Elias on Kovalchuk

[Jerrydevil]

Which player would you take right now Beetlebum?

A generational talent in his prime or a very good player who is aging and is on a contract well above his current worth?

Sutter's a racist eh? I guess someone must have forgotten to tell him the Iginla's not white so he take his "C" as well... he's gotten away with murder for 2 years now.

Sutter says the blacks are OK, it's those freakin Eastern Euros that are scum.

As far as the first part of your post, I'll take the aging player. I only have to look at him for three more years. I get the "generational talent" for 15 years ... for many of those years I get to see a talent degenerate.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Jerrydevil

[maxpower]

Ya i agree he is definitely struggling and looks horrendous out there, i just feel he should play his style, and thats my opinion and dont need any pompus remarks about it. I respect everyones opinion on here and explain how i feel, you should do the same, and THAT my friend is just my opinion

all the things I described *are* his style. he's a streaky scorer and he's in a slump now. but the rest of that stuff is a laundry list of complaints about his game that go back to Atlanta and for awhile.

and he's doing it here. last year there was some of it, but not as much. he actually exceeded expectations in playing decently smart and playing decently hard, after they stoped playing him 45 minutes a game and settled him in as the 2nd line LW. now, he's a virtually useless floater.

so, if they feel free about calling him out on it, considering these are people who don't throw people under a bus for a living (like Bobby does), it must mean something. it's not them, it's not the coach, like you posted on your status, it's him. the guy that played for Lemaire was a better player than the schlock Johnny Mac has gotten outside of the first 10 minutes, with exceptions here and there.

[Zubie#8]

all the things I described *are* his style. he's a streaky scorer and he's in a slump now. but the rest of that stuff is a laundry list of complaints about his game that go back to Atlanta and for awhile.

and he's doing it here. last year there was some of it, but not as much. he actually exceeded expectations in playing decently smart and playing decently hard, after they stoped playing him 45 minutes a game and settled him in as the 2nd line LW. now, he's a virtually useless floater.

so, if they feel free about calling him out on it, considering these are people who don't throw people under a bus for a living (like Bobby does), it must mean something. it's not them, it's not the coach, like you posted on your status, it's him. the guy that played for Lemaire was a better player than the schlock Johnny Mac has gotten outside of the first 10 minutes, with exceptions here and there.

Very good, a non pompus post, mission accomplished

And yes i want the kovalchuk that played for Lemaire, that was the reason for my status, he played smart and produced well.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Zubie#8

[ghdi]

Haven't read a lot of the replies, but I think this is a good thing. Coming from just about any other player on the Devils (bar Marty) Id be a bit iffy about it, but all that Patty says is right. Kovy tries his ass off and wants to be succesful and wants to earn the money hes being paid, but its a been a slow transition with a lot of the changes.

Kovy can and will adjust his game. He will and will be our all-time leading goal scorer by the time his career here is over.

[Jerrydevil]

Haven't read a lot of the replies, but I think this is a good thing. Coming from just about any other player on the Devils (bar Marty) Id be a bit iffy about it, but all that Patty says is right. Kovy tries his ass off and wants to be succesful and wants to earn the money hes being paid, but its a been a slow transition with a lot of the changes.

Kovy can and will adjust his game. He will and will be our all-time leading goal scorer by the time his career here is over.

Hmmm. An average of about 34 goals a year for 10 years? He should manage to do that.

[CarpathianForest]

Calling him out is a double-edged sword. It might motivate Kovy to get his head into the game but it also adds to what I can surmise is growing dischord in the locker room. I have the distinct feeling that some players weren'ttoo happy with the Kovalchuk signing; how it's been detrimental to the cap, changed the Devils philosophy and created a lot of unwanted headaches in the off season.

[MantaRay]

Calling him out is a double-edged sword. It might motivate Kovy to get his head into the game but it also adds to what I can surmise is growing dischord in the locker room. I have the distinct feeling that some players weren'ttoo happy with the Kovalchuk signing; how it's been detrimental to the cap, changed the Devils philosophy and created a lot of unwanted headaches in the off season.

I think your dead on. You can see it in the body language of most of the players who were sold on the team concept.

This signing was more Sather than Lamoriello.

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Which player would you take right now Beetlebum?

A generational talent in his prime or a very good player who is aging and is on a contract well above his current worth?

Sutter's a racist eh? I guess someone must have forgotten to tell him the Iginla's not white so he take his "C" as well... he's gotten away with murder for 2 years now.

i love how you think you are outing me.

but to get to your question game on the line 2 - 2 in the 3rd i 'd take elias. just like i would take claude lemieux over mario lemieux.

[DevilinLA]

i love how you think you are outing me.

but to get to your question game on the line 2 - 2 in the 3rd i 'd take elias. just like i would take claude lemieux over mario lemieux.

