Revitalization Around The Rock

[newarkdev01]

So I was chatting with some people in the know and there are more restaurants being worked on for around the arena than I had originally thought. The first building on Edison as well as the former parking garage (I posted pics here or on Wired of the demolished lot) will actually hold two separate restaurants (one is looking to be an "ale hosue" and the other a wine bar/club. The buildings are all gutted down and the owner is already doing preliminary work on the 3rd building which goes all the way through to Market st. This is coupled with the work to place a restaurant in the parking garage next to brick city coffee co and another restaurant on the Edison st side of the Rock. I think that everyone is still about a year off from opening doors but its nice to see a new places opening every year.

[devlman]

This is great, but like ive said before itd be even better if we saw a more diverse set of businesses opening up instead of just bar/restuarant/bar/restaurant

[newarkdev01]

This is great, but like ive said before itd be even better if we saw a more diverse set of businesses opening up instead of just bar/restuarant/bar/restaurant

Which would be nice, but retail is very very week right now, I don't think you can underscore how much developers loved banks who would pay top dollar to be in a building. Now build outs and developments have to find another way to get the price pr sq ft to make the numbers work. I think right now you just need to see the existing stock renovated and from that place if we get hotels that will get enough retail power to support a more diverse offering retail offering.

[DevsMan84]

This is great, but like ive said before itd be even better if we saw a more diverse set of businesses opening up instead of just bar/restuarant/bar/restaurant

What would you like there instead? A Chuck-E-Cheeze or another Modell's? I have no problem with bars:)

[devlman]

What would you like there instead? A Chuck-E-Cheeze or another Modell's? I have no problem with bars:)

Retail

Which would be nice, but retail is very very week right now, I don't think you can underscore how much developers loved banks who would pay top dollar to be in a building. Now build outs and developments have to find another way to get the price pr sq ft to make the numbers work. I think right now you just need to see the existing stock renovated and from that place if we get hotels that will get enough retail power to support a more diverse offering retail offering.

True

[DevsMan84]

Retail

What do you need to buy next to the Rock that you cannot get anywhere else and not have to drag it from Newark? The Devils Den is fine as it is just all Devils stuff, but do you really need a Best Buy there so you can buy a 42" TV before or after the game?

[devlman]

What do you need to buy next to the Rock that you cannot get anywhere else and not have to drag it from Newark? The Devils Den is fine as it is just all Devils stuff, but do you really need a Best Buy there so you can buy a 42" TV before or after the game?

Is this a serious question?

[Colin226]

Is this a serious question?

He makes a good point.. What type of retail are you talking about? There is already a heavy amount of retail in the area.. There's just no reason to go into Newark to shop (or see a game) and then stay and spend more money.. Adding restaurants keeps people there spending $ instead of coming to Newark to buy something and then leaving right away

[DevsMan84]

He makes a good point.. What type of retail are you talking about? There is already a heavy amount of retail in the area.. There's just no reason to go into Newark to shop (or see a game) and then stay and spend more money.. Adding restaurants keeps people there spending $ instead of coming to Newark to buy something and then leaving right away

Plus if you want retail, there are plenty a block away. There is Conway, I think a few dollar stores, and other fine retail establishments right around the corner at Market and Broad St. Do people really need a Best Buy, Modells, a Target, and other retail crap near the arena? Id rather have bars and restaurants and I do not have to drag stuff from Newark back home.

[devlman]

Well, I'm certainly not talking about MY personal needs going to and from a game. For instance, i'm not not wondering where i can pick up a 42" tv after a Devils game lol. DevsMan84, I am not generally talking about retail catered towards Devils fans. What I am talking about is the overall economic development of the area, i.e., creating pedestrian foot traffic, increasing the commercial tax base, and making the area a destination aside from the PruCenter. Even the places you deride like Target or Best Buy would be great if they opened up downtown. They could also lead to residential development.

So, while bars/restaurants are great, itd be nice to see more clothing/shopping centers, etc... Colin, there isnt a great deal of retail in the area and the existing retail there is low-caliber. I am talking about retail that can attract people to Newark with/without the Rock.

Edited September 22, 2010 by devlman

[Colin226]

Colin, there isnt a great deal of retail in the area and the existing retail there is low-caliber. I am talking about retail that can attract people to Newark with/without the Rock.

