Onddeck Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) This is my point. There is really no way to utilize him in relation to the risk of giving up the empty netter. I am telling you right now, this is a case that knowing the end result rallies the support. Simply put: 90 seconds of 5 on 3 with goalie>6 on 3 without. Maybe the poor execution of the PP is the driving force for Pete's decision to go with 6. poor execution?? All four of our goals that night were PP goals Edited October 28, 2013 by Onddeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer91 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 A bit of a stretch here. But as the Devils don't practice 6v3, neither does Boston vice versa. Perhaps just the fact mentally it was 6v3, they tried to adjust to something they never practiced for, throwing them off their game, even though it was much difference from 5v3 for the Devils. It may have been a mental aspect for Bruins. May be a stretch but just knowing you were out numbered 2to1 would make it tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeCups Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 I wanted the Devs to pull Marty, and expected it I was a little surprised at how early we did it, but I am glad we did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 You mean the PP that had already scored 2 goals in the game and had scored 4 in the last 3 games? I won't even address this as you are the KING of citing sample size. Now all of a sudden the Devils are PP masters. You are really entertaining me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) poor execution?? All four of our goals that night were PP goalsDid you see the goals? The Henrique gosl was the only legit goal. It's not like we they were rotating making killer seam passes, etc.And if you think the PP is great then I don't know what to tell you except that there is a whole lot of selective memory going on right now. Edited October 28, 2013 by hystyk28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I still want to know if hystyk28 thinks the Devils were more likely to score 5 on 3 than 6 on 3? If the answer is that it's more likely 6 on 3 then you pull the goalie. If the answer is 5 on 3 then we disagree on the scoring potential of the 2 situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeCups Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 :e-drama: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Did you see the goals? The Henrique gosl was the only legit goal. It's not like we they were rotating making killer seam passes, etc. And if you think the PP is great then I don't know what to tell you except that there is a whole lot of selective memory going on right now. What exactly are you arguing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I won't even address this as you are the KING of citing sample size. Now all of a sudden the Devils are PP masters. You are really entertaining me now. I am talking from DeBoer's perspective, not from mine Unlike some people, I don't think that I think like how other people think. The PP has looked better the last two games - last night, at least according to extraskater, they had 10 shots at 5 on 4 PPs in around 7.x minutes at the point at which DeBoer made this move, which is of course real good, especially against a PK unit that last year was best in the league in shots allowed. You haven't addressed 731's point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) I still want to know if hystyk28 thinks the Devils were more likely to score 5 on 3 than 6 on 3?I say they are probably close to the same with one without the risk. Again with this team's PP, I can see the rationale, but it just goes to show how ineffective they are up 2 men. I can barely watch when we have a 2 man advantage. Watch the Kings, Chitown, SJ...they would never need to pull the goalie with 90 second of 5 on 3. I love aggressive coaching. I really feel that if the team isn't struggling Pete doesn't make that call. I do feel he went all in and caught his card on the river. Let's hope he gets a little more creative when it comes to shootouts, as his personnel decisions there are poor. Edited October 28, 2013 by hystyk28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) I say they are probably close to the same with one without the risk. Again with this team's PP, I can see the rationale, but it just goes to show how ineffective they are up 2 men. I can barely watch when we have a 2 man advantage. Watch the Kings, Chitown, SJ...they would never need to pull the goalie with 90 second of 5 on 3. I love aggressive coaching. I really feel that if the team isn't struggling Pete doesn't make that call. I do feel he went all in and caught his card on the river. Let's hope he gets a little more creative when it comes to shootouts, as his personnel decisions there are poor. You're not making sense. They didn't pull the goalie with 9 minutes left. They pulled him when teams pull their goalie. NJ's PP was middle of the pack in shots for during 5 on 3 play last year - unfortunately this year the site that tracks 5 on 3 doesn't have all the data from this year, but right now at least according to the site they're 