiPietro a what 20 yr deal?? or something like that an dno squawking by the NHL at that? that is where my disapointment lies it has nothing to do with the Devils, the Rangers the Flyers or whoevfer. If no other deals had ever been sighned that could possibly be brought into question then yeah this deal could be one for the NHL to use as a measuring stick. But to let many others go and stop this one? Thats the problem. what's wrong with DP's deal? it's a flat contract. it's not circumventing anything. sh!t, if he decides to do a 2 week barnstorm every year, he's on the books for them forever you do understand to win these cases you need either something outrageous or precedent, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 The length wasn't a problem. The front loading pretty much was - no other team paid less than one million in the final years. read Bloch's statements - puddy posted the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokar Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 The worst thing that can happen to us now is Bettman taking away some of our cap space. which is a very bad thing that could happen to the devils, before the devils sign kovy or re-sign him, they have to find out if there is going to be some cap space taken away. if there is they may have to trade more the one player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMONPETEYD Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 (edited) Excerpts from Bloch's ruling, obtained by Sporting News: "In this case, the record strongly supports the claim this contract is 'intended to, or has the effect' of defeating or circumventing the Salary Cap provisions of the CBA. The overall structure of this SPC reflects not so much the hope that Mr. Kovalchuk will be playing in those advanced years, but rather the expectation that he will not. This is a long contract --17 years -- the longest in NHL history. That, in itself, poses no contractual problem, for the reasons discussed above. But Kovalchuk is 27 years old, and the agreement contemplates his playing until just short of his 44th birthday. That is not impossible, but it is, at the least, markedly rare. Currently, only one player in the League has played past 43 and, over the past 20 years only 6 of some 3400 players have played to 42. ..." More from the report regarding finances: "...The dynamics of this SPC, with particular reference to its final six years, are such that there is scarce reason for either Player or Club to continue the relationship. The incentives are strongly to the contrary. By year 11, the Player will have received $98,000,000 of his $102,000,000 contract, constituting some 97% of the bargain. One may reasonably ask, as the League does, whether a player who had been averaging some $9,000,000 a year will be satisfied to continue the rigors of an NHL season for a salary that (1) will average slightly more than $550,000 a year, (2) will represent a 95% reduction against previous average earnings and (3) will undoubtedly constitute compensation well below the then-applicable major league minimum. The economic incentives are not limited to issues of the Player's preferences, alone. During the final six years, the comprehensive "No Move" restriction will have been reduced to a "No Trade" clause. This additional flexibility will allow the Club to, for example, place the Player on waivers or send him to the minors. Here again, one may reasonably ask whether this Player would, at that point, accept such repositioning as an alternative to seeking continued employment outside the League or simply retiring." The conclusion "...the System Arbitrator here concludes the SPC terms themselves demonstrate this agreement 'has the effect of defeating' the provisions of the CBA, with particular reference to the Team Payroll Range language. For these reasons, the finding is that the League has sustained its burden of demonstrating its actions in rejecting the agreement were in accordance with the bargained authority under Section 11.6(a)(i). Accordingly, the grievance protesting that action will be denied." http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Grinder/entry/view/73856/source_arbitrator_rules_in_favor_of_nhl_in_kovalchuk_case Edited August 10, 2010 by CMONJohnnyMac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Why does everyone think Bettman hates the Devils? Because he hired Campbell who DOES hate the Devils? Fair enough. Why else - because he rejected this contract -- I dont mind that so much. Why else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaDevsFan Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 what's wrong with DP's deal? it's a flat contract. it's not circumventing anything. sh!t, if he decides to do a 2 week barnstorm every year, he's on the books for them forever you do understand to win these cases you need either something outrageous or precedent, right? Chris Pronger's deal 525,000 the last 2 yrs. The NHL actually investigated it. Hossa deal heavily front loaded the last 4 years he will earn less than a mil a year. These are two perennial all stars getting paid nothing over the last few years of their contracts, and this isnt circumventing the CBA???? Come on they might not be 17 years, but they are the same exact idea. Heavily fdront loaded deals with nothing at the end of them for less salary cap hit! That seems enough to me right there for the arbitrator to not have a choice but to let the deal stand!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Chris Pronger's deal 525,000 the last 2 yrs. The NHL actually investigated it. Hossa deal heavily front loaded the last 4 years he will earn less than a mil a year. These are two perennial all stars getting paid nothing over the last few years of their contracts, and this isnt circumventing the CBA???? Come on they might not be 17 years, but they are the same exact idea. Heavily fdront loaded deals with nothing at the end of them for less salary cap hit! That seems enough to me right there for the arbitrator to not have a choice but to let the deal stand!! THEY ARE OPEN INVESTIGATIONS. THEY ARE NOT CLOSED. BEFORE TODAY THE ONLY REAL WAY TO INVESTIGATE THESE WAS TO WAIT THEM OUT. THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE, BECAUSE THE DEVILS AND GROSSMAN GAVE THEM A BEAUTIFUL TEST CASE AND THE PA SUCKS. just so I don't have to continually repeat it because people only see what they want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 THEY ARE OPEN INVESTIGATIONS. THEY ARE NOT CLOSED. BEFORE TODAY THE ONLY REAL WAY TO INVESTIGATE THESE WAS TO WAIT THEM OUT. THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE, BECAUSE THE DEVILS AND GROSSMAN GAVE THEM A BEAUTIFUL TEST CASE AND THE PA SUCKS. just so I don't have to continually repeat it because people only see what they want to see. not at you PA just like the post isn't - it's just funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaDevsFan Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 THEY ARE OPEN INVESTIGATIONS. THEY ARE NOT CLOSED. BEFORE TODAY THE ONLY REAL WAY TO INVESTIGATE THESE WAS TO WAIT THEM OUT. THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE, BECAUSE THE DEVILS AND GROSSMAN GAVE THEM A BEAUTIFUL TEST CASE AND THE PA SUCKS. just so I don't have to continually repeat it because people only see what they want to see. Oh ok they are open I get it so after Hossa