I think there is a decent amount of retail in the downtown and certainly a TON of foot traffic there every day.. I think the issue is that currently the stores open there are catered to the people of Newark, so yes they aren't exactly what you'd find in Montclair, but will having nicer stores bring people to Newark? I think it will take more than that.. Opening a store take a huge investment and I think right now people who have the $ to put nicer stores there don't want to be the first ones in Newark.. If it makes a comeback they will all be clamoring to get a store on Market or Broad, but whoever goes in there first will have many bad years to start.. No one wants to be first in this situation because if it fails they will be out a ton of money.. It's like a catch-22, Newark needs to be better to get better.. So how does it get better initially? Well having businesses (the Devils) pay taxes would be a good start

Edited September 22, 2010 by Colin226

[Marv4Life]

There is Conway, I think a few dollar stores, and other fine retail establishments right around the corner at Market

That's the type of retail that needs to be outsourced away from downtown. It's 2010, and there's no reason with a new arena not to have at least 1 or 2 higher end retail chains nearby. I proposed a couple years back to tear down the entire sw side of Broad/Market and replace it with a Super K-Mart. Relocate your Dr. Jays, etc. to the west side.

Same thing can be said for Market St. from Mulberry to Broad. Many buildings need to be 86ed and started over when the 2 new hotels start up. Can't a brother at least get a CVS or a UPS Store?

Edited September 22, 2010 by Marv4Life

[Colin226]

Plus if you want retail, there are plenty a block away. There is Conway, I think a few dollar stores, and other fine retail establishments right around the corner at Market and Broad St. Do people really need a Best Buy, Modells, a Target, and other retail crap near the arena? Id rather have bars and restaurants and I do not have to drag stuff from Newark back home.

The nice thing I can say about these stores is they are owned and operated by the people of Newark.. The city will never get better if the people don't feel the increased income from having nicer stores.. That way the money coming in gets reinvested into the city and it's residents..

[DevsMan84]

That's the type of retail that needs to be outsourced away from downtown. It's 2010, and there's no reason with a new arena not to have at least 1 or 2 higher end retail chains nearby. I proposed a couple years back to tear down the entire sw side of Broad/Market and replace it with a Super K-Mart. Relocate your Dr. Jays, etc. to the west side.

Same thing can be said for Market St. from Mulberry to Broad. Many buildings need to be 86ed and started over when the 2 new hotels start up. Can't a brother at least get a CVS or a UPS Store?

There is a UPS in Gateway I believe if I remember right.

But the stores in the downtown cater to the income levels of the surroundings. This is why you see a Conway in Newark, but not in the suburbs and that is why you find Best Buys in the suburbs, but not in Newark. Why open a store that caters to higher income people and families when you are in a lower-income neighborhood such as Newark?

I know some of you might think of using Times Square as an example of how retail can enhance an area out of the gutter, but the fact is that Times Square only had the problem of crime for the most part, but they had plenty of people who could afford the Disney Store, Virgin Megastore, Planet Hollywood types of places when they moved in. Newark simply doesnt have enough people who make enough income to patron these places.

[NewarkDevil5]

There is a UPS in Gateway I believe if I remember right.

But the stores in the downtown cater to the income levels of the surroundings. This is why you see a Conway in Newark, but not in the suburbs and that is why you find Best Buys in the suburbs, but not in Newark. Why open a store that caters to higher income people and families when you are in a lower-income neighborhood such as Newark?

I know some of you might think of using Times Square as an example of how retail can enhance an area out of the gutter, but the fact is that Times Square only had the problem of crime for the most part, but they had plenty of people who could afford the Disney Store, Virgin Megastore, Planet Hollywood types of places when they moved in. Newark simply doesnt have enough people who make enough income to patron these places.

In order for these places to open up you need more of two things: Occupied Class A Office Space and Middle/Upper Class Residential. The more people work in offices downtown, the more demand there will be for better shops than they have. This will also help the restaurants. The better these shops and restaurants become to cater for the office workers, the more people will choose the option of living close to where they work in downtown Newark.

The Arena has done wonders for Newark's image and the hotels it is bringing will definitely be a boon to companies looking for office space, but these things take time. These two new hotels will literally double the number of decent hotels in downtown Newark. That is huge. The new restaurants are a plus as well. The condos and market-rate apartments are a huge step. All of these together are very important because the goal is to simultaneously increase the number of office jobs in Newark as well as middle/upper class residents.

One of the biggest issues facing Newark is its school system. That is such a killer to a middle class family looking for a place to live. No one wants to send their kid to a Newark public school. Until that issue gets sorted out, at least to some kind of degree, its going to weigh on Newark's ability to attract decent residents as well as to keep residents who have risen to any decent level of income. Ironically enough, for upper class citizens the lousy public school system isn't as big of a deal, because at higher income levels private schooling becomes an option. However, there are other quality of living issues that stand in the way of wealthier residents moving in.

