Daniel Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) There is no such thing as a safe bet in net in the draft. And you wildly overestimate how much goalies are worth in trade. Please name 3 goalies who've been traded for position players that are A: young and B: generally deemed to be pretty good in the last 10 years. There's no such thing as a safe bet at any position with the 30th overall, or at least anyone that is going to be any better than an average NHLer. Better than nothing I suppose, but it's not a huge calamity if you miss out on a Brian Boyle type player at that stage. So far as goalies are concerned though, Demko is a safer bet than a typical goalie that gets picked in that range, or at least it appears that way, for the reasons I stated. You can't really say with a straight face that Matteau would get you a better return than Vasilevski right now. And history has shown us you can get a good return for a young goalie that, 4 years or less after being drafted, whether it's a player or another pick. Schneider easily could have. Varlomov was traded for a first and a second, the first round pick being the 11th overall/Filip Forsberg. Luongo, 3 years after being drafted brought back a young forward that scored 25 goals that year. I also think that Anaheim could trade Gibson and another good prospect, for a players like Kane, Eberle, and maybe RNH. And I guarantee you that Long Island would have traded Vanek plus a pretty good player for him. And even if I'm wrong, he would certainly yield a better return right now than half of the players that were picked in the first round of his draft year, including probably Larsson. Edited April 9, 2014 by Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 There's no such thing as a safe bet at any position with the 30th overall, or at least anyone that is going to be any better than an average NHLer. Better than nothing I suppose, but it's not a huge calamity if you miss out on a Brian Boyle type player at that stage. So far as goalies are concerned though, Demko is a safer bet than a typical goalie that gets picked in that range, or at least it appears that way, for the reasons I stated. You can't really say with a straight face that Matteau would get you a better return than Vasilevski right now. And history has shown us you can get a good return for a young goalie that, 4 years or less after being drafted, whether it's a player or another pick. Schneider easily could have. Varlomov was traded for a first and a second, the first round pick being the 11th overall/Filip Forsberg. Luongo, 3 years after being drafted brought back a young forward that scored 25 goals that year. I also think that Anaheim could trade Gibson and another good prospect, for a players like Kane, Eberle, and maybe RNH. And I guarantee you that Long Island would have traded Vanek plus a pretty good player for him. And even if I'm wrong, he would certainly yield a better return right now than half of the players that were picked in the first round of his draft year, including probably Larsson. You have mentioned one example, which by the way did not happen in the last 10 years, and was not goalie for player (Jokinen was also in the trade and not long removed from being a 3rd overall pick). The rest have been goalies for picks, and this is absolutely critical. You can't say that picks are of equal value to certain players - they may be theoretically, but a pick means something much, much different than a player. There is almost no chance that John Gibson would be the centerpiece for a top forward like Kane or Eberle. He's just not proven. By the time he is proven, he will be too close to UFA to be worth a boatload, or Anaheim will want to keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) You have mentioned one example, which by the way did not happen in the last 10 years, and was not goalie for player (Jokinen was also in the trade and not long removed from being a 3rd overall pick). The rest have been goalies for picks, and this is absolutely critical. You can't say that picks are of equal value to certain players - they may be theoretically, but a pick means something much, much different than a player. There is almost no chance that John Gibson would be the centerpiece for a top forward like Kane or Eberle. He's just not proven. By the time he is proven, he will be too close to UFA to be worth a boatload, or Anaheim will want to keep him. I bet that Gibson and Emerson Etem could land Kane, Eberle or RNH. You might have to give it another year though. Gibson on his own could probably get you any forward on the Islanders not named Tavares. EDIT: Really, in the end, all I'm saying is that Demko is an intriguing prospect at 30, and that he appears to be good enough that I wouldn't be upset about it notwithstanding other needs the team has. Edited April 9, 2014 by Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 One last question about Demko and I'll let it rest. Has there ever been a goalie that became draft eligible after his first year of NCAA where he was the number 1 goalie as a freshman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Draft more Swedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Draft more Swedes. Jakub Vrana is a Czech playing in the Swedish Elite League. Does that count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Jakub Vrana is a Czech playing in the Swedish Elite League. Does that count? Sounds like Petr Vrana so let's not go there again. I've seen a fair bit of Lucas Wallmark and Viktor Arvidsson this year. I wonder if they could be had with any of the mid/later picks. Not sure where undrafted (previously passed over) kids like that fall in the rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 With us picking at 30 in this draft, I can't see Lou taking anything other than the best player available on the Devils draft board at the time. We definitely need goal scorers more than anything, but it won't change Lou's philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEWHistory Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Draft more Swedes. And Russians.... preferably homesick ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 And Russians.... preferably homesick ones... Let's draft more Americans. They never want to go to their home state and play for that team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Let's draft more Americans. They never want to go to their home state and play for that team. Lets only draft people from Jersey. As they no doubt will be life long Devils fans......