3rd in shots for during 5 on 3 play. Chicago's power play 5 on 4 was 4th worst in the league in shots for last year. L.A's 5 on 3 results were much worse than New Jersey's last year, both in terms of shots and goals. Most people think that their team should score on every 5 on 3 opportunity. It is not a guaranteed goal. Indeed, the Devils in 5 on 3 situations last year were not worse than average. It is just that they were way overperforming early and underperformed late. Edited October 28, 2013 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneax Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Don't argue with this idiot anymore. He was raging at people for being down and upset with the team earlier for being awful. We win, and he's trying to dog on the coaching staff for the victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Don't argue with this idiot anymore. He was raging at people for being down and upset with the team earlier for being awful. We win, and he's trying to dog on the coaching staff for the victory. Hey dipsh!t. Triumph and myself are having a conversation. Neither of us are declaring the season is over and that the team sucks like you did last night before the miraculous PP. I know, I know, you are a fan again, well until at least Tuesday. Go to the goal song thread where people like you thrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Most people think that their team should score on every 5 on 3 opportunity. I don't believe that at all. The quality of PP is what important. So what we scored 4 PPGs last night, the first one looked good and the last 2 was just bedlem so it's tough to judge. But I think it is crazy to think the PP is fine, especially if Gelinas stays down. On 5v3 when you are shooting from the top and have little east west passes through seams, it's not good. As I have pointed out in the past, as this team is constructed today, it needs to perform way better in 2 areas. (shootouts and pps.) The devils do a damn good job 5 on 5 and with the hopes of schneids providing a better save % this season tha last, they have a solid foundation. Poor execution of a 4-goal powerplay. You're a moron. Iron balls behind a keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) It is easy to say that when you know the outcome. If Boston would have fired the puck into an open net with almost 90 seconds of a 5 on 3 the tone in here would be way different. Dude, seriously...if you can't score on an extended 6-on-3 you deserve to lose anyway. Giving up a goal on a 6-on-3 is pretty freaking unlikely and about the last thing I'm worried about down a goal in the final minute. Edited October 28, 2013 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLinfante Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Personally, I liked the move. Considering the team's start, what did Pete have to lose? A bit of a stretch here. But as the Devils don't practice 6v3, neither does Boston vice versa. Perhaps just the fact mentally it was 6v3, they tried to adjust to something they never practiced for, throwing them off their game, even though it was much difference from 5v3 for the Devils. It may have been a mental aspect for Bruins. May be a stretch but just knowing you were out numbered 2to1 would make it tough. From a coaching standpoint though, I would argue that executing a 6-3 offensively is probably a little more awkward than trying to defend it, if we can all agree that neither team practices either situation theoretically. Once a team is down 2 (or in this case, more) players, they are basically playing zone defense instead of man with an emphasis on keeping yourself between the goal and the puck. You could put out 8 guys vs. 3 and the defense would largely treat the situation the same. With that being said, I doubt it was very much fun for the bruins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I don't believe that at all. The quality of PP is what important. So what we scored 4 PPGs last night, the first one looked good and the last 2 was just bedlem so it's tough to judge. But I think it is crazy to think the PP is fine, especially if Gelinas stays down. On 5v3 when you are shooting from the top and have little east west passes through seams, it's not good. As I have pointed out in the past, as this team is constructed today, it needs to perform way better in 2 areas. (shootouts and pps.) The devils do a damn good job 5 on 5 and with the hopes of schneids providing a better save % this season tha last, they have a solid foundation. Iron balls behind a keyboard. The shot rate has gone up significantly in the last few games. They were at 26 shots per 60 minutes at 5 on 4 3 games ago, now they are at 36. And it's not like they were up against weak PKs either - all 3 PKs they've faced finished in the top 10 of shots allowed last year. I'm not saying the PP is fixed, but they are getting much better zone entries and it's leading to much better results. Whether they can sustain that, I don't know, but I'm no longer concerned about NJ's PP being historically awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmann422 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Anyone who argues against pulling