[Marv4Life]

Then enhance residential, market-rate projects downtown. Those stores you mention can follow suit. In the meantime, get at least 1 of them here. While it doesn't make the area perfect, it at least makes it viable. If the locals wanna get their thugging and bugging mack on, move them to their own hoods. These type of stores just add to the ghetto element and increase the chances of crime which doesn't need to happen. And BTW, the city isn't a neighborhood, it's 280,000+ and not all of it is lower-income. What about the Ironbound, University Heights or parts of North Newark? Or the white-collar folks working downtown?

It's 2010. Time to start acting like it.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Marv4Life

[devlman]

Why open a store that caters to higher income people and families when you are in a lower-income neighborhood such as Newark?

To attract outsiders who can pump money into the city's coffers. You also increase the potential and visibility of Newark to outsiders, which can lead to investments in downtown.

Colin, I agree with your last post. But, my point is that it'd be nice if Newark were at the stage (which they should be with a $300 million+ arena) to attract nicer stores and residents downtown. So much investment has been made to the business district to the point where just bars/restaurants just cant be enough.

Edited September 22, 2010 by devlman

[NewarkDevil5]

The white collar folks working downtown are the ones you're trying to get more of. The more of those people you can get to walk the streets regularly, the more valuable those sidewalks become. The middle class areas you mentioned are very much under-serviced. That is absolutely true. However, when someone is looking into the viability of a shop and they see that of the 30,000 pairs of feet that walk down the street in a given day, 25,000 of them are more likely to buy thug-wear or whatever it is, that's what they're going to feel most confident in selling.

When it comes to the Ironbound, the area that will be improved first because of that neighborhood's viability is going to be Ferry Street, not Broad Street. University Heights is going to give rise to the north Halsey Village area, Westinghouse area, the NJIT Gateway area. Those areas are going to have to stand on their own two feet without the SoMa (south of Market Street) area that the Arena is trying to build up. North Newark is so isolated from downtown that many people there do their shopping in Belleville and Bloomfield. Those people would only view downtown as a viable shopping district if it had already gotten to where we're saying it needs to go.

To attract outsiders who can pump money into the city's coffers.

As much as I've always been an idealist, people open businesses to make money, not pay taxes. People will open businesses and sell products that they think will sell and make them a profit. They'll look for the best profit they can make. If that means selling thugwear on Broad Street or manure at an Agway thats what they'll sell.

[devlman]

And BTW, the city isn't a neighborhood, it's 280,000+ and not all of it is lower-income. What about the Ironbound, University Heights or parts of North Newark? Or the white-collar folks working downtown?

This is what is being overlooked in this discussion, i think. Theres a large customer base capable of supporting a Target, Best Buy, etc...not only in these neighborhoods but the surrounding communities and from the numerous people who work downtown. Throw in the arena and all the patrons it attracts and wouldnt it be nice, and expected, to have some higher-end retail. I know it takes time, but damn...and how many restaurants can the arena support lol

[NewarkDevil5]

You also increase the potential and visibility of Newark to outsiders, which can lead to investments in downtown.

Colin, I agree with your last post. But, my point is that it'd be nice if Newark were at the stage (which they should be with a $300 million+ arena) to attract nicer stores and residents downtown. So much investment has been made to the business district to the point where just bars/restaurants just cant be enough.

The $300 million arena wouldn't have been enough on its own in any case. It was part of years of developments. NJPAC, 744 Broad Street renovation, IDT, Newark Museum upgrades, Robert Treat Hotel revamp, Seton Hall Law School, One Newark Center, etc. All these as well as the arena have been working hard to turn around a city that had been on a very fast track towards becoming a broken down ghost city. For all that Sharpe James was and is a crook, he did do some fantastic things for downtown Newark during his tenure. The arena was the last project he accomplished. It along with all the other projects are what is starting to turn downtown around.

[NewarkDevil5]

This is what is being overlooked in this discussion, i think. Theres a large customer base capable of supporting a Target, Best Buy, etc...not only in these neighborhoods but the surrounding communities and from the numerous people who work downtown. Throw in the arena and all the patrons it attracts and wouldnt it be nice, and expected, to have some higher-end retail. I know it takes time, but damn...and how many restaurants can the arena support lol

Before you look for a Target and a Best Buy, it'd be nice to see a Shop Rite. Downtown needs to walk before it runs. Yes, there is a large underserviced community as well as a reasonably large underserviced commuter population, but with all of that, you need to build up that day to day customer who is willing to go into a Target on Broad Street (modified to be an urban store and not a massive parking lot with building in the middle that would kill the pedestrian flow) and buy some goods then walk them home to their apartment. That is who you're looking for, because the people who work in the office buildings and live in Short Hills would always rather to buy their goods at the Target in Short Hills because its more convenient. Besides, having a Target and a Best Buy doesn't make Newark any kind of destination shopping area. People go to cities to shop to get stuff they can't get at Target and Best Buy (because those stores are located everywhere, not just in cities). The types of places you'd want to see would be the equivalent of a J&R Music World or a Bloomingdales.