More proof of what too much weed does to the brain.

Absurd. Crosby is 5 times the gamechanger that Elias is handsdown and I hate the crybaby.

Elias needs significant help to make things happen (i.e. production w/Arnott/Gomez vs. Zubrus/Rolston) Crosby has yet to have a true prime winger and is still a major force by himself.

I like Elias, just not at the pricetag.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

i love how you think you are outing me.

but to get to your question game on the line 2 - 2 in the 3rd i 'd take elias. just like i would take claude lemieux over mario lemieux.

Claude Lemieux over, when healthy, quite possibly the most dominating player in hockey history.

[H.E. Pennypacker]

More proof of what too much weed does to the brain.

Absurd. Crosby is 5 times the gamechanger that Elias is handsdown and I hate the crybaby.

Elias needs significant help to make things happen (i.e. production w/Arnott/Gomez vs. Zubrus/Rolston) Crosby has yet to have a true prime winger and is still a major force by himself.

I like Elias, just not at the pricetag.

yeah man i smoked pot why do you have a problem with that; how does that concern you? are you one of those people that live in california and go to that gigantic fraud of a church known as the crystal cathedral

again you changed the scope of the argument. i mentioned game winning goals and you go on about the complete package. clearly crosby is the better player ,but that doesn't change the fact there are certain things called intangibles, and that some players handle pressure better.

Edited November 9, 2010 by H.E. Pennypacker

[Devils731]

Ya, Crosby doesn't have anything to suggest he wins Cups, Gold Medals, or scores big goals. Edited November 9, 2010 by Devils731

[CarpathianForest]

Crosby sucks! But he does have Bettman, the NHL and media behind him so he rules!!!!!!! At least that's what the experts say.

[CRASHER]

Ya, Crosby doesn't have anything to suggest he wins Cups, Gold Medals, or scores big goals.

They never happened, they were just commercials made by Nike to get us to buy his crap

[DevsMan84]

The thing with Kovy and me is that I find it amusing that we consider him a huge gamble. We knew what we were getting: a guy who can score 40-50 goals every year and put up 80-100 points a season while having a large body and never using it to his advantage and being terrible on the defensive side of the puck. For some reason, and I think this has been mentioned before, we are trying to get him to play within the Devils system, and it is clearly not working. To compare him to Ovechkin or Crosby is silly, as they are a step above him and are elite superstars. We knew what we were getting and it is silly to think he will just change overnight, or even at all.

I do like Kovalchuk, but he is to me another player on our team. He is the sniper, and this is all. He is not a checker, grinder, or playmaker so we should stop thinking he can be any or all of these. That play he did on the SHG in the Ranger game shows he clearly cannot handle the defensive side of the game. He will always be a liability in that case, but he can also put up large numbers for us. It is still early into his contract, so I say just sit and wait and see.

As for Elias, this pains me to say this since he is one of my favorite all-time devils, but he is clearly over the hill. That 08-09 season was probably the last great season we will see from him. The injuries and age mixed with the fact he needs a creative winger or playmaking center with him only adds to the fustration. The biggest thing of all is his price tag and his no-movement clause, which makes him nearly impossible to trade him. Yeah someone said that we should be loyal to our players, but should we be loyal to the fact where it is hurting the rest of the team? Like any business, it is all about results.

Plus, if you want to rag on players, clearly more players deserve it this year. Clarkson, Langs, and White have not lived up to expectations and each time on the ice, I at this point pray a goal doesn't go against us.

[CarpathianForest]

DevsMan, I agree with you on Clarkson and Langs(although Langs has shown signs of life lately) but I feel comfortable saying that if White were playing last Friday we wouldn't have given up 3 goals.

[DevsMan84]

DevsMan, I agree with you on Clarkson and Langs(although Langs has shown signs of life lately) but I feel comfortable saying that if White were playing last Friday we wouldn't have given up 3 goals.

Eh I disagree. I would say it was more of a vet missing than White in particular missing. Yeah we got Volchenkov back, but it was his first game back. Still say we should have signed Motts.

[DevilinLA]

yeah man i smoked pot why do you have a problem with that; how does that concern you? are you one of those people that live in california and go to that gigantic fraud of a church known as the crystal cathedral

again you changed the scope of the argument. i mentioned game winning goals and you go on about the complete package. clearly crosby is the better player ,but that doesn't change the fact there are certain things called intangibles, and that some players handle pressure better.

I have never stepped foot in the Crystal Cathedral.

I'm not the one that keeps changing the argument....

I'm not willing to pay $6M for "intangibles". I hate this Elias bias.

When another player is brought up for lack of production his salary is brought into question vs. his production.

