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"Transition, not a Rebuild" 15-16 Thread and Beyond


devilsrule33

15-16  

53 members have voted

  1. 1. Transition or Rebuild

    • Transition
      27
    • Rebuild (At the very least, accepting this team won't actively look to compete until 17-18)
      26
  2. 2. If Transition

    • With Lou
      15
    • Without Lou
      26
    • My head says without, but my heart won't let me
      12


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First, some comments from Lou Lamoriello from Fire and Ice:

 

 

 

http://fireandice.northjersey.com/fire-ice-1.174987/lamoriello-s-plan-it-s-a-transition-not-a-rebuild-says-team-has-cap-space-to-upgrade-forwards-1.1275387

 

I'm a little confused what Lou is saying. In the first quote box, he says that he doesn't think you can totally rebuild because of free agency and the draft? So, he thinks free agency is an element that gives every team a chance to get good players? In the second, it really seems that the Devils having cap space will be very important for the Devils in free agency. Like free agency, will be a huge help to fix the scoring issues?

 

Maybe I am reading into it poorly, but how after everything that's happened, does he think Free Agency is the answer. Really good players aren't making it to free agency, They aren't holding out hope to be signed by the New Jersey Devils come July 1st. The Devils will have a good amount of cap space opened up this off-season. What does it mean for them? Mike Fisher? Antoine Vermette? Justin Williams? Chris Stewart? Thomas Fleischmann? The answers are not there to save this franchise?

 

Here's the first question I have: If Lamoriello is still the GM, and I 100% expect him to be, what can he do to get this team in the playoffs next season. Although, he never says it, I'm assuming that would be his goal. I'm having a hard time seeing his way there.

 

You can always punt 2015-2016, hope to have another top draft pick, and chase after a hopefully better free agency class in 2016, but isn't the cap predicted to rise much higher. There are going to be other teams with cap space.

 

Either way, there are a lot of threads discussing a lot of different teams, why not have a thread dedicated to the direction of the franchise, possible scenarios, ways to improve the team, etc as the last two months play out.

First, some comments from Lou Lamoriello from Fire and Ice:

 

 

 

http://fireandice.northjersey.com/fire-ice-1.174987/lamoriello-s-plan-it-s-a-transition-not-a-rebuild-says-team-has-cap-space-to-upgrade-forwards-1.1275387

 

I'm a little confused what Lou is saying. In the first quote box, he says that he doesn't think you can totally rebuild because of free agency and the draft? So, he thinks free agency is an element that gives every team a chance to get good players? In the second, it really seems that the Devils having cap space will be very important for the Devils in free agency. Like free agency, will be a huge help to fix the scoring issues?

 

Maybe I am reading into it poorly, but how after everything that's happened, does he think Free Agency is the answer. Really good players aren't making it to free agency, They aren't holding out hope to be signed by the New Jersey Devils come July 1st. The Devils will have a good amount of cap space opened up this off-season. What does it mean for them? Mike Fisher? Antoine Vermette? Justin Williams? Chris Stewart? Thomas Fleischmann? The answers are not there to save this franchise?

 

Here's the first question I have: If Lamoriello is still the GM, and I 100% expect him to be, what can he do to get this team in the playoffs next season. Although, he never says it, I'm assuming that would be his goal. I'm having a hard time seeing his way there.

 

You can always punt 2015-2016, hope to have another top draft pick, and chase after a hopefully better free agency class in 2016, but isn't the cap predicted to rise much higher. There are going to be other teams with cap space.

 

Either way, there are a lot of threads discussing a lot of different teams, why not have a thread dedicated to the direction of the franchise, possible scenarios, ways to improve the team, etc as the last two months play out.

This is one of the best tread within this forum at this is, thank you.

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Lou needs to properly evaluate his own players in order to make the right decisions. If he still overrates players like Zajac and Henrique, that's an issue. Lately Lou has talked about Zubrus and Gionta, mentioning that they aren't top six forwards so the offense part of their game isn't important, and they have value in other places, but the thing is...if you don't have the pieces in the top six, you need players better than Zubrus and Gionta in your bottom six. It really needs to be a collective effort offensively, and if players like that can't contribute offensively in any way, they need to go.

 

You simply can't be close when you are missing arguably four or five top six forwards. If Lou thinks Henrique, Zajac, Elias and Cammalleri is formidable core, then I expect some bad free agent signings to compliment them. That would be a disaster. 

 

You can have a Gionta - one - provided he doesn't move up on the depth chart when there's injuries and you have good fill-ins in the minors.  The Devils have really had neither of these things be the case.

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Think of the Nashville Preds two years ago, had the D and the goaltending just needed the offense. I want that kind of transition.