[devlman]

The $300 million arena wouldn't have been enough on its own in any case. It was part of years of developments. NJPAC, 744 Broad Street renovation, IDT, Newark Museum upgrades, Robert Treat Hotel revamp, Seton Hall Law School, One Newark Center, etc. All these as well as the arena have been working hard to turn around a city that had been on a very fast track towards becoming a broken down ghost city. For all that Sharpe James was and is a crook, he did do some fantastic things for downtown Newark during his tenure. The arena was the last project he accomplished. It along with all the other projects are what is starting to turn downtown around.

Your're right. However, many of those projects have been around a while. Yet, no high-end retail exists as yet. Hopefully with the arena establishing itself we will see a Shoprite, or something along those lines, soon. Til then, its bar/restaurant/bar/restaurant. And yes, Target isnt the best example but it serves the purpose of expresing higher-end retail thats unique to Newark and can possibly attract both outsiders AND locals.

Edited September 22, 2010 by devlman

[Marv4Life]

You will see a Target within or bordering the Downtown area before a Bloomingdales's or the like come in. It's not hard to lure in something like a Wal-Mart or Target, esp. when they are now trying to bring smaller stores to urban areas and Wal-Marts usually aren't looking for tax breaks, yet they provide a good amount of municipal revenue.

[Cachorro Louco]

Barnes & Nobles would be a great addition to that area. It's kind a "high end" retail but not to "high end" that most people in Newark would no dare to enter( it's a bookstore after all)

If they Barnes & Nobles like they have in Union Square in NYC for sure that store will lure people to came from most of the surrounding area, even if those areas have a Barnes & Noble within.

And now Barnes & Noble has the feature buy on-line pick-up on the store. Only problem seens to be it will become overcrowd with homeless at any given time.

[NewarkDevil5]

You will see a Target within or bordering the Downtown area before a Bloomingdales's or the like come in. It's not hard to lure in something like a Wal-Mart or Target, esp. when they are now trying to bring smaller stores to urban areas and Wal-Marts usually aren't looking for tax breaks, yet they provide a good amount of municipal revenue.

I'll be honest, I'd much rather a local business merely expands and alters its offerings of wares to where it fits a better clientele than bringing in some national giant like a Wal-Mart or Target. When I brought up stores like a J&R Music World, thats a store that only has one location, but is such a massive attraction that it brings people from all around to shop there for that type of goods. I'd much rather see a home grown new-age Bambergers than another cookie-cutter shop plopped down from pre-fab pieces in the middle of downtown.

If a couple of the stores that are already on Broad Street merely started to upgrade and were able to draw better clients by doing so, it would help with much of the change that people are looking for. Part of it though is a matter of economies of scale. J&R or B&H can do what they do because they know that the area they're in is such a high volume place with so many wealthy people walking through that they can pull off selling high-end electronics at discount prices. They don't add more locations because for the most part they don't need to and there aren't too many locations where they could pull of what they're doing at. The question is that whether or not the first ghetto-style shop that tries to sell better stuff can make a go of it. Because if they can't, it'll be a while before anyone else tries and then you'll be back to praying for Wal-Marts again.

Barnes & Nobles would be a great addition to that area. It's kind a "high end" retail but not to "high end" that most people in Newark would no dare to enter( it's a bookstore after all)

If they Barnes & Nobles like they have in Union Square in NYC for sure that store will lure people to came from most of the surrounding area, even if those areas have a Barnes & Noble within.

And now Barnes & Noble has the feature buy on-line pick-up on the store. Only problem seens to be it will become overcrowd with homeless at any given time.

I'd really like to see NJ Books take over the rest of their building on Market Street and redo the whole thing bottom to top as a multi-story mega-book store. Problem is that whether its Barnes & Nobles or Borders or the little guy on the corner, books aren't the money-maker they used to be. Barnes & Nobles has taken heavy hits from Amazon and the whole industry in general is taking a heavy hit from the fact that people overall are reading less. Its a shame, but its true.