Devs offer Niedermayer 6.8/m

[NJDevs4978]

For once Tri's wrong, the Devils DO tend to stink without Nieds in the lineup. They were like 6-8-3 or something when he and Arnott were holding out on a team that wound up getting like 110 points for the year, they were something like 5-5 or 4-6 when he had the ten-game suspension at the end of 2000 (granted they sucked before then and got Ftorek fired), they were like 1-3 during his FIRST holdout.

EDIT: Damn I remembered the record to a tee, just checked in the media guide and they were 6-8-3 and also did get over 110 (111) points that year. Don't remember at what point Arnott and Nieds actually came back though.

Edited August 3, 2005 by Hasan4978

[SueNJ97]

Um, and that would be a big NO, for, one of the only times ever that Lou ever gave an inch was when Scott held out and the Devils got off to a dreadful start, he gave him more than he was willing to, because he knew how badly they needed him. They have an awful record when he does not play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's possible in 98, but in 01 the Devils did fine without him. From what I can figure out from looking at Yahoo, the Devils were at least over .500, and that was without him and Arnott.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really, the team was OK but not great and it was obvious that something was missing. Lou signed the two holdouts while the team was on a roadtrip and the whole thing just started to click. There was a very obvious difference between what the team was while they were out and what it was when they returned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The original poster claimed that the Devils got off to a dreadful start without him. I was only providing an instance when that wasn't true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, gotcha. It wasn't dreadful. It wasn't up to NJD standards, though, which is why Lou actually budged off his original contract offers for the first time in recorded history in order to get the two of them signed. If they hadn't had the same agent it probably wouldn't have happened. But you are correct, they weren't 8-15 or anything. They just weren't what they should have been.

[Darwindog]

Hold outs are also a horse of a different color. It's not merely playing without someone. It's bad blood inthe locker room... caused by???? So it's not an accurate assessment of with or without.

Edited August 3, 2005 by Darwindog

[SueNJ97]

For once Tri's wrong, the Devils DO tend to stink without Nieds in the lineup.  They were like 6-8-3 or something when he and Arnott were holding out on a team that wound up getting like 110 points for the year, they were something like 5-5 or 4-6 when he had the ten-game suspension at the end of 2000 (granted they sucked before then and got Ftorek fired), they were like 1-3 during his FIRST holdout.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Has, they were about .500 without them. Not sure they were actually under it. After Lou brought them back, the team went on a winning streak.

[Darwindog]

For once Tri's wrong, the Devils DO tend to stink without Nieds in the lineup.

Edited August 3, 2005 by Darwindog

[L]

Were 98 and 01 holdouts or was Nieds not under contract? I can't recall.

Edited August 3, 2005 by L

[NJDevs4978]

Who's giving them credit? I'm just acknowledging Nieds is important to the team and that IS one of the few times Lou gave in on a contract (which annoyed me at the time but it does tell you his importance). The team went 42-14-9 the rest of the year after the 6-8-3 start.

And I don't think the fact that it's a holdout really matters, the team wasn't losing when Brendan Morrison or Guerin or whomever held out.

[SueNJ97]

[quote name='L

[Darwindog]

Who's giving them credit?

Edited August 3, 2005 by Darwindog

[L]

[quote name='L

[Don]

I wasn't aware that the Devils were a one man team. I have chosen to keep the Devils as my favorite team because I believed that Lou was the GM that embraced the team concept more than any other general manager (and because it would be too damn expensive to buy new jackets/polo shirts/sweaters/shower curtains).

I stand corrected.

[Triumph]

I wasn't aware that the Devils were a one man team. I have chosen to keep the Devils as my favorite team because I believed that Lou was the GM that embraced the team concept more than any other general manager (and because it would be too damn expensive to buy new jackets/polo shirts/sweaters/shower curtains).

I stand corrected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don, you're not looking at reality. It's nice to grab abstract concepts like 'the Devils are a team' and say 'well, they've had this philosophy for years, of course it'll work out.', but you're not examining the team that Lou has signed or qualified right now with any objectivity.

Niedermayer would be the 2nd guy Lou has lost who I think he really didn't expect to; Holik being the first. The Devils did just fine without Holik because they have John Madden. The Devils do have [insert player to be named later] to replace Niedermayer, though.

Now that most of the top names have signed, it is imperative that Lou signs Niedermayer. Look at this roster without him, even put one of the top remaining free agents on the squad - does that team look better than most? I say, no. Not at all. It looks decidedly average - worse than average up front, average in back, great in goal.

Edited August 3, 2005 by Triumph

[LizDevil30]

I don't think signing Nieds is going against the team first motto. But Lou has yet to sign any D man. I really would like to know his master plan. Absolutely no action in the market? Wonder if it has anything to do with the new owner.

[NJDevs4978]

Well historically the Devils do not toss around multi-year contracts to players from other organizations, it's a Lou rule not a Vanderbeek thing. Lou said as much when he re-signed Madden, something to the effect of 'we wouldn't be making this kind of committment if he was from another organization'. The Devils do have their forwards locked up so they don't need to do much there, and Stevens will probably re-sign if he returns it's a matter of whether Nieds or Raf re-sign (and barring a disaster one of them should, since Raf does seem to be sitting around waiting for Nieds to make a decision).

[LizDevil30]

That's loyalty, if Raf's waiting around to see what Nieds is going to do. Lou should reward him.

[LetsGoDevils]

Ahhhh....hockey talk, once again on the board. Just gives one that warm fuzzy feeling.

[Joe B]

You are missing the point. Don is talking about using the money to get more position players rather than 1 player. 3 above average guys add more depth than 1 supergreat guy. The logic doesn't work with goalies because you only need 1 good one and 1 sucky one.

So one good goalie and one sucky one is different from having top pair of D and a not as good pair of D as the third pair how?

the whole don't pay one player that much is for depth, so it's depth for the D and fowards, but not goalies?

As for the team concept, I agree, but it's not all are equal. Not every d-man plays exactly 20 mins, not every foward plays 15. Hell, we have backups that don't play every game. but they are on the team. Would you rather every player get 1.5 ,mil, basically waste 4.5 mil in the stands each night, or have capable backups and have that money on the ice.

Talking about team, if you listen to Lou at all he always stresss the college philosophy. You have your seniors/vetrans, your sophmores , and freshman(rookies). You need all three to keep teams competitive year after year after year. You don't pay your freshman the same as your vets. You reward the experience, you don't pay for the potential. In the new NHL, the drafting / rookies will be more valuable than ever because you fill up the backend of your roster with the cheaper rokies.

My point is that Nieds plays a ton of ice time, at the critical times. Don't know the stats, but i thought he was close to the NHL leader for OT goals when they played last.

It's not black and white, go for all average, and don't overspend on to many players, it's a fine line, IMO, (not so humble, I admit it) Marty and Nieds are worth it. Lou obviosly feels he is worth it or else he woudln't offer that contract(and as I've said many times, (wll not that many since I only post in spurts) if I see any rumors about thedevs in the media, I dont beliecve them cause it didn't come from the devils cause if it did that person would lose their job). This is where the GM's will shine. draft is gonna be more important, negotiations are gonna be more important. I think Lou has those deparmens under control.

Joe

[thefiestygoat]

Joe you are missing the point. I am not saying that having a sucky back up is a good thing. Far from it. What I am saying is that if you want to use Don's arguement, that it is better to get more above average players as opposed to the superstar. Also there is only one goalie on the ice at the same time on one team last time I checked so using Don's philosophy it is better to build 3 good D pairs rather than 1 good D pair.