 

only goes to show you need more than solid goaltending and defence to win. They only became relevant once they got some offense and got a more balanced team.

 

They even made their way through losing one of the top dman in the league by getting more offense. 

Edited by SterioDesign
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only goes to show you need more than solid goaltending and defence to win. They only became relevant once they got some offense and got a more balanced team.

They even made their way through losing one of the top dman in the league by getting more offense.

They replaced Suter with Jones, and hit a home run with Jossi. It's still a team whose success is built from the goalie out. If anything they resisted the urge to pass on Jones for someone like Monahan, Nishushkin or Lindholm in the hopes of bolstering a lagging group of forwards.

It also helps that they managed to snag arguably their best forward in a deal that was such a steal, that you might as well call it luck. But as I said, the Devils might be able to get someone like that, a promising forward prospect on a team that already has plenty of forward talent, but it would have to be someone like Elias.

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only goes to show you need more than solid goaltending and defence to win. They only became relevant once they got some offense and got a more balanced team.

 

They even made their way through losing one of the top dman in the league by getting more offense. 

 

You continue to know absolutely nothing about the Nashville predators other than they once had Shea Weber and Ryan Suter at the same time.  They were never a defensive juggernaut with them. Their defensive depth has never been greater than it is now, and part of their very good offense is coming from two defensemen in the top of 5 of D scoring.

 

You know who the Predators drafted in their first draft after losing Suter? A defenseman with their lowest pick since their inaugural draft in 1998.

Edited by devilsrule33
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You continue to know absolutely nothing about the Nashville predators other than they once had Shea Weber and Ryan Suter at the same time.  They were never a defensive juggernaut with them. Their defensive depth has never been greater now, and part of their very good offense is coming from two defensemen in the top of 5 of D scoring.

 

You know who the Predators drafted in their first draft after losing Suter? A defenseman with their lowest pick since their inaugural draft in 1998.

 

jesus christ what's your problem calm the fvck down jerk, you're calling me on me every single occasion you have no matter what im saying. Did i go out of my way and bash someone or show disrespect to someone with my post?!? All i said is that they are more balanced now. Stop being a damn jerk.

 

Are they better balanced now that they were awhile ago with NOTHING up front? yes or no? Yes they are and they are doing better than once all their major assets were on the D or in net. Thats all i was saying.

Edited by SterioDesign
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They replaced Suter with Jones, and hit a home run with Jossi. It's still a team whose success is built from the goalie out. If anything they resisted the urge to pass on Jones for someone like Monahan, Nishushkin or Lindholm in the hopes of bolstering a lagging group of forwards.

It also helps that they managed to snag arguably their best forward in a deal that was such a steal, that you might as well call it luck. But as I said, the Devils might be able to get someone like that, a promising forward prospect on a team that already has plenty of forward talent, but it would have to be someone like Elias.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

absolutely, and how you get at some point is different for every team but all im saying is that they wouldnt have the success they have without being more balanced then they once were. 

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jesus christ what's your problem calm the fvck down jerk, you're calling me on me every single occasion you have no matter what im saying. Did i go out of my way and bash someone or show disrespect to someone with my post?!? All i said is that they are more balanced now. Stop being a damn jerk.

 

Are they better balanced now that they were awhile ago with NOTHING up front? yes or no? Yes they are and they are doing better than once all their major assets were on the D or in net. Thats all i was saying.

 

They weren't a very good defensive team when they had Suter and Weber.  That's the point he is trying to make.  They're better now defensively than when they had Suter.  Part of that is the forwards being better, but part of that is also the defense - they're not using Kevin Klein as a 2nd pairing D man anymore.  They have more depth there.  

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They weren't a very good defensive team when they had Suter and Weber.  That's the point he is trying to make.  They're better now defensively than when they had Suter.  Part of that is the forwards being better, but part of that is also the defense - they're not using Kevin Klein as a 2nd pairing D man anymore.  They have more depth there.  

 

So would you say they are better balanced now? Thats my point. 

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I know the playoffs are the ultimate goal when it comes to any season, but lets be honest here. This team, as is, would be lucky to win a playoff game, let alone a series. Would it really be worth sneaking in and being eliminated in 5 games then getting an impact, franchise changing player in this years draft?

I just don't see the logic in NOT wanting lose games. Especally this draft year. Any other year and I would be on board with this supposed "playoff push" but all of you need to understand. Teams above us need to start losing games, we need to start winning games and as a team, the Devils need to do something that hasn't been done in TWO DECADES and that is come back from a double digit deficit in the standings.

I hope everyone can see the math here. It's not on our side. What the Devils are going to do is get everyone excited about a push, miss the playoffs by 4-6 points and play themselves out of a good pick in this draft. We are soon going to play ourselves to the point where Barzal won't be possible, let alone Strome or Marner. This needs to stop.