the goalie 6 on 3 needs to also argue against pulling the goalie to make it 6 on 5. If your argument is that the opponent can score on the empty net, well yeah that's always the case when you pull the goalie whether it's a one man or three man advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Just realised...I hope this game is covered/featured in the next episode of Behind the B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Anyone who argues against pulling the goalie 6 on 3 needs to also argue against pulling the goalie to make it 6 on 5. If your argument is that the opponent can score on the empty net, well yeah that's always the case when you pull the goalie whether it's a one man or three man advantage. Really, They aren't even remotely comparable and if you need an explanation why, then the conversation is already lost. Are you sure that I am not saying the risk of giving up an empty netter and killing the 90 second 5 on 3 is not worth the additional skater to make it 6 on 3. Because that is what I am saying. Don't expect a lot to agree or even understand the difference because people just think more is better. Again, if the team is .500 or better, I bet Pete doesn't make that move, which is what started the whole conversation for those interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I think every team, at any record, pulls their goalie because it's easily the correct move. It's hard enough to clear the puck when down 2 guys, being down 3 makes it nigh impossible. It's no slam dunk scoring when up 2 guys but you certainly increase your odds if you add a 3rd extra player. So I face extremely minimal risk of allowing a goal and increase my odds of scoring, really a no brainer. I didn't see anyone attached to the game act surprised the goalie was pulled, if the move had any controversy to it then it would have been made an issue, regardless of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 The shot rate has gone up significantly in the last few games. They were at 26 shots per 60 minutes at 5 on 4 3 games ago, now they are at 36. And it's not like they were up against weak PKs either - all 3 PKs they've faced finished in the top 10 of shots allowed last year. I'm not saying the PP is fixed, but they are getting much better zone entries and it's leading to much better results. Whether they can sustain that, I don't know, but I'm no longer concerned about NJ's PP being historically awful. Agreed. The PP is looking better, way better. The "bombs away" approach was much needed. As a PK unit, sometimes it is really nice when the passes the puck on the outside of the perimeter the whole time. Make it a much easier kill and saves legs for when there is an opportunity to go shorthanded. When you are trying to block shots and get to rebounds, both off the goalie and elsewhere it becomes tiring and is much harder to predict what is happening next. Of course if you skew one way or the other, (pass too much, shoot too much, drink too much) then the results aren't good either. That crucial blend is what makes a PP good. The Devils are now skirting into that area and with some increase in players confidence I think the PP can sustain a top 10 ranking, which is huge for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/fireice/comments/gelinas_making_a_difference_for_devils_happy_to_back_after_albany_day_trip_power_play_surging/ Zidlicky’s tying goal came on a rare 6-on-3. Trailing 3-2, the Devils went on a 5-on-3 with 1:49 remaining when Patrice Bergeron received a delay of game minor for clearing the puck over the glass with Torey Krug already in the box on a high sticking double minor. DeBoer decided to pull Broduer with 1:24 left to make it a 6-on-3, sending Bernier on as the extra attacker to screen goaltender Tuukka Rask. With Bernier in front, Zidlicky blasted a shot from the right point that beat Rask over the right shoulder. Like Brodeur, DeBoer didn’t remember a situation previously in which the pulled a goaltender to get a 6-on-3. “I don’t remember having done that in the past and we did talk about it on the bench and we had differing opinions,” he said. “I think (goalie coach) Chris Terreri wanted him out with over two minutes left (when the Devils were on a 5-on-4) and some other guys wanted to wait a little longer. I don’t think there’s a right answer there. If you score, it’s the right answer. If you get scored against, it’s a poor decision. “I think I felt that Rask was not going to let in something that he saw and we needed our best net-front guy in front of the net and that’s what went into the decision and that’s why we got Bernier out there.” DeBoer believes having the sixth attacker definitely made a difference on the tying goal. “On a regular 5-on-3, you’re probably not planting somebody where Bernier stood,” he said. “Bernier went out there with the sole purpose of standing on the edge of the crease and screening Rask, so that helped for sure.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessus Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Brodeur, DeBoer Try saying that 5 times fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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