wins the Cup with Chicago they are going to turn around and reject the deal he signed last year?? ANd then they will take away CHicago's Cup becuase Hossa should never have been on the team right?? Same with Pronger open investigation so they are going to reverse it and now make him a free agent?? http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4369897 Funny they have been "investigating" for over a year now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Oh ok they are open I get it so after Hossa wins the Cup with Chicago they are going to turn around and reject the deal he signed last year?? ANd then they will take away CHicago's Cup becuase Hossa should never have been on the team right?? Same with Pronger open investigation so they are going to reverse it and now make him a free agent?? http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4369897 Funny they have been "investigating" for over a year now!!! because they've been waiting for something. now, if a year passes and nothing has been done, I'll agree with you. they're not taking the Cup away from anyone. that's why they're going to go soft on us. all that will happen, if anything happens, is that those contracts will be voided and the players declared FA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisg19 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Just got in,not really surprised by the ruling. I don't think there is actually anyone here who doesn't think this deal was indeed structured as a way around the cap issues. All I know is if this were the Rangers offering up this CBA defeating deal, everyone would be up in arms here. And yes I know there are other cases pending, but come on none of them including the Hossa deal were as blatantly obvious as this contract. Whatever, never liked the deal anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMazz Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 You know Bobby Ryan is a free agent. Nobody thinks he would be a good pickup for the Devils if Lou can't re-negotiate a contract? He seems to be the best FA Left Wing out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 because they've been waiting for something. now, if a year passes and nothing has been done, I'll agree with you. they're not taking the Cup away from anyone. that's why they're going to go soft on us. all that will happen, if anything happens, is that those contracts will be voided and the players declared FA's. They can indeed nullify any game where cap circumvention played a part in the outcome... so they'd have to say Hossa was a non-factor. They'll do nothing about those contracts - Chicago would be thrilled to have the cap hit gone anyhow - and they won't fine the Devils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice dog Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 trouble is...sometimes plan B is Andreas Salomonsson oh jesus... that thought's enough to put half the board on *suicide watch* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaDevsFan Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 because they've been waiting for something. now, if a year passes and nothing has been done, I'll agree with you. they're not taking the Cup away from anyone. that's why they're going to go soft on us. all that will happen, if anything happens, is that those contracts will be voided and the players declared FA's. So I have to wait a year for you to agree with me lol. In all seriousness Do you really beleive the NHL is going to void those contracts after they have already been part of their respective teams for a year????? Come on please dont be naive about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grcenter47 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 You know Bobby Ryan is a free agent. Nobody thinks he would be a good pickup for the Devils if Lou can't re-negotiate a contract? He seems to be the best FA Left Wing out there. plus he is a jersey guy too from cherry hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 So I have to wait a year for you to agree with me lol. In all seriousness Do you really beleive the NHL is going to void those contracts after they have already been part of their respective teams for a year????? Come on please dont be naive about that... with a labor agreement coming up? you better believe it's a possibility. that 6 out of 2000 at 42 is all they need. I don't blame them for not taking a risk on a somewhat bad deal when it was inevitable someone would fax them the holy grail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMazz Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 plus he is a jersey guy too from cherry hill Yeah I mean he's no Kovy but he was on the US Olympic team and puts up 30-35 goal seasons. He has pretty good numbers if you look at his stats. If Kovy becomes impossible i'd snag him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Rattlehead18 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 What if Lou made the contract crazy like that, knowing it would be rejected, but showing Kovalchuk that he was willing to give him that money. Maybe Kovalchuk would take less money with Lou's word that he would be rewarded some other way with money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 THEY ARE OPEN INVESTIGATIONS. THEY ARE NOT CLOSED. BEFORE TODAY THE ONLY REAL WAY TO INVESTIGATE THESE WAS TO WAIT THEM OUT. THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE, BECAUSE THE DEVILS AND GROSSMAN GAVE THEM A BEAUTIFUL TEST CASE AND THE PA SUCKS. just so I don't have to continually repeat it because people only see what they want to see. The ability to have a deal under continuous investigation is to ensure that there isn't some sort of side deal/under the table payment that wasn't disclosed originally, so it's almost like a fraud on the league. With Hossa and Pronger, there's nothing to "investigate". Everyone knew what those deals were designed to do, yet the league affirmatively approved them anyway. And beyond the PR nightmare of retroactively invalidating those deals, I think an arbitrator will in fact smack the league around next time, killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattyElias26 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Not only did we temporarily lose Kovy today but Shark Week is over! what the heck am I supposed to do now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USC09 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I think a new contract will be agreed upon by the end of the week simply because training camp is upon us and I think just like the Blackhawks did last summer with their players that the NHL warned them of their contracts, Lou will try o get this resolved quickly so he can conduct other team business. I don't see this being a huge drag. Yes there is no timetable for a deal, but I think it will work itself out. So our projected line up with and without Kovy is as follows: Without: Parise Zajac Langenbrunner Elias Arnott Zubrus Rolston Pelley Clarkson Tedenby Josefson Henrique Extras: LeBlond, Zharkov With: Parise Zajac Langenbrunner Kovalchuk Arnott Elias Zubrus Pelley Clarkson Tedenby Josefson Henrique Extras: LeBlond, Zharkov Defense: Greene Volchenkov Salvador Tallinder White Corrente/Urbom Extras: Fraser, Eckford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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