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 wouldnt mind landing this guy, might still be around at 30 and he plays in Moncton so i could watch him all season in the Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Sadly, we have no depth whatsoever on rt. wing besides Sislo. All lefties playing right side in Albany. We do have righty D men! but no one at fw. Not sure why this is but hopefully scouting fills these holes. instead of best player available/ best right side (shooting) fw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Sadly, we have no depth whatsoever on rt. wing besides Sislo. All lefties playing right side in Albany. We do have righty D men! but no one at fw. Not sure why this is but hopefully scouting fills these holes. instead of best player available/ best right side (shooting) fw! IMO, the draft should never be used to fill holes. BPA no matter what. It's more reliable to fill holes via free agency or trades than by using the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 A lot of fans, including myself, said they wouldn't be too upset giving up a pick that's not in the top 10. So, NJ finished 20th, which would've given us 11 overall. Before the above declaration, we didn't have the 30th pick, so I guess downgrading 20 picks isn't the end of the world (though you're more likely to get an impact player at 11). So here are NJ's picks: 1st round- 30 2nd round- 41 3rd round- 71 4th round- NO PICK (WPG for Ponikarovsky) 5th round- 131 6th round- 161 7th round- NO PICK (Arizona for Sullivan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 A lot of fans, including myself, said they wouldn't be too upset giving up a pick that's not in the top 10. So, NJ finished 20th, which would've given us 11 overall. Before the above declaration, we didn't have the 30th pick, so I guess downgrading 20 picks isn't the end of the world (though you're more likely to get an impact player at 11). So here are NJ's picks: 1st round- 30 2nd round- 41 3rd round- 71 4th round- NO PICK (WPG for Ponikarovsky) 5th round- 131 6th round- 161 7th round- NO PICK (Arizona for Sullivan) Best way to think about it is that we took the 29th in 2012 and 30th in 2014 for the 10th in 2014. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Latest ISS Top 30 McKenzie's Top 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessus Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'm really hoping the Devils can get Anton Karlsson, Jakub Vrana (not sure why he's fallen so far in the rankings), or Nikita Scherbak at 30. If Ho-Sang falls to 30, though, do you think he's a good risky pick to take? He seems extremely skilled, but some say his game isn't likely to translate well to the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Best way to think about it is that we took the 29th in 2012 and 30th in 2014 for the 10th in 2014. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I'd rather we have given up the 29th and taken the 11th... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Worth taking a risk on Nikolay Goldobin?? I imagine the Devils will have been aware of him as he played a season with Reid Boucher. There are questionmarks about his defense and intensity, but we managed to cope with Kovalchuk...until he bolted back to Russia....to not have to play defense..... Still if we get to him early enough maybe he can change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneax Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Lets only draft people from Jersey. As they no doubt will be life long Devils fans......... No one from jersey is running to play with us when their out of their rookie contracts. Edited April 16, 2014 by Sneax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewarkDevil5 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 No one from jersey is running to play with us when their out of their rookie contracts. I'm no expert, but I believe there was just a hint of sarcasm intended in that post you replied to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Also if anyone's interested, here's the mock I put together after the lottery a couple nights ago: NJ (comp.) - Conner Bleackley, C, Red Deer (WHL) There were also small blurbs to go with all the players but I didn't wanna make a big post about it, if enough people wanna see it i'll just edit my post and include them.Hoe sopmeinfo on the guy you think the Devs might grab?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 It's very possible Brendan Lemieux might slip through the cracks to the 30th round. Some rankings have him a bit lower. Everything I've read about his game, I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Also if anyone's interested, here's the mock I put together after the lottery a couple nights ago: FLA - Aaron Ekblad, D, Barrie (OHL) BUF - Sam Reinhart, C, Kootenay (WHL) EDM - Sam Bennett, C, Kingston (OHL) CGY - Leon Draisaitl, C/LW, Prince Albert (WHL) NYI - Michael Dal Colle, C, Oshawa (OHL) VAN - Haydyn Fleury, D, Red Deer (WHL) CAR - Nickolaj Ehlers, LW, Halifax (QMJHL) TOR - Nick Ritchie, RW, Peterborough (OHL) WPG - Kasperi Kapanen, RW, KalPa (FIN) ANA (via OTT) - Jake Virtanen, RW, Calgary (WHL) NSH - William Nylander, C/RW, Sodertalje (SWE) ARZ - Brendan Perlini, LW, Niagara (OHL) WSH - Julius Honka, D, Swift Current (WHL) DAL - Jared McCann, C, Sault Ste. Marie (OHL) DET - Adrian Kempe, C, Modo Jr. (SWE) CBJ - Ivan Barbashev, LW, Moncton (QMJHL) PHI - Alex Tuch, RW, USA U-18 (USHL) NYR - Roland McKoewn, D, Kingston (OHL) MIN - Sonny Milano, LW, USA U-18 (USHL) LA - Anthony DeAngelo, D, Sarnia (OHL) MTL - Dylan Larkin, C, USA U-18 (USHL) TB - Nikolay Goldobin, RW, Sarnia (OHL) CHI - Joshua Ho-Sang, C, Windsor (OHL) SJ - David Pastrnak, RW, Sodertalje (SWE) STL - Nick Schmaltz, C, Green Bay (USHL) PIT - Nikita Scherbak, RW, Saskatoon (WHL) COL - Brendan Lemieux, LW, Barrie (OHL) ANA - Kevin Fiala, LW, HV-71 (SWE) BOS - Jakub Vrana, RW, Linkoping (SWE) NJ (comp.) - Conner Bleackley, C, Red Deer (WHL) There were also small blurbs to go with all the players but I didn't wanna make a big post about it, if enough people wanna see it i'll just edit my post and include them. i have no objection to this guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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