With Patrick Elias every excuse in the book comes out:

1.) Slow Start

2.) Doesn't have a playmaking Center

3) Not enough talent to work with him

4.) Leadership

5.) "Intangibles"

6.) Nostalgia Train

7.) Hurt or injured

For $6M the guy has to produce, not give a peppy speech in the locker room, tap another player on the but, or handle the media buzz, or boost morale, or be a lucky charm, or increase positive mojo flow - or whatever.

Production. Period. In 2010-2011. Now.

The math of the cap clearly dictates that someone making that much of the cap NEEDS to consistently produce - otherwise this team becomes nothing more than some museum/homage of past glory.

$6M for Intangibles is the same logic that got Clarkson overpaid - By that same logic perhaps someone will want to buy my IPHONE at double the market value because I claim it has "intangibles".

Its an emotional attachment fair and simple with little thought to the future. 30 of 30 team GM's take Crosby and never look back, or trade even for any player not named AO, Backstrom, or maybe Doughty.

[DevsMan84]

I have never stepped foot in the Crystal Cathedral.

I'm not the one that keeps changing the argument....

I'm not willing to pay $6M for "intangibles". I hate this Elias bias.

When another player is brought up for lack of production his salary is brought into question vs. his production.

With Patrick Elias every excuse in the book comes out:

1.) Slow Start

2.) Doesn't have a playmaking Center

3) Not enough talent to work with him

4.) Leadership

5.) "Intangibles"

6.) Nostalgia Train

7.) Hurt or injured

For $6M the guy has to produce, not give a peppy speech in the locker room, tap another player on the but, or handle the media buzz, or boost morale, or be a lucky charm, or increase positive mojo flow - or whatever.

Production. Period. In 2010-2011. Now.

The math of the cap clearly dictates that someone making that much of the cap NEEDS to consistently produce - otherwise this team becomes nothing more than some museum/homage of past glory.

$6M for Intangibles is the same logic that got Clarkson overpaid - By that same logic perhaps someone will want to buy my IPHONE at double the market value because I claim it has "intangibles".

Its an emotional attachment fair and simple with little thought to the future. 30 of 30 team GM's take Crosby and never look back, or trade even for any player not named AO, Backstrom, or maybe Doughty.

Could not agree more, especially with the nostalgia department. Also, where is this that he is a leader? When? I know he had the C for a while, but that was taken away and has since had the A. What leadership qualities has he brought other than played more games than anyone else currently for the Devils except Brodeur? Plus after meeting him in person more than once, he doesn't seem the type to give speeches in the locker room. Again, he is one of my fav all-time devils, but there comes a time to let go and move on.

[DevilinLA]

Could not agree more, especially with the nostalgia department. Also, where is this that he is a leader? When? I know he had the C for a while, but that was taken away and has since had the A. What leadership qualities has he brought other than played more games than anyone else currently for the Devils except Brodeur? Plus after meeting him in person more than once, he doesn't seem the type to give speeches in the locker room. Again, he is one of my fav all-time devils, but there comes a time to let go and move on.

Apparently when you wear the "A" you bear none of the responsibilities for crushing losses like NYR 07-8, or CAR 08-09, PHI 09-10 (all the Captain's fault)

.......yet.........

......... You are still viewed as being a strong leader and voice on the team with "intangible leadership qualities".

What a convenient paradox.

Jaime is the goat, Elias is the silent hero.

I like him too, but, its the sainthood he is granted by some of the fanbase that irritates me relative to his responsibility for production that his $6M salary dictates relative to the cap.

Edited November 9, 2010 by DevilinLA

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

Lets see how good Kovalchuk is in year 2. I actually think by the start of the third season he will at least be average defensively to go with his elite offense.

[CarpathianForest]

Lets see how good Kovalchuk is in year 2. I actually think by the start of the third season he will at least be average defensively to go with his elite offense.

Gotta agree. Snipers are like pitchers in baseball. They may have their pitching game down but just because they play baseball doesn't mean they can hit.

Kovy has been developed as an offensive player. Guys like Ovechkin and Crosby, who can play d and put up numbers, are few and far between. You're asking Kovy to come in and automatically start becoming a defensive stalwart when he's probably been groomed as an offensive stalwart only since he was a teenager.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Lets see how good Kovalchuk is in year 2. I actually think by the start of the third season he will at least be average defensively to go with his elite offense.

Elite offense...what elite offense? We haven't seen it since he got here.

He wasn't signed to this kind of coin to see what he could do next year and beyond. He was paid to produce RIGHT NOW. Everything that's happened to this point hasn't been all his fault, but he's as culpable as anyone, and he hasn't done a thing to help.

[CarpathianForest]

Perhaps Johnny Mac should stop juggling lines so much. I'm sure that would help. Keep Langs Zajac Kovy together, then perhaps noodle a bit with the other three lines until you find a match.

[Jerrydevil]

Jaime is the goat, Elias is the silent hero.

¿Quien es Jaime, señor?