I've been a fan of this team since birth but the Devils, for the sake of the franchise need to start losing and fans need to get over this pipedream of the team making the playoffs. The math isn't there.
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I know the playoffs are the ultimate goal when it comes to any season, but lets be honest here. This team, as is, would be lucky to win a playoff game, let alone a series. Would it really be worth sneaking in and being eliminated in 5 games then getting an impact, franchise changing player in this years draft?

I just don't see the logic in NOT wanting lose games. Especally this draft year. Any other year and I would be on board with this supposed "playoff push" but all of you need to understand. Teams above us need to start losing games, we need to start winning games and as a team, the Devils need to do something that hasn't been done in TWO DECADES and that is come back from a double digit deficit in the standings.

I hope everyone can see the math here. It's not on our side. What the Devils are going to do is get everyone excited about a push, miss the playoffs by 4-6 points and play themselves out of a good pick in this draft. We are soon going to play ourselves to the point where Barzal won't be possible, let alone Strome or Marner. This needs to stop.

I've been a fan of this team since birth but the Devils, for the sake of the franchise need to start losing and fans need to get over this pipedream of the team making the playoffs. The math isn't there.

 

 

haha im with you there but c'mon. Don't underestimate Lou's stubbornness. Lou is NOT willing to take a step back to move forward. His actions, decisions and quotes are all showing that mentality.

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I know the playoffs are the ultimate goal when it comes to any season, but lets be honest here. This team, as is, would be lucky to win a playoff game, let alone a series. Would it really be worth sneaking in and being eliminated in 5 games then getting an impact, franchise changing player in this years draft?

I just don't see the logic in NOT wanting lose games. Especally this draft year. Any other year and I would be on board with this supposed "playoff push" but all of you need to understand. Teams above us need to start losing games, we need to start winning games and as a team, the Devils need to do something that hasn't been done in TWO DECADES and that is come back from a double digit deficit in the standings.

I hope everyone can see the math here. It's not on our side. What the Devils are going to do is get everyone excited about a push, miss the playoffs by 4-6 points and play themselves out of a good pick in this draft. We are soon going to play ourselves to the point where Barzal won't be possible, let alone Strome or Marner. This needs to stop.

I've been a fan of this team since birth but the Devils, for the sake of the franchise need to start losing and fans need to get over this pipedream of the team making the playoffs. The math isn't there.

This is pretty much how I feel too. And I think we kind of figured this would happen.
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This is pretty much how I feel too. And I think we kind of figured this would happen.

 

I've been feeling that way for 3 years already and i'm really worried that the right steps won't be taken this year. Fair to say that those 2 years have brought us absolutely nothing for the future outside of Schneider. 

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I agree. Its just a shame that we dont have anything really valuable to trade. Zid is our best tradeable asset IMO.

 

Well that's a vicious circle... if you always patch holes with old vets on 3-4 years contracts... you're gonna run them to the ground and they won't be tradeable by the end. That's why i was fine with signing Brunner or younger players cause "usually" you can always try to trade them cause they technicnally have more left in the tank. Was not the case with Brunner saddly.

 

I'm not saying i'd trade Cammalleri but i'd seriously look at the interest and debate for a bit. Sure he's our best scorer. But unless we think we can become relevant again in the next few years (before he's going downhill) it could be a good move if we could flip him for an early 20s or first round pick. Cause really Cam is playing well for us but its kind of wasted since we're not gonna be contending for awhile and he'll likely be on the way down once we'd need him really.

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I've been feeling that way for 3 years already and i'm really worried that the right steps won't be taken this year. Fair to say that those 2 years have brought us absolutely nothing for the future outside of Schneider. 

 

The Cory trade leaves me feeling mixed. On the one hand, Cory is playing surreal. On the other hand? We could of REALLY used Horvat who is playing insane for the Canucks right now. He's going to develop into a number one center. I suppose it's an equal trade when you think about it but Horvat will be playing in the league longer then Schneider will, I imagine anyway. The only way I see us having a TRUE advantage (and it not being an "equal trade") is if we weren't gonna pick Horvat or Domi or Nichushkin.

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The Cory trade leaves me feeling mixed. On the one hand, Cory is playing surreal. On the other hand? We could of REALLY used Horvat who is playing insane for the Canucks right now. He's going to develop into a number one center. I suppose it's an equal trade when you think about it but Horvat will be playing in the league longer then Schneider will, I imagine anyway. The only way I see us having a TRUE advantage (and it not being an "equal trade") is if we weren't gonna pick Horvat or Domi or Nichushkin.

But then who is